Blaze diagnosed 8/16/2019

[Chris & China (GA)]

Since I was tagged, I'm here but I may have missed some information so if I repeat something, just ignore it.

1st...it's good that you have the bigger lancets and it will really help. As you poke more and more, the ears grow in new capillaries to help heal the "injury" and it becomes easier and easier to get blood. We call it "learning to bleed".

With Blaze running in the 400's and the reduced dose of Novolin, I'd hurry up and get the dry food out of the picture. Just watch for signs of tummy troubles....if they crop up, slow down, but you can usually swap out 25% per day as long as it doesn't cause diarrhea

Have you considered using a different insulin? We've had some cats do OK on Novolin, but there are some much better choices like Lantus, Basaglar, Levemir and Prozinc. They are much gentler and last longer too.

Did your vet actually test for pancreatitis? Or just say they thought there was some involved? There's a blood test that needs to be sent out but it'll give you a better answer. Here's a Primer on Pancreatitis that will give you more information that you could need to know!

If you can't test in between the AM and PM shots due to work, it's even more important that you get tests on the PM cycle…..Yes, feline diabetes tends to come with a lack of sleep!!….LOL

Getting our spreadsheet going will also really help. We're very data-driven here and really depend on it. If you need some help getting it set up, I'd be happy to help. Just click on my name and choose "Start Conversation" to send me a private message so I can get some information.

You can access the spreadsheet on both your iPad and PC ….since it's a Google document, it automatically saves your entries as you make them on any device.

 

[Sarah and Blaze]

Since I was tagged, I'm here but I may have missed some information so if I repeat something, just ignore it.

1st...it's good that you have the bigger lancets and it will really help. As you poke more and more, the ears grow in new capillaries to help heal the "injury" and it becomes easier and easier to get blood. We call it "learning to bleed".

With Blaze running in the 400's and the reduced dose of Novolin, I'd hurry up and get the dry food out of the picture. Just watch for signs of tummy troubles....if they crop up, slow down, but you can usually swap out 25% per day as long as it doesn't cause diarrhea

Have you considered using a different insulin? We've had some cats do OK on Novolin, but there are some much better choices like Lantus, Basaglar, Levemir and Prozinc. They are much gentler and last longer too.

Did your vet actually test for pancreatitis? Or just say they thought there was some involved? There's a blood test that needs to be sent out but it'll give you a better answer. Here's a Primer on Pancreatitis that will give you more information that you could need to know!

If you can't test in between the AM and PM shots due to work, it's even more important that you get tests on the PM cycle…..Yes, feline diabetes tends to come with a lack of sleep!!….LOL

Getting our spreadsheet going will also really help. We're very data-driven here and really depend on it. If you need some help getting it set up, I'd be happy to help. Just click on my name and choose "Start Conversation" to send me a private message so I can get some information.

You can access the spreadsheet on both your iPad and PC ….since it's a Google document, it automatically saves your entries as you make them on any device.

I’m not 100% sure if the vet tested for pancreatitis, this is a photo of everything that was done when I brought him in, plus the two meds at the bottom that were prescribed. When I went to pick him up, the vet and said he had liver inflammation and pancreatitis. I can call tomorrow and see if they can confirm the pancreatitis diagnosis or not and post when I get that information. They did do bloodwork and when I called to check on him, they had told me they were waiting for a few more blood test results to come back so I’m wondering if it was for pancreatitis testing.

As for the dry food, right now I’m mixing a little bit into his wet food and then leaving some out during the day while I’m at work. Should I just leave less and less dry food out every day until I’m not leaving any out and only feeding wet food? And if so, is feeding him wet food twice a day enough food for him?

I’m definitely open to trying a different insulin, I’ve just been so overwhelmed with starting Blaze on insulin, I just went with what he was prescribed. We are only on day 3 of insulin, the first 2 days were 2U twice a day, and today I did 1U. I take him back on 8/30 for bloodwork again, should I talk to my vet then about switching him to another type of insulin?

I’m going to work on getting my spreadsheet started so I have more info share !

 

[Idjit's mom]

Just for our information, when you test next will you post please.
And provide the times/dates and BG of the other tests you have so far so we don't have to scroll back through past posts to find them. Just until the ss is up and we can see that.

I love the pic, he looks very happy and contented. Smooches from Auntie Lou.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

is feeding him wet food twice a day enough food for him?

You can add extra water to canned food and it will keep it from drying out during the day or a lot of people make "food-sicles" by adding water to canned and then freezing it in ice cube trays to leave out for a "fresh" meal later.

It's better for him to eat multiple small meals but as long as you're on Novolin, he needs to eat a normal sized meal about 30 minutes before the insulin because it's harsher and tends to hit hard.

I would definitely ask for another insulin....Novolin is great for dogs, but cats have a higher metabolism and it just doesn't work as well

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Like Chris, I'd be curious about whether the vet actually tested for pancreatitis (snap test or lab bloodwork) or was simply meaning it was a possibility due to what she saw on the US. I don't see a link to a photo of the bloodwork done in your post above.

Pancreatitis like any inflammation/infection can elevate BG levels but reducing the insulin dose right now will not aggravate pancreatitis. Given Blaze is eating fine, showing no signs of pain, no vomiting etc. it doesn't sound like Blaze is in the midst of a pancreatitis flare.

ETA I guess the pic got posted while I was typing. OOOPs!

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

@Chris & China (GA) , thanks for answering the tag! Great info and advice as usual.

One thing about getting the dry food out of the picture: since Sarah works during the week and can't usually monitor closely, I was thinking that having the dry food out to graze on for a few days would be prudent. Just until we have a little more data to know where Blaze's numbers are typically, and what the Novolin is doing for him.

Sarah, looks like they ordered a pancreatitis test (Spec fPL), but it's the one that usually has to be sent out for analysis. Pancreatitis can only really be treated sympomatically, so if he's eating and drinking normally and doesn't seem to be in pain, that's good and I wouldn't worry about that specifically until the test comes back.

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

You can call the vet and ask for a copy of the lab results. Well within your rights to do so. And good to keep for your own records so you can look back over time.

 

[Sarah and Blaze]

Just for our information, when you test next will you post please.
And provide the times/dates and BG of the other tests you have so far so we don't have to scroll back through past posts to find them. Just until the ss is up and we can see that.

I love the pic, he looks very happy and contented. Smooches from Auntie Lou.

Yes. As of 12:00 pm today he was at 448 when I tested his BG. And when I got home from work at 5:00 pm, I tested again and for 415 BG. I then fed him and gave 1U on insulin at 6:00pm. I will test again around 9:00pm and am going to work on my spreadsheet after dinner so more info is available.

 

[Sarah and Blaze]

You can call the vet and ask for a copy of the lab results. Well within your rights to do so. And good to keep for your own records so you can look back over time.

That’s a good idea, I will call tomorrow and ask for that! Thank you!

 

[Sarah and Blaze]

You can add extra water to canned food and it will keep it from drying out during the day or a lot of people make "food-sicles" by adding water to canned and then freezing it in ice cube trays to leave out for a "fresh" meal later.

It's better for him to eat multiple small meals but as long as you're on Novolin, he needs to eat a normal sized meal about 30 minutes before the insulin because it's harsher and tends to hit hard.

I would definitely ask for another insulin....Novolin is great for dogs, but cats have a higher metabolism and it just doesn't work as well

Oh I like the idea of the food icesickles, I’m going to try that for when I’m at work. Thank you!

I have been feeding him 30 minutes to an hour before his insulin too because people say this insulin is harsher and kicks in quicker.

And I will ask for a different insulin when I take him in on the 30th. Are the other insulin’s available at wal-mart? That’s where I got the Novolin and was told they have the cheapest prices.

 

[Sarah and Blaze]

Like Chris, I'd be curious about whether the vet actually tested for pancreatitis (snap test or lab bloodwork) or was simply meaning it was a possibility due to what she saw on the US. I don't see a link to a photo of the bloodwork done in your post above.

Pancreatitis like any inflammation/infection can elevate BG levels but reducing the insulin dose right now will not aggravate pancreatitis. Given Blaze is eating fine, showing no signs of pain, no vomiting etc. it doesn't sound like Blaze is in the midst of a pancreatitis flare.

ETA I guess the pic got posted while I was typing. OOOPs!

They did not give me a copy of his bloodwork results but I will call and ask for it. The vet didn’t say much except that he has some pancreatitis, but didn’t tell me how to monitor it and didn’t prescribe anything for it. She said she couldn’t give him any steroids because of the pancreatitis.

He seems to be doing pretty good. Eating well, no signs of pain, no vomiting, he purrs when I pet him and seems happy.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Are the other insulin’s available at wal-mart? That’s where I got the Novolin and was told they have the cheapest prices.

Lantus, Basaglar (a bio-similar of Lantus..same basic insulin glargine) and Levemir are human insulins, so yes, they'd be available at WalMart, but that's not the cheapest place. A 5 pack of Lantus pens runs about $450 here.

Most of us are buying our insulin from Canada because it's 1/3 to 1/2 the price. A 5 pack of Lantus pens is $165 plus $25 shipping....that's 1500 units which is enough to last most cats at least a year...and many cats up to 2 years! Basaglar is even cheaper! That makes it about $8-10 a month for insulin which is down right cheap!

Here's the Information on buying insulin from Canada

It does take about a week for the first shipment to arrive, so it might be worth the phone call to see if your vet will even prescribe it. If they will, get a written script and you can take a picture of it to send to Marks Marine Pharmacy.

If money is an issue, you can contact Diabetic Cats In Need. They help low income caregivers with costs of treatment so they can stay in their loving homes instead of euthanizing or sending to a shelter due to cost concerns. You can PM me for more details if you want to.

 

[Sarah and Blaze]

Lantus, Basaglar (a bio-similar of Lantus..same basic insulin glargine) and Levemir are human insulins, so yes, they'd be available at WalMart, but that's not the cheapest place. A 5 pack of Lantus pens runs about $450 here.

Most of us are buying our insulin from Canada because it's 1/3 to 1/2 the price. A 5 pack of Lantus pens is $165 plus $25 shipping....that's 1500 units which is enough to last most cats at least a year...and many cats up to 2 years! Basaglar is even cheaper! That makes it about $8-10 a month for insulin which is down right cheap!

Here's the Information on buying insulin from Canada

It does take about a week for the first shipment to arrive, so it might be worth the phone call to see if your vet will even prescribe it. If they will, get a written script and you can take a picture of it to send to Marks Marine Pharmacy.

If money is an issue, you can contact Diabetic Cats In Need. They help low income caregivers with costs of treatment so they can stay in their loving homes instead of euthanizing or sending to a shelter due to cost concerns. You can PM me for more details if you want to.

Money isn't an issue, I just can't afford to pay and arm and a leg every month is all, but want what's best for Blaze. The generic version of Novolin was $30 at Wal-Mart, but that is supposed to be good for 30 days. I am going to talk to my vet about getting him on a different insulin when I take him in for his bloodwork on the 30th. I want to get comfortable with everything right now, testing BG, feeding and giving insulin but I want to switch him to a better insulin soon so once I talk to my vet, I will PM you about more details. Should I ask for a specific brand of insulin to switch him to?

What are Lantus pens? And do they not expire or go bad after a certain length of time?

 

[Sarah and Blaze]

Is anyone able to help me with my spreadsheet? I created it, got it linked to my signature and now I don't know how to find it/add data to it. If I click the link in my signature, it opens the spreadsheet but does not let me add data to it. Am I missing something?

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Sarah, you have to access your spreadsheet through Google drive/sheets not through the link in your signature. The link in your signature is for view only and it doesn't recognize you as the owner entitled to make changes.

 

[Idjit's mom]

Sarah, when you have time look at this: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...info-proper-handling-drawing-fine-dosing.151/
Scroll down for pictures of vials and pens. Members use the pens as a mini vial, with a syringe, that way they can dose finer than 1 Unit increments.

Most members use the insulin in the pen to the last drop, they keep it refrigerated after opening. The vial contains so much more insulin that even refrigerated only lasts about 6 months, then it begins to lose effectiveness, and it's a waste because most kitties need such small doses.

When Idjit was diagnosed the vet prescribed Lantus in a vial and helped us research there at the clinic the best price. Now we knew nothing about buying insulin or even that pens existed. So we spent almost $300 on a vial. Idjit was on insulin for 11 days, and I kept the vial in the fridge cause I was afraid the remission wouldn't last long and I would need it. It's been 15 months. We had to discard that almost full vial and it just made me sick. We are a couple of seniors on Social Security with a small pension. I wish I had known about options before running out and buying that Lantus.

 

[Sarah and Blaze]

Sarah, you have to access your spreadsheet through Google drive/sheets not through the link in your signature. The link in your signature is for view only and it doesn't recognize you as the owner entitled to make changes.

I found it and figured it out, thank you!

 

[Sarah and Blaze]

Sarah, when you have time look at this: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...info-proper-handling-drawing-fine-dosing.151/
Scroll down for pictures of vials and pens. Members use the pens as a mini vial, with a syringe, that way they can dose finer than 1 Unit increments.

Most members use the insulin in the pen to the last drop, they keep it refrigerated after opening. The vial contains so much more insulin that even refrigerated only lasts about 6 months, then it begins to lose effectiveness, and it's a waste because most kitties need such small doses.

When Idjit was diagnosed the vet prescribed Lantus in a vial and helped us research there at the clinic the best price. Now we knew nothing about buying insulin or even that pens existed. So we spent almost $300 on a vial. Idjit was on insulin for 11 days, and I kept the vial in the fridge cause I was afraid the remission wouldn't last long and I would need it. It's been 15 months. We had to discard that almost full vial and it just made me sick. We are a couple of seniors on Social Security with a small pension. I wish I had known about options before running out and buying that Lantus.

Oh my gosh, that's awful. That's what I'm afraid of, having to throw it out since they say Novolin is only good in the fridge for 30 days.
So Lantus in a pen is most cost effective because you're getting more insulin at a cheaper price? And in the pen, it can last longer? I just want to make sure I understand all of this, sorry for dumb questions.

 

[Idjit's mom]

Not dumb at all, no way. Yes the pens are more cost effective. The exp date on the pens is usually about a year or possibly more out.

From that link I just provided:

• The manufacturer of Lantus recommends discarding the insulin after 28 days of use. However, with proper handling and refrigeration, many Lantus users have been able to use a vial/cartridge/pen for six months and longer. Some use pens and vials to the last drop.
• The manufacturer of Basaglar recommends discarding after 28 days of use. It's too new to know for sure, but we anticipate Basaglar to last as long as Lantus with proper handling and refrigeration.
• The manufacturer of Levemir recommends discarding the insulin after 42 days of use. However, with proper handling and refrigeration, many Levemir users have been able to use a vial/pen for six months and longer. Some have used pens and vials to the last drop.

 

[Sarah and Blaze]

Wow, that's amazing! I'm going to talk to my vet about prescribing Lantus, sounds much better price wise and how long it lasts AND better for Blaze. Thank you Lou!

I tried BG testing before bed just now, I attempted 5 times and was unsuccessful all 5 times. I wasn't getting enough blood. I feel defeated. I feel bad continuously poking over and over with no results. When do you say enough is enough and try again in the morning? I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong but I'm not getting enough blood. I either don't get enough blood for it to register or I get the E13 code which says, not enough blood. I wish I could get this down so I could track his BG levels. Feeling frustrated. Is it okay to let him be for the night and test again before feeding him tomorrow?

 

[Idjit's mom]

yes, let the little guy rest, and you too! It's hard at first, the ears actually need to "learn" to bleed. The more you poke, more capillaries form to heal the "injury". Warming the ear really helps. We use a cotton sock with raw rice heated in the microwave for about 15 seconds. Test on your wrist like with a baby bottle contents to be sure it's not too hot. I used to rub it all over his face and between his ears too, he would start purring. I hold it on the edge of the ear I'm using, kind of fold it over or stroke with it.

It just takes time and practice.

 

[Sarah and Blaze]

yes, let the little guy rest, and you too! It's hard at first, the ears actually need to "learn" to bleed. The more you poke, more capillaries form to heal the "injury". Warming the ear really helps. We use a cotton sock with raw rice heated in the microwave for about 15 seconds. Test on your wrist like with a baby bottle contents to be sure it's not too hot. I used to rub it all over his face and between his ears too, he would start purring. I hold it on the edge of the ear I'm using, kind of fold it over or stroke with it.

It just takes time and practice.

Gosh I feel so bad poking him so much, it’s definitely hard. I know today is my first day testing but I figured after getting two successful tests earlier today, I would be able to get one before bed. I have been trying to rub his ear to warm it up but I don’t think it’s working and he’s not a fan of it. I’m going to try the rice in a sock. I definitely need more time and practice, it’s just a bummer because I know how important those BG tests are. Thank you for the kind words of encouragement. I will try again in the morning

 

[Idjit's mom]

Here a thread recently about ordering from Canada
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/troubles-with-shipping-lantus-from-canada-to-us.218224/

I also think I remember reading another thread that some vets don't want to fax a prescription to a Canadian pharmacy. But you can get a written script and mail it or take a picture of it and email that. I will try to find that information. just haven't been able to locate it yet. I will search a little longer tonight and keep looking around tomorrow.

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

FYI - Your Novolin will last longer than 30 days if kept in the fridge. Not sure where the 30 days came from because Novolin N has been tested for 42 days by the manufacturer. The manufacturers only test insulin for a certain period of time because they are testing it for human who take far larger doses and go through it much faster than we do with cats. If stored correctly, it should be fine for up to 3 months. Watch for any precipitating or cloudiness in the vial and obviously if you suddenly start seeing higher BG levels, that could signify the insulin is losing potency.

On the testing front, with Blaze's black fur, it may be you are getting enough blood but it's disappearing into his fur. Been there, done that. Put a small skim of Vaseline on the ear where you intend to poke. This helps the blood bead up making it easier to see on those dark ears rather than smearing into the fur. The other trick you can use is to catch the blood bead on a clean finger nail and test from there. This is particularly helpful if you have a kitty who likes to swing their head around just as you are trying to get the strip into the blood bead.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

The manufacturer of Lantus says it's only good for 28 days...You want to know why? Because they only asked the FDA to test it for 28 days so legally, they have to tell you that!!

A 5 pack of Lantus pens will last most cats at least a year...that's 1500 units. Each pen holds 300 units ….so if you keep them in the fridge, you should be able to use every drop from each pen and the box usually has an expiration date that's at least 2 years away. You can continue to use it until then!

 

[Idjit's mom]

@MrWorfMen's Mom Linda, do you remember reading posts in a thread about getting a script from vet that doesn't want to provide to a Canadian pharmacy? I remember reading about it just recently, and of course can't find it. Insulin is so expensive here, thanks to Big Pharma, and members had suggestions to ask for a paper script, say they will shop around for best price at different venues and then send it by mail or take a photo and send it. I know that once Marks has the Rx they will refill w/o having to have a new script.

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

The vet is legally obligated to provide a script if asked. Tell them you want to shop around for best price so need a paper script....don't say you are going to order from Canada. If you tell them you are going to order from out of country which technically is illegal, they can use that as an excuse not to provide the paper script. I would also ask for a script for syringes with half unit markings if obtaining syringes requires a prescription in California. Customs turns a blind eye to insulin from Canada. We even have caravans from the US come up here to get their insulin making the news so it's not like it's being done under cover.

 

[Idjit's mom]

Gosh I feel so bad poking him so much, it’s definitely hard. I know today is my first day testing but I figured after getting two successful tests earlier today, I would be able to get one before bed. I have been trying to rub his ear to warm it up but I don’t think it’s working and he’s not a fan of it. I’m going to try the rice in a sock. I definitely need more time and practice, it’s just a bummer because I know how important those BG tests are. Thank you for the kind words of encouragement. I will try again in the morning

OMG Sarah, if you had seen us when we began testing you would laugh your behind off. DH puts the lancing device together and inserts the lancet, while I set up the meter and strip. DH gets cat and sits in his chair in the living room, I am trying to see where the edge of the ear is, but DH's big fat stupid head is blocking the light. Meter times out. So, DH moves to a chair in front of the living room window, I reset meter and strip..I am bent over trying to see the edge of the ear and Again, DH's "self" is blocking the light. I aim, get to the edge of the ear and the lancing device falls apart in my hand! It's a wonder DH lived through that event.

No test that time. We moved to the kitchen, DH and cat facing the over the sink light and a window..everything on the counter where I can reach it and a warmed rice bag this time. It took 2 pokes and we got a drop in time before the meter timed out. We weren't always successful, we still aren't and sometimes I have to start over on the other ear. Don't feel bad, you get to have a shirt and belong to the failed BG test club like the rest of us. Live, laugh and learn!

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Ok so one last piece of advice that I think needs to be in our helpful hints....

I once got dressed to go out in a nice white outfit. As per my usual routine, I decided to do one more blood test before going out. My girl was a pro at testing by then and was usually very co-operative and still. Not so this day. She promptly decided to fling her head around just as the blood beaded up spraying blood hither and yon all over my white clothes. Needless to say, I was late arriving at my social event with a funny tale to tell!

Lesson learned......test cat THEN put on your going out clothes!

 

[Idjit's mom]

Also, tomorrow morning, start a new thread with the title Blaze AMPS (the test result)
Then you can make comments in the message window if you like. You can edit the title with subsequent tests (+ the hour past the shot like +6) and then add messages. This thread it getting pretty long now. We encourage one new thread a day.

 

[Sarah and Blaze]

yes, let the little guy rest, and you too! It's hard at first, the ears actually need to "learn" to bleed. The more you poke, more capillaries form to heal the "injury". Warming the ear really helps. We use a cotton sock with raw rice heated in the microwave for about 15 seconds. Test on your wrist like with a baby bottle contents to be sure it's not too hot. I used to rub it all over his face and between his ears too, he would start purring. I hold it on the edge of the ear I'm using, kind of fold it over or stroke with it.

It just takes time and practice.

Here a thread recently about ordering from Canada
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/troubles-with-shipping-lantus-from-canada-to-us.218224/

I also think I remember reading another thread that some vets don't want to fax a prescription to a Canadian pharmacy. But you can get a written script and mail it or take a picture of it and email that. I will try to find that information. just haven't been able to locate it yet. I will search a little longer tonight and keep looking around tomorrow.

Okay great; thank you so much!