Blood Sugar Question

Janet N

Member Since 2019
I am new to the board. My cat Maddi is on Lantus. He was diagnosed in July. His blood sugar has been high (400s - 600s). He has been on 2 units of Lantus. His blood sugar went down to 222 last night and 150 this morning. My vet said to not give him insulin this morning because he was lower so I skipped it. Around 1:15pm he started young to the litter box every 15 mins. I tested his sugar and it was 524. I fed him Fancy feast and gave him 2 units. Anyone else experience this happening? Waiting on the vet to call me. Any advice? What should I do when he gets down into the lower numbers?
 
I don’t have enough experience to give advice, but I definitely sympathize with you. My cat too is going in and out of shooting range. Good luck to you!
 
Bumping you up higher on the list. Edit: I see that @AEHawkeye just did that. Great.

I'm running out the door but wanted to bump you up, get some information, and give some information. Someone knowledgeable will respond before too long. DO NOT GIVE INSULIN AT THE NORMAL TIME TONIGHT.

When did you give the 2 units? Lantus is a depot insulin. It builds up in the system over time. You cannot give another shot for 12 hours after the shot given this afternoon. If you give a shot earlier, it's like giving one shot on top of another and acts like an increase/overdose. We can help you figure out how to get back on track.

Has there been mention by the vet of diabetic ketone acidosis (DKA)? This will affect what answers you will receive. The more information you can give us, the better.

What meter are you using?

It is obvious from the preshot 150 reading this morning that the 2 unit dose is too high, and makes me wonder how low he went during the night. (This is where a history of numbers and frequent testing comes in handy to help interpret - it is fantastic that you are testing and caught this number.) 2 units is a very high starting dose. The basic protocol is to start at 1 unit and increase in increments of 0.25 units. By increasing in large amounts, it is possible to skip past the right dosage.

The 524 you saw this afternoon is a "bounce" from the low 150 that Maddi's body is not used to. Below is the definition of a bounce.
  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
It was not necessary to give him insulin at that time. As the right dose is found, and as Maddi's body adjusts, the bouncing will become less. Lantus is based on the lowest numbers, not on the highest numbers.

It would help if you could give us what numbers you have for Maddi. If possible, set up a spreadsheet with what numbers you have. Instructions are here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/ There are spreadsheet gurus on the forum if you run into problems.

Hope this helps a bit while you are waiting. If you could answer the questions, that would be great.
 
Hi. I he did not have insulin this morning as the vet said not to give him insulin as he was at 150. That was at about 6:30am this morning. The night before that he was 222. This afternoon he was at 545. I fed him and then gave him 2 units of insulin at 5pm.

Up till about 48 hours ago he was in the high 400s-600s. He was on 3 units of insulin. Vet wanted to raise it to 4 units but I reduced it to two units instead. The past 48 hours he seemed to have lower blood sugar levels. He is eating Fancy feast pate. He is eating well. He drinking had slowed down until this afternoon. I was able to get a sample of his urine for the vet that will test it in the AM and she said she will give a shot of antibiotics if he tests positive for UTI. I don't think this is a bounce as he levels just came down in the past day or so. I will test him around 9pm tonight to see what his level is. If it's back lower, I will test again in the AM and give 1.5 instead. I test him AM before meal, PM before meal, PM after meal and a few hours after his PM shot.
 
Welcome to the group.

My first suggestion is that you read through the sticky notes at the top of the Board. There is an overwhelming amount of information about Lantus, dosing, and pretty much everything you will need to get you started. It will also be helpful if you could get a spreadsheet set up. This is the link to the instructions for setting up a spreadsheet. The spreadsheet will let you easily monitor Maddi's progress and allow us to see how your kitty is doing so we can offer help based on Maddi's numbers. We are very numbers driven!

It's important that you decide on how much insulin you want to give and stick with that dose for the requisite amount of time suggested by either of the dosing methods we use. Lantus dosing is based on the lowest number in the cycle and not on the pre-shot numbers. This is one of the major ways that Lantus (and Levemir) differ from other types of insulin.

It's great you've got Maddi on a canned cat food diet. As far as bringing the vet a urine sample, it's really not the best way to determine if your cat has a UTI. There are a ton of ways a sample taken at home can be contaminated and give you a false positive reading. You really need the vet to get a sample by drawing urine from Maddi's bladder with a needle (this is called a cystocentesis) and the urine sample is then cultured in order to determine what the bacteria is so the appropriate antibiotic can be prescribed. This is called a "culture and sensitivity."

You didn't mention when in July Maddi was diagnosed. This is a useful bit of information in that it takes about a week for the Lantus depot to form. Prior to the depot stabilizing, you may not see much of a change in Maddi's numbers. Depending on when you started Maddi on Lantus, this may be why you saw such a change in the numbers. Also, when numbers are high, it's likely Maddi is going to be drinking and urinating excessively. When you skipped the shot, that was likely the reason for the number of trips to the litter box.

In general, we don't start cats at much more than about 1.0u. (If following the Tight Regulation Protocol, the initial dose is based on your cat's ideal weight and for an average weight cat, it's about 1.0u.) We also change doses by 0.25u. You're vet is suggesting you increase by way too much. When starting out, if you are not able to monitor, we would have likely suggested that you either skip the shot or stall for a while to see if Maddi's numbers were going up. Once you have a bit more experience with managing your kitty's numbers, 150 is a very safe number to shoot. Many vets are uncomfortable with telling their clients to shoot lower numbers because most of their clients do not home test.

It actually is possible that it is a bounce. However, without being able to see Maddi's numbers on a spreadsheet and have a better sense of the pattern, I'm hesitant to say more. Bounces occur if a kitty's numbers drop low, drop lower than the cat is used to, or drop fast.

Please let us know if you have questions. The members here are very generous with their time and knowledge.
 
This afternoon he was at 545. I fed him and then gave him 2 units of insulin at 5pm.

We totally understand why you did this, but now you've locked yourself into shooting at 5am/5pm going forward.

Is that something you can do?

If not, you'll have to work your way back to your chosen shot times by adjusting by 15 minutes per cycle or 30 minutes per day until you're back where you want to be.

If you need some help getting our spreadsheet going for Maddi, feel free to shoot me a private message. It only takes me about 30 seconds to set one up once I have some information from you.

To send a private message just click on my name and choose "Start Conversation" and I'll be happy to help you out.
 
Thanks. He was diagnosed just after the 4th of July. His blood sugar is down to 260. He seems to be more comfortable now. He is resting and not hanging his head in the water bowl. Going to see the vet in the AM. As far as timing, I can handle it. I will see if I can get the spreadsheet setup tomorrow.
 
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