Black Kitty - update

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Sandy and Black Kitty

Member Since 2009
Something is up with BKs liver and possibly his kidney function.
BK has also lost more weight - he is just over 8lbs. very boney.
Here is a comparison of his most recent bloodwork vs. the previous results.

The vet suggested x-ray and possible ultra sound of liver
She also wants to check and see if he is concentrating urine.
I asked about liver support and she said we could try denamarin.


All Ps are and have been in place appy is good.
Regularly gives Little Man Jake (his 11 lb young whippersnapper roomie) a beat down, as needed :cool:

Thoughts?
 
From the chart it appears that the creatinine went down rather than up if kidneys were getting worse. You don't list the number for it and the BUN. Only from my experience when I see elevated ALT and weight loss I suspect pancreatitis. That was the early sign for Max. Have you run a spec fPL? When Max was first diagnosed one vet wanted exploratory surgery and the other ran the fPL and it was pancreatitis. That was over 5 years ago and no surgery was done.
 
I agree with Elise's suggestion. If it's not cost prohibitive, I'd agree to the US and x-ray, as well. I am a firm believer in gathering as much info as possible. I do think it's a good sign that he's eating well and behaving normally. Sending lots of good vines BK's way!
 
J.D. was on Denamarin for years. He was on it for possible dementia, as he used to yowl and act lost sometimes. It helped with that.
Sending healing vines to Black Kitty.
 
I agree with Elise's suggestion. If it's not cost prohibitive, I'd agree to the US and x-ray, as well. I am a firm believer in gathering as much info as possible. I do think it's a good sign that he's eating well and behaving normally. Sending lots of good vines BK's way!
The eating well makes pancreatitis less likely but stranger things have happened. I might also ask to run the blood tests again in a couple of weeks in case things come back down. If pancreatitis had been an issue but corrected itself the appetite would return to normal. Don't you feel like a detective? I wish they could talk. English I mean!
 
Is there any chance BK has been eating something he shouldn't? The liver is the organ that detoxifies everything. If he was munching or something in the realm of "not good for a cat", it might be effecting his liver values.
 
So a creatinine of 1.6 does not mean kidney disease. At the recheck visit you might consider a urinalysis to see how well the urine is being concentrated. I don't think CKD is the issue at all. A cat eating a high protein diet will often have a high BUN, again nothing to worry about. Were the labs done on a fast? I doubt it and with a diabetic cat I wouldn't do that. Thus some numbers will be elevated due just to that reason. The USG will help confirm my suspicions that the kidneys are okay.
 
Neptune?

Sandy, I'm happy to hear that BK is feeling well, but I'm sorry he is losing weight.

The elevated liver enzymes make me think that his liver is not very happy. I would opt to have the abdominal ultrasound to investigate the liver, and the rest of the abdomen. You could also ask the vet about a bile acids test. I was told that this is the best test to evaluate liver function.

I think that elevated monocytes can be an indicator of inflammation. I'm not sure about the significance of elevated bicarbonate.

When evaluating the kidneys you do want to know how well he is concentrating his urine as part of the overall picture, so a urinalysis to evaluate his urine specific gravity is a good idea.

Keep us updated about how he is doing!
 
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Hi Sandy,
I hope that your vet will do those other procedures so that a better picture might emerge with regard to what may be wrong.

Rusty is in a similar situation: loss of weight, but otherwise good and all of his test values and urinalysis values were good except for GGT, which had been 0 and now is 4. The liver/gall bladder was suspected. But he had the bile assay test, which is bile/liver specific, and it was completely normal. So we are going to have an ultrasound this coming Thursday. I hope that both of our kitties will be fine! Sending vines to BK!

Hugs and scritches,

Ella & Rusty
 
Only from my experience when I see elevated ALT and weight loss I suspect pancreatitis. That was the early sign for Max. Have you run a spec fPL?
Back in June 2009 he had a test however I'm not sure if it was fPLI or spec fPL. In any case I'll request he be tested.
So a creatinine of 1.6 does not mean kidney disease. At the recheck visit you might consider a urinalysis to see how well the urine is being concentrated. I don't think CKD is the issue at all. A cat eating a high protein diet will often have a high BUN, again nothing to worry about. Were the labs done on a fast?
I will definitely get the urinalysis. He didn't fast however his appointment time was when he would have been eating where he home, so maybe 4.5 hours from his last meal to blood draw
.
 
Is there any chance BK has been eating something he shouldn't? The liver is the organ that detoxifies everything. If he was munching or something in the realm of "not good for a cat", it might be effecting his liver values.
I don't believe he is -although the one thing he (still) does is try and bite the ends of the blind pulls:

miniblinds cropped.jpg

One of the end bits is cracked - heaven knows what they are made of. . . Even though he is toothless, I suppose him putting it in his mouth could be exposing him to 'something not good for a cat'.
I'll keep my eyes peeled for anything else that might fall into that category.
.
 
heehee i like it a lot that Black Kitty has an alias . . . :cool: He is one cool cat.

Labs aren't my forte, but fortunately you've got lots of people who understand them better than me. Sending BK healing liver vines too!
 
Sandy

A couple things that I can think of. I agree his kidneys don't appear to be an issue but you don't need an entire UA done. I've dealt with this many times and the best and least expensive thing to do is to find out if your vet has a refractometer at his/her clinic and if they keep it calibrated or will calibrate it before they use it. If so, I'd collect BK's first urine sample of the day because it will be the most concentrated and then run it over to the vet and let them check his urine specific gravity (USG) with the refractometer. It's usually much cheaper than doing a whole UA especially to just see if he's concentrating his urine. You want the very first one of the day (and I know that might be a challenge since BK is in his own house) because USG changes during the day depending on how much water he might be drinking. Maybe he has a day that he's just a little thirstier than usual. If the first sample of the day is concentrated, than you don't need to worry that he's starting with kidney issues because a lower USG can be the first sign you might see of CKD before you even see a change to creatinine/BUN. But also be aware that cats with liver issues will drink more water and so a lower USG could be tied to liver issues as well. We ran into this with Gracie.......she was drinking a lot more water because of her elevated liver values and the UA the lab did on a mid day specimen showed a lower USG but the first sample of the day was normal. Once the liver issues were ironed out, her USG has been normal.

We also have had issues with her liver values especially ALT but at one time, all of them were up including AST, ALP, GGT, and bilirubin. We had the bile assay test done and it is fairly simple. You don't feed them, you take them to the vet and they draw blood, then you feed them and bring them back a little later and they draw blood again. The bile assay test can tell you if there is an issue with his bile duct and whether there is a potential blockage but it can also give an idea of overall liver function. Usually if there is a physical dilation of the bile duct, it indicates a blockage and they are really sick. If there is more a functional dilation, it's usually an infection as bacteria can travel from the intestines to the liver and up the bile duct. He might have cholangitis or triaditis (which involves the pancreas) but I think you'd see anorexia, vomiting, etc. with the latter. Typically.

What we did was an ultrasound and there was initially some inflammation of the liver so she went on clavamox and all levels came down to normal except ALT. The denamarin never helped Gracie but ECID. What did help her and bring her ALT down to normal was water soluble liquid Vitamin E. She gets 75IU of Aqua-E once a day.

This is the only one I could find that did not have any glycerin (which raises BG). She doesn't mind it at all...in fact, she rather thinks it is a treat. We just give it to her via syringe. The liver can be tricky because an elevated ALT is indicative, usually, of hepatocyte damage but it can be due to so many different things...even, as Sienne stated, eating something they shouldn't have. After Gracie's initial liver enzyme elevations came down, we continued to do ultrasounds and everything looked tiptop. Of course, the docs will say that you can't always tell completely and the only way to really dx liver disease is with a biopsy. We did not want to do that because, clinically, she was fine although she had lost a little bit of weight and was drinking/peeing more. Her weight is totally stable now and she's drinking/peeing normally.

I hope this helps. You know where to find me if you have any questions on what I wrote.
 
Are you giving fluids? Have you had frequent pancreatitus? Many treat it without testing for it. Other infections going on that you're aware of?

Here are some clips from Small Animal Medical Diagnosis 2nd edition:

ALT - there are no historical or physical exam findings attributable to an increased S-ALT. However, signs of hepatic disease, such as icterus or ascites, are often associated with increased S-ALT. Rule out: drug-induced acetaminophen, ketoconazole, tetracyclines; hyperthyroidism; liver disorders: colangiohepatittus, feline leukemia, hepatic lipidosis - idiopathic, secondary to diabetes, anorexia or malnutituion, drugs/toxins, septicemen; abdominal trauma: hepatic necrosis, damaged biliary tract, diaphragmatic hernia with incarcerated liver lobe; sepsis.

Monocytosis: stress - glucocorticoid; chronic inflammation, internal hemorrhage, persistent neutropenia, neutrophil function defect, granulomatous disease; neoplastic diseases; nonspecific malignancies; monocytic leukemia.
 
Hi there :cool:

BK saw his vet a couple weeks ago for his annual senior check up and a discussion of next steps.
He continues to lose weight and is now flirting with a dip under 8lbs.
I had a complete urinalysis done (cystocentesis) and am happy to report the results show nothing unusual and most importantly that he is concentrating his urine.

Regarding the elevated liver values, we discussed xray, ultrasound and bile assay.
The vet said that if she had one choice for further testing, it would be ultrasound as she feels that would give us something to 'hang our hats on'.
My response was 'and then what?'

I told her Dominick and I would need to discuss.

I asked her about vitamin E and although she didn't think it would help she agreed it won't hurt. @Marje and Gracie, I purchased the Aqua E - how is dose determined and how do I measure? Can I mix it into his food?


In spite of everything all Ps are in place and he is his same old happy, purry, laid back sweet self.
And that's the way we want to keep him, until his number comes up.
All things considered, Dominick and I have decided to focus on palliative care from here on out, for the best possible QOL
No trips back and forth to the vet for endless testing, no biopsies, no surgeries, no chemo.

And that's what I told his vet when she called me with the UA results and she has no problem with it.


Below is a very short recent video of a face off between 8lb toothless 12 year old BK and his 12lb 2 year old rambunctious roomie, Little Man Jake (Just "the look" is all it takes)


BK is still bad a$$
:cool:

 
{{{Sandy}}

You and BK have been through so much. I know you are attuned to his needs and will take the best care of him on this final journey. He is one awesome big little cat! Sending lots of comfort vines and hugs. :bighug:
 
All things considered, Dominick and I have decided to focus on palliative care from here on out, for the best possible QOL
No trips back and forth to the vet for endless testing, no biopsies, no surgeries, no chemo.

I think that is a very wise decision Sandy, and one that BK would want too. But I hope it's a while yet before you have to make that decision. He looks in fine fettle in the video, BK rules!
 
Aw its such a tuff decision on what to do and when to do palliative care. I just went through that with Scooter.
I love the video! He is one cool badass Kitty! :)
 
"MOM, BK's looking at me again!" Poor little Jake - he looks like he'd like to climb up that wall if he could!

On the other hand, BK's chest is clearly puffed out and he's thinking he's Mr. Studly "hehehe I scared the little guy!" :rolleyes:

Sending lots of healing white light to our little buddy BK! And lots of hugs to you, Sandy. I'm glad you checked in - you know we're part of the Sandy & BK team!:bighug:
 
Sandy

Of all the things we tried to bring down Gracie's liver values, including clavamox, denamarin, and some other liver support supplements, the vitamin E did the trick and there is literature supporting its use. I don't know the weight/dose calculation but Gracie weighs 8.5 lbs and her dose is 75iu daily which is 3.7 milliliters daily. We split it into two doses of 0.85 Mls and give it to her via a syringe....one right before her evening +2 meal and the other right before evening +3 meal. It must be tasteless because she doesn't mind it.

I hope that helps. Sending many vines to BK. and I'd do the u/s....and if it isn't clear, I'd do the bile assay test because it is easy. They draw blood, then you feed a meal, and then you bring them back after a specified amount of time for the second blood draw.

Edited to add: from the Aqua E website, 20IU Aqua-E = 1 ml so you can use that conversion if your vet has a different dose for BK.
 
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