blood sugar 45!!!!

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Because she dropped to 45 tonight, her next dose should be reduced by either .25u or .5u.

If your vet's specialty is feline diabetes, and he prescribes Lantus, then he should be familiar with the protocols that are followed here, especially the Roomp/Rand tight regulation protocol. He should also understand that no dry food of any kind is ever appropriate for a diabetic cat.

You can give him these links, but he should already know about these vets:

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes Dr. Pierson is an expert on feline nutrition and feline diabetes.

http://felinediabetes.com/Roomp_Rand_2008 dosing_testing protocol.pdf That's a link to the study that resulted in the "tight regulation protocol" for Lantus that gives cats the best chance at remission. It indicates that her dose should be reduced by .25u going forward.

This is a link to another protocol used here, called the "start low, go slow" method.
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/SLGS.html That protocol indicates she should have her dose reduced by .5u going forward, although with Lantus you could elect to take a .25u reduction instead.

Carl
 
The initial Lantus dose formula: 15 lbs / 2.2 * 0.25 = 1.7 units

We don't know if the 45 was her nadir or not.

And after today/this week, she may be much more sensitive to insulin, so I'd round down to 1.5 or even to 1 unit.
 
G is on Lev, but if we saw this low a number on the current dose, I'd be inclined to cut it in half, let her settle in, and then gradually increase as you try to find the right dose per TR (tight regulation) guidelines. But the folks on Lantus TR will be able to offer much more wisdom.

As a side note, my vet treats a number of cats with FD. All of them are on ProZinc, where we started. But by taking info, and discussing, (after having researched and read), I was her first client to switch insulin. I still consult with her regularly, but I also get wisdom from those in the same boat, day in/ day out.

Wishing you luck in finding the right dose for your baby.

Lu-Ann
 
I missed the posts on page 2 before I posted my last message. BJ (2 posts back) has given you great advice. She's very experienced and you would be wise to heed her suggestion.
 
BJ posted on the Lantus board asking for some of us to stop by. I'm in Illinois, as well (Chicago). As far as I know, there really isn't a vet in the area who's a "specialist" in feline diabetes. There may be someone at the U of I vet school but there's no one in the metro Chicago area or suburbs that's a specialist.

I'd encourage you to take a look at the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Lantus board. There's a huge amount of information there that will help you to better understand Lantus and to maximize your use of this insulin. The links to the notes and a brief description is below:
  • Tight Regulation Protocol: This sticky contains the dosing protocol that we use here. There are also links to the more formal version -- the “Tilly” Protocol developed by the counterpart of this group in Germany, which was also published by Kirsten Roomp & Jacqui Rand, DVM in one of the top vet journals.
  • New to the Group: Everything you wanted to know about this forum and more. Info on our slang, FAQs, links to sites on feline nutrition and to food charts containing carb counts, how to do a curve and the components to look for, important aspects of diabetes such as ketones, DKA, and neuropathy, and most important, info on hypoglycemia.
  • Handling Lantus: how to get the maximum use from your insulin and what to not do with it!
  • Lantus depot: This is an important concept for understanding how Lantus works.
  • Lantus & Levemir: Shooting & Handling Low Numbers: What data you need in order to be able to work toward remission or tight regulation as well as information if you have a low pre-shot number or a drop into low numbers during the cycle.

Most of the prescription foods that are available do not contain high quality ingredients. If you look at what the composition of DM is, it is primarily meat by-products. There is very little muscle meat. For less than what it's costing you for DM, you can be feeding your cat a premium, human grade cat food (e.g., Wellness, EVO). if you want more information on feline nutrition, Lisa Pierson, DVM has an excellent website on this topic. She also has a food list that will give you a great number of choices when it comes to low carb (i.e., below 10% carb) food. (Most of us feed around 5%.) FWIW, most of us leave food out for our cats and/or feed several small meals throughout the day.

I'm glad you've decided to home test. It gives you a great deal of control over your cat's numbers and allows you to manage Lyla's diabetes effectively. Most of the people here keep their test data in a spreadsheet. The spreadsheet will allow you to keep track of Lyla's progress and see trends. It will also allow us to help you and provide input, if you feel that would be of use.

With Lyla's numbers dropping into the lower ranges, you should reduce her dose in the morning. Personally, I would suggest sticking with 2.5u twice a day.

Please let us know how we can help.
 
I know i should have but i didnt want to test her anymore tonight. We prick her paw and eAch time we tested we had to prick her almost 5 times or more each time. Im gonna take it again in the morning and i will post what it is. Again thank you to everyone!
 
My cat is officially in remission starting today - she's now a diet controlled diabetic. :mrgreen:
My vet told me to use DM wet and dry but based on the recommendations here, I only fed her Fancy Feast classics pates and Friskies pates.
DM is definitely not a magic bullet - other foods are just as good if not better.
 
Did you have difficulty testing on the ear? We've got lots of tips to help with that.

Meanwhile, you might check my signature link on Secondary Monitoring Tools for some additional ways to assess your cat.
 
Hi there

I know it was pretty crazy for you and Lyla the other day but I hope she is doing well now. In case you missed any of the advise people gave I am summarizing it for you below but especially, please let us know what issues you were having with home testing.

Heres a summary of what people said

1. You aren't feeding her enough so increase her wet food to at least 1 1/2 cans a day. Or two cans if you think she needs to regain weight. Then stop dry food altogether. To save money you could switch to the Fancy feast classic pates (~3 cans).
2. Change the dose to 2.5IU twice a day
3. Keep home testing and work with us to see if we can resolve the issues. Try these ear testing tips
4. Set up a spreadsheet so we can track results together
5. Buy urine testing ketone strips ( walmart Relion are $7)

Does that sound good?
Wendy
 
Thank you everyone again for all of your advice & input. Lyla is doing great. I took her to the vet today and they said to watch her glucose for the next three days & if its normal it means she doesn't need insulin anymore !! I took her to the vet because this afternoon a day and a half with no insulin her sugar was 69.
 
Actually we don't classify a cat as in remission and completely off insulin until they have stayed in normal numbers for 14 days with most of those in the double digits. Plus remember that just because Lyla may be now a diet controlled diabetic she is still diabetic, so she will never be able to go back to eating a high carb diet again.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Whatever you do Don't give her any dry.. The dry will spike her blood glucose and the diabetes will recur. Give her two cans of the purina canned a day.
 
Actually two 5.5oz cans a day for a cat isn't unheard of, I have one guy here that maintains a nice lean body weight on 2 (5.5oz) cans per day, but his lean body ideal weight is also 17lbs, he is a very long and tall fellow and very active for a 14 year old diet controlled diabetic.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Keep in mind that canned food is generally 70+% water, so the volume will be greater than the amount of dry that would have been fed previously.

You note that she is about 15.5 lbs from a high off 25 lbs, so 1 can of 5.5 oz per meal is probably accurate or even underfeeding.

Cat Info has more details on calorie requirements and weight management, as well as a PDF file you can print with nutritional information for a number of foods.
 
I used this calculation from Dr Lisa:

Required calories per day = [13.6 X ideal weight in lbs] + 70

based on 15.5lbs = 280cals. (assuming she wants to maintain this weight)

One 5.5oz can of Purina DM = 191 calories.
 
Sorry i havent posted been so busy lately. Lyla is doing really well. She is so
much happier And rarely ever grumpy anymore. Simce taking her to the vet on feb 18 I have been keeping up with checking her. My mom holds her and pricks her while i have a handful of treats feeding her and I get the blood on the strip. She doesnt even mind anymore having it checked. Yedterday her bs was 75. This was 2 hours after eating and she has been on no insulin. The vet says she is still overweight and I think that is why she isn't getting a lot of food. When i took her to the. vet last she was still 15.5lbs. With how nasty she was I would have never thought I would ever be able to home test her with no struggle!!
 
I'm glad to see that Lyla is doing so great! Zoni is a big cat too, and he eats a lot too. I think Zoni eats about two cans per day with a little bit of waste. I mix bottled water into it to get more water into him and keep it fresher longer, and he seems to like it that way. I have taken all the dry food completely away since his BG is down in a good range. Hoping they are both OTJ for good!!
 
Yay, sounds like another kitty OTJ.

To prevent any future problems, be careful never to give dry again, weigh her once a month, test weekly, keep an eye on her teeth for infection and dental issues, watch the litter box pee spots sizes, never give her steroids, and hopefully if there is an issue you will catch it early!
 
Yes i hope Zoni can stay off the insulin! & im always looking at the litter box spots but its hard to determine because i have three other cats now and sometimes they pee in the same spot so it makes a bigger spot. I still give her dry but only 1/4 cup a day. I never have to worry about her not drinking she loved to drink at her water bowl. But she isnt drinking all the time like she used to before i knew she was diabetic.
 
Also I will be testing weekly. She just had dental surgery 2 months ago and had most of her teeth removed & all her infections went away! She had multiple broken teeth in the back and abseces. I have no idea what the people she was with before but she obviously never had any dental care in her life before me. Could the reason for her not needing insulin anymore because all the infections are gone? Does that have anything to do with it?
 
Absolutely!
Infection raises glucose levels: removing infection, generally reduces glucose levels.
 
Lets just say, I have heard of kittys going OTJ soon after getting a dental. All those infections do raise the BGs.
 
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