BIG thank you to everyone thats helped me and Hidey!

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dirtybirdsoaps

dirtybirdsoaps

Member Since 2014
Hidey has been doing great, and its thanks to everyone on this site. If I wouldn't have found this website and all you wonderful people, I would have just listened to my vet and probably wouldnt have Hidey sitting here with me. He has been off insulin since 3/18 and since his dental and mini meals his numbers have improved even more. I truly hope everyone knows how valuable your information is, and the importance of home testing. I am still testing Hidey several times a day, Im just so scared his numbers are going to pop back up, and my fingers are crossed that they wont.

I do have a question though. I know my other 2 cats bg is in the 40's, is it ok for Hidey to be in the low 100's or do I still want to work towards even lower numbers?

Thank you again for all your wonderful help!!!!!
 
Under 120 is the target. Keep an eye out for things that could raise the glucose - infection anywhere can do it, stress, getting into contraband, other meds, etc.
 
He is still a little high which worries me because remission tends not to stick when levels are in the blues like that..
Do you feed mini meals at night. He seems to get high am numbers and I wonder if he would eat at night might reduce that.
 
I've been trying to feed him right before I go to bed (generally between 10-11 PM) and FIRST thing in the am (about 6:30) I plan on buying some automatic feeders but unfortunately I have to buy 3 and have to wait till the 10th, hopefully sooner though.....I'm expecting a $100 gift card for amazon any day and if I get that than I can do it sooner. I've noticed if I feed him about every 4 hrs he'll stay in the green.
 
No, sadly if I did that one of my other cats, hot rod, would eat all of it as it slowly thawed. At least with the feeders it would give Hidey a fighting chance. I guess I could try that and hopefully Hidey would get some food at least. If he could have dry it would be easier because I could put out some young again for him to graze on, but sadly because of his teeth he had removed no dry for another few days
 
Hi Samantha,

I wanted to weigh in on the possible mini dosing for Hidey's numbers. Here is some info on mini dosing in general:

When your cat is consistently in numbers too low to shoot at shot time and in numbers in the 100 range and below during the cycle, you can consider micro dosing. This process should be guided on the forum by experienced members and will require more frequent testing.

You may be shooting at times other than the 12/12 schedule, when the blood glucose levels rise enough to require a small dose of insulin. You will need to pick a number somewhere near the 150 range at which you will plan to shoot, being sure that the number is indeed rising. The dose at these low numbers will vary with each cat and its patterns, so advice should be solicited. But you may be considering doses below .25 and even considering a “drop” of insulin. At this point, U100 needles and the conversion chart will be necessary.

It is important during this period to offer small frequent meals. You may want to experiment with the lowest carb foods to help bring down the numbers, staying away from seafood more than once or twice a week.

Note that most people start with 150 and may be giving .1/.2 at that range to start with. They will probably go lower than that once they have some data, if they need to. (It's sort of like in the beginning when you were cautious, because now you have no data on the lower numbers. ) I don't see many numbers that high for Hidey and he does seem to be doing a good job bringing himself down.

I think, if he were mine, I would work hard to be sure he is generally grazing, getting food every couple of hours, and see if that lowers his numbers. Have you sure checked out the kidney food charts to be sure you are giving him the lowest carb you can?

It is true that many cats normally fall, OTJ, in the 40-60 range at their lowest point rather than the 80-90 he is in, but he may also be a cat who needs a while to fall down into those lower ranges. Or it may be that he needs a little help.

If you get a 146 again, and want to try .1, I'd make sure it was on a day I could monitor carefully.
 
Thank you Sue,

I have been trying to give him lower carb food. Before his dental I was mainly sticking to the Tiki chicken varieties that are 0% carbs, for the fact that it was 0% and also poultry NOT seafood which he favors and I have a TON of lol. When I took him in for his dental and they did blood work she told me he was showing signs of the beginning of kidney disease and told me the foods I'm feeding him are too high in protein and frying his liver. OKKKKKKK, so I get the print out of his blood work. From what I read, and please correct me if Im wrong and theres another flag I need to keep an eye out for, indications of kidney issues are usually BUN, crea, and Phos. His BUN was 6 points over the normal range, his crea was normal, and his phos was low. Of course she tried to push science diet on me, but I figure ok Ill look for lower protein and low carbs. Thats been leaving me with a lot of weruva cats in the kitchen and are generally 4% carbs. The only food I have that seems to be lower protein and 0% carbs and decent phos is the ziwipeak Ive been feeding him (venison & fish) I'm running in circles here. I figure his numbers would probably drop lower if he was getting MOSTLY 0% carb foods. How do I win and what am I supposed to believe? I REALLY want to keep him off insulin, and I don't want to cause him more health problems because of my choices. Is there another type of food that is lower protein, lower carbs, and lower phos that I'm missing? Should I even be concerned about her saying he's starting to have kidney issues? I wondered when she told me about his kidneys and I did my research if she was trying to regain control of our situation since Im not following what she wants for his diabetes. I also wonder if his numbers will improve at all once he can have the YA dry food again because that helps with the grazing between meals. Right now he is on strictly wet because he had 2 teeth removed, and Im trying to make sure to feed him about every 4 hours.
 
I have looked at that list, and also have looked at that website as well as Tanya's. Thats where I found all the info on what indications to look for in blood work, and I'm not seeing it. I've been trying to stick with lower phos foods for a while now just because I know he is older and thats something to watch. I haven't always kept him at 250 or less but those numbers on his blood work are low, so Ive been doing that right. My question is "Does anyone see a reason why my vet would say he's showing signs of kidney disease?" and "Should I worry about even changing his food?" I want to stick with the lower carb foods, but the lower carb foods are higher in protein. I am also going to order some of the other varieties of ziwipeak.


These are the foods we've mainly been sticking to:
3% Weruva Paw Lickin' chicken 196
4% Weruva On the Cat Wok 163
3% Weruva Meow Luau 253
1% Weruva Marbella Paella 253
1% Weruva Outback Grill 562
5% Tu Two Tango 343
4% Goldie Lox 252
4% Splash Dance 292
0% - TikiCat Koolina Luau 421 ( chicken with egg)
0% - TikiCat Puka Puka Luau 303 (chicken)
1% - TikiCat Hookena Luau 337
0% - TikiCat Napili Luau 419
2% - TikiCat Lanai Luau 348
0% - TikiCat Hanalei Luau 354
0% - TikiCat Papeeko Luau 392
0% Avoderm Tuna & Prawns 278
2% Avoderm Tuna % chicken w/ veggies 241
0% ZiwiPeak Venison & Fish 260
 
Urine Specific Gravity compares the density of urine vs water.

Very dilute urine could mean the kidneys were

a) requiring more water in order to process material to be excreted (lots of urine production). A sign of possible renal disease among other possibilities.
b) not extracting urea and getting it into the urine (normal or reduced urine production). A sign of possible dehydration among other possibilities.

Check Lab Tests Online for more info.
 
BJM said:
Urine Specific Gravity compares the density of urine vs water.

Very dilute urine could mean the kidneys were

a) requiring more water in order to process material to be excreted (lots of urine production). A sign of possible renal disease among other possibilities.
b) not extracting urea and getting it into the urine (normal or reduced urine production). A sign of possible dehydration among other possibilities.

Check Lab Tests Online for more info.
Click to expand...


Thank you. I know when he was first diagnosed as diabetic they did a urinalysis, but only did blood work for his dental. I will stop by there this week to get a print out of test results from blood and urine from initial diagnosis. That way I can compare his blood work, but also have urinalysis test results as well. Kidney disease wasnt even mentioned when he was diagnosed so im assuming theyre going off the blood work with their diagnosis.

BJM, You seem to have knowledge with lab results and kidney disease. In your personal opinion, do you see signs of kidney disease from his blood test results?
 
...A low USG can be an early indication of kidney insufficiency...
Click to expand...
See if they ran the USG. The results will affect how you interpret the other test values, i.e. high levels of a substance in dilute urine vs high level in concentrated urine will mean something different.

Per Tanya's Feline CRF,
BUN - blood urea nitrogen - with some highlighting by me.
BUN rises in CKD because the kidneys are no longer able to excrete it efficiently; but it can also rise for other reasons, such as dehydration, urethral obstruction (a blockage which prevents a cat from urinating, more common in male cats) or gastro-intestinal bleeding. It is also affected by both diet (since it is a by-product of the breakdown of protein) and stress.
Click to expand...

Creatinine - normal - with some highlighting by me.
In CKD cats, both BUN or urea and creatinine will be elevated to some degree depending upon the severity of the disease; but if BUN or urea levels are high yet creatinine is only a little elevated, it usually means that the cat is dehydrated, has gastro-intestinal bleeding, or is eating a high protein diet. Cats eating a raw or homemade diet tend to have higher creatinine levels.
Click to expand...

phosphorus - low That is encouraging to me, since you may need to reduce phosphorus intake in a CRF cat to keep it form building up too much.
http://www.felinecrf.org/phosphorus.htm

Keep in mind that 1 round of lab tests is just that - 1 round. When results are borderline, a repeated set of labs may help show if the results are stable or changing, which gives you more information about what could be happening.

Many of us fed dry food diets before having a diabetic cat and have had cats with chronic renal disease. Causal? Who knows. It probably did not help. My civvie Kiddle survived 5 years after her diagnosis, to the ripe old age of 18, the 2nd oldest cat I've ever had (her momma, Emmy, made it to 19).
 
I called them and no USG was done. So they are assuming kidney disease because of the blood work only. I also asked them to fax the blood work and urinalysis from January when he was diagnosed diabetic so I have the blood work to compare as well.
 
See my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for some ways to assess for dehydration and some other things.

Plus, you might find it helpful to record his weight regularly, notes on appetite, the anount of water drunk daily, and the size of the urine balls in the litter box. This will establish a current baseline. If you start noticing changes in those, it could be worth a vet visit.
 
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