Blood in urine, off to the vet

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stacia

Member Since 2014
I woke up to a mess from Tasha. Not only a bit of poo and considerable urine on the hardwoods (first time since we had them installed that she peed on them - I think it's a straining to poo thing), but then I checked the box and she had peed outside it. Given the light color of the floor in there, it was obvious that there was a LOT of blood in her urine. Negative for ketones though, unless I bought stupid strips.

So we're off to the vet in about 35 minutes. Anything specific I should ask? I realize that's not much time for anyone here to check in but I took the first available appointment.

Her numbers are all over the place. If the vet suggests an increase, I feel like I can't do it. She's not shootable half the time now (like last night). I've been sometimes giving thin doses now and need to pick up the u100 syringes again. Should we try another insulin?
 
If she has a UTI, that explains why her numbers have been erratic. You would like him to do a urine test that is sent out for results, not just one in the office, so the antibiotic fits the type of infection. We do not recommend Covina - the long lasting antibiotic shot - as if it causes problems, you can't get the medicine out of the cat.

Good luck!
 
Because you are using ProZinc, you may be able to shoot a sliding scale, ie low numbers get low doses, high numbers get higher doses. its one of the advantages of Prozinc to be able to "shoot what you see".

looking at the past week,
1 unit with 297 (high 200s) dropped the glucose to the low hundreds and the next pre-shot was near the mid-200s. That is one guideline.
0.5 units with a high 100s dropped the glucose to mid-100s; perhaps 0.75 units might work better there.
A guess: high 300s might work better with 1.25 units. You could test that out the next time the pre-shot is that high and get a nadir to see how that goes.

You'll still want to be cautious and not shoot below 150 mg/dL unless you have data showing that you can do that safely.
 
Dr. Lisa has great advice on UTIs:

From her website, www.catinfo.org
Urinary tract infections can occur anywhere along the tract from the kidneys to the urethra.  Most infections gain access to the bladder when bacteria travel up the urethra from the outside world.  From the bladder, the infection can ascend to the kidneys.

Please note that when the abbreviation "UTI" is used, the 'I' must be defined.  Does "I" mean infection?  Or does it mean inflammation?

It is very important to understand the difference if we are to stop overusing antibiotics and start using more pain medications when cats exhibit signs of urinary tract problems.

Studies have shown that otherwise healthy cats (no kidney disease, diabetes, or hyperthyroidism) - that are showing signs of urinary tract discomfort - have only a ~1-2% chance of having a UT infection yet antibiotics are prescribed very frequently for these patients.  The veterinary (as well as human) medical community needs to address this very serious problem involving the overuse/abuse of antibiotics.

Roughly 99% of these otherwise healthy cats have sterile (no infection) cystitis.  This is because the feline is very good at saving water to stay hydrated which results in a very concentrated urine. (Urine Specific Gravity (USG) >1.040)  Concentrated urine is a very hostile environment that does not readily support bacterial growth.  Therefore......

Urinary tract infections are rare in cats without a concurrent disease such as kidney insufficiency, diabetes, or hyperthyroidism.

What about the other population of cats with diseases such as kidney insufficiency, diabetes, or hyperthyroidism?  Cats with chronic kidney disease (CKD) and hyperthyroidism often produce a more dilute urine (USG <1.030) which is a friendlier environment for bacteria.  Unregulated diabetic cats often have glucose (sugar) in their urine which makes a nice culture medium for bacteria.

However, even cats with CKD, hyperthyroidism, or diabetes that are showing signs of lower urinary tract disease have a less than 30% chance of having a urinary tract infection.  (Several studies have been done in this area and the results have varied but all have shown less than 30%.)  This fact illustrates why it is very important to run a culture and sensitivity.

Urine Culture and Sensitivity (C & S)

As described above in the Cystitis section, this is a two-part test that is used to check to see if an infection is present (culture) and what antibiotic(s) would be the most appropriate to use for the strain(s) of bacteria present (sensitivity). 

Please note that I emphasized "if" in the previous sentence.  It is very important to confirm that an infection actually exists rather than to subject your cat to the administration of an unnecessary, and potentially dangerous, antibiotic without proof that it is needed and is the correct one.

Culture results are reported over a period of 3 days - at a minimum.  The typical sterile cystitis report will read:

24 hours - no growth

48 hours - no growth

72 hours - no growth

If there is an infection present, the report will read something like "moderate growth of e.coli - sensitivity pending."  This means that the next report will give your veterinarian important information necessary to pick the best antibiotic for your cat's infection.

Cultures can be classified in 3 ways: 

1) diagnostic - the initial culture before starting antibiotics to confirm that an infection is present and to identify the bacteria, assess the number of bacterial colonies to quantify the level of infection (cfu - colony forming units per milliliter of urine), and to determine the organisms' susceptibility to various antibiotics

2) therapeutic - performed 3-5 days after starting antibiotics (after a positive diagnostic culture) to assess antibiotic efficacy or it is sometimes performed 3-5 days before cessation of antibiotic administration

3) surveillance - performed 7-14 days after the last antibiotic dose to check for relapse or re-infection

Relapses are defined as recurrences caused by the same species and strain of microorganism that were found in the diagnostic culture within several weeks of stopping antibiotic therapy.

Re-infections are defined as recurrent UT infections caused by a different organism. The only way you can differentiate relapses from re-infections is to compare the results of the initial culture obtained prior to antibiotic usage to those of cultures obtained during and/or after discontinuation of the antibiotic.

Relapses represent antibiotic treatment failures that may result from improper antibiotic choice, dose and duration of therapy, lack of owner or patient compliance, failure of the patient to absorb an orally administered drug, deep-seated infections, failure to identify predisposing factors, or acquired drug resistance.

Re-infections, on the other hand, usually represents failure to recognize and eliminate predisposing factors associated with continuing dysfunction of host defenses, or UT infections caused by procedures such as catheterization or perineal urethrostomy (PU) surgery. Frequent re-infection is an absolute indication to evaluate the patient for anatomic, metabolic, and immunologic disorders that may compromise normal host defenses.

It is important to understand that when a cat has had his penis amputated (PU surgery) a vital barrier to infection has been removed.

For a patient's first time infection, therapeutic and surveillance cultures are not usually performed due to cost and added stress for the patient.  However, they should be considered in all recurrent UT infection cases, otherwise the veterinarian and owner may find themselves running in circles.

To repeat an important point:  Cats with a urine specific gravity above ~1.040 have a very low chance (~1-2%) of having a urinary tract infection.

Cats with a USG below ~1.030 have a higher chance of having an infection.

If a patient presents with lower urinary tract signs, and has a low urine specific gravity or is a diabetic cat that is spilling sugar in his urine, and if an in-house analysis of the urine indicates that an infection may be present, the patient may be started on a broad spectrum antibiotic pending the C & S result.

If the culture turns up negative, the antibiotic can be discontinued.  Or if the culture comes up positive but shows that the bacteria are resistant to the antibiotic that has been chosen, the correct antibiotic can be started.

At least in these cases, the needless - or wrong - antibiotic will have been given for only 3 days instead of for a much longer period of time.

 
 
They tried to get a sterile culture to send out but Tasha spazzed and peed all over herself instead as soon as they took her to the back room and put the alcohol on her to even start. But from what they saw there (definite blood, cloudiness, high white blood cells), plus the crazy bouncing of Tasha's BG numbers, the doctor prescribed an antibiotic.

I see that she may not have an infection and even if she does, this may not be the right antibiotic (I went through this with my non-sugar, Ripley, and it took culturing and getting the right antibiotic to fix it) but Tasha won't let them get a sterile sample to culture, what do we do?

In the meantime, I'll try the sliding scale. I've been really reluctant to do that, if I'm honest, because I have it in my head that I shouldn't be adjusting based on just one reading. And the doctor was giving me a hard time again today asking "when we say one unit, are we really saying one unit? You aren't using those other syringes, are you?!?!" It's called math, lady!!!

So, that's where we are. I don't feel confident about being sent home with an antibiotic but I'm honestly not sure what else they could do considering Tasha's misbehavior. It was horrifying.
 
Is she overgrooming or worrying at her hindquarters at all, Stacia? If there's no improvement, it might not be a bad idea to get an ultrasound to check that she doesn't have bladder stones.
 
She doesn't seem to be. She's grooming right now from where she peed all over herself at the vet's office but otherwise just normal grooming. She's also drinking and eating fine - not over much on either. Not yowling as much as she had been. Overall, acting really well.
 
Not had a peeing-all-over-the-place at the vets but Saoirse did do a spectacular hurl recently. :oops:

Poor Tasha. Wonder if the urinary problem might have been affecting her mood with the sitter as well. :-|
 
In the meantime, I'll try the sliding scale. I've been really reluctant to do that, if I'm honest, because I have it in my head that I shouldn't be adjusting based on just one reading. And the doctor was giving me a hard time again today asking "when we say one unit, are we really saying one unit? You aren't using those other syringes, are you?!?!" It's called math, lady!!!

Sliding scales work well for some cats, not as well for others. The only way to know is to try it. And you aren't really basing it on one number. You're basing the dose on the data you've gotten when you've given a dose at that preshot. So, for example, if giving one unit takes the kitty too low when given at 230, but just low enough when given at 440, you use that data to give less than one unit in the 200s and one unit in the 400s.

And really, using the U100 syringes and the conversion chart with a U40 insulin is exactly about math. :mrgreen:
 
So speaking of the sitter, she's scheduled to be here in 2 hours. Tasha was 401 this morning, which seemed high for AMPS so I retested and got 350. I gave 1u. I just tested, ready to head out the door and text the sitter to do her thing, and Tasha's at 110. Is there any way that's going to be shootable in 2ish hours?
 
Sorry, we're at +9.5. Cat sitter would inject between +11.5 and +12 without testing first.
 
You may want to go with a token dose, for safety - maybe 0.25 units.

Better too high for a day han too low for a moment. The former causes problems long-term; the latter can kill quickly.
 
Ok, thanks. So I guess the question is whether or not I cancel the sitter or trust her to do the reduced dose. I wasn't going anywhere - I was literally leaving the house for the sake of the sitter coming in to dose the cat. I think I'll maybe retest her at +10.5 and see how far she's risen, maybe draw the dose myself? Or maybe I'll see if the sitter can come Thursday instead. I don't feel right screwing around with this just for the sake of trying to make Tasha and the sitter play nice.
 
I've called off the sitter (much to her relief, I'm sure) and will stay home with Tasha tonight. I'll get a true PMPS and most likely give a reduced dose based on that. I was confident she could be injected tonight based on that high reading this morning but it seems this UTI and the antibiotics are really screwing with her. Dear girl...
 
We're at +12, theoretically PMPS, and she's only 124. Stall? Token dose? She's barely come up at all in almost 2.5 hours.
 
You can stall and see if she really jumps up nearer 200, but I'd guess it'll be at least an hour or more. I think I'd skip. If she is on antibiotics, it can mean a lowering of glucose levels as her infection clears.
 
I was sidetracked with other things - honestly, I can't believe the kitties allowed it without feeding them - so I just checked her at +13 and she'd only gone up to 126. So we're skipping tonight. She's worn me out emotionally, no way am I fit to deal with a hypo while I'm home by myself this evening. I'm not even going to risk a drop of insulin in little miss crazypants.

Thanks for the support, everyone. That means in almost 4 hours, she's only gone from 110 to 126. But she's enjoying dinner!
 
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