BG high tonight should I do anything?

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Simke

Member Since 2013
Thinking I may have given a fur shot +2 evening shot 30.6m/mmol and Simke looks horrible, lethargic and walking strangely. Need to get set up to test ketones. Is there anything I can do for him now? From what I have read giving him more insulin is not a good choice?
 
The rule is NEVER reshoot, because there's no way of knowing how much insulin you ended up giving even if you think it was a fur shot, and it would be too dangerous to give a double dose. I know the feeling of wishing you could do more for your cat when it has a cycle of high blood sugar and is obviously not feeling well, but you just have to be patient and wait for the next regular shot or you could end up doing real harm.

I don't have any first-hand knowledge about ketones, but I know others on the board always urge people to check if the cat's breath smells like nail polish. If it does, it's an emergency and the cat needs to go to the vet immediately.
 
Thanks, I did smell his breath and it smells normal to me, so hopefully it is just the High BG making him feel bad, I'll wait till his AM shot, and hopefully make him feel better soon
 
I just saw that your spreadsheet says you didn't feed? Don't you feed at the same time as the shot? Your cat will still want to eat, and you don't know for sure that you have a fur shot. I see from your previous posts that you are using Lantus. At only two hours in it may not have quite started to take effect yet, and if it does take effect in a bit with no food in the cat's system his blood sugar could drop more than you want it to. You should just stick to the regular feeding schedule and be patient.

Plus, Lantus takes a little while to build up to full effect, so since you've just started it may take another day or two before you start seeing better levels. It's great you are home testing as it will be much easier to figure out over the next while whether you need to increase the dose.
 
Yes. If he has no food, the body will break down body tissue for energy, and that's how you get ketones. Plus some cats (mine is one!) can drop from a high blood glucose preshot to quite low just a few hours later, so it's always better to have food in the system since there's no telling what each cycle has in store!

Your cat is getting insulin now, so he will be starting to feel better, but sometimes you do get those high cycles. It's okay, it's all part of the information you need. You just have to carry on as usual, feeding and giving insulin, and keep testing preshot and midcycle so that you have data moving forward on whether to adjust his dose or not. We commonly hear the reminder here that your cat didn't get sick in a day, so it can take a while to get them properly regulated too. Just hang in there, you're doing what your cat needs.
 
Thanks, really hoping I didn't do another fur shot this morning. BG still high and he looks dazed.
 
Does the fact his BG is now down to 27.0. 5+ mean I didn't give him a fur shot or could it be a normal fluctuation, he last ate after morning shot. And he was just fed again at +5?
 
Tried 20x to get blood at 5+ but I am not sure if I am just bad at it or he is de-hydrated but couldn't get any. I got some just though and he is 31.7. He looks very pathetic, lathargic walking poorly. Still eating, I am so wondering if I am not actually getting insulin in him, or is this what they call the bounce when his body corrects. Feeling really stressed that I am not making him better. :(
 
Have you gotten a ketone test? If not, i would asap. He does sound ill. When you pull up his skin, does it go back or stay up? If you can, it might be wise to get him checked out. His numbers are running fairly high, but not high enough that he should feel this awful.
 
Going to try and set up another litter box to test ketones, 27.8 tonight, shaved a spot so pretty sure I got his insulin in :) He still looks bad, should I take him to Er vet?
 
Let's see what the ketones show. I don't like hearing that he continues to be lethargic. He is still eating? That would be a good sign.

You are using Lantus, right? At what dose and for how long? Does or did he have any kind of infection?
 
I am using Lantus, but I am concerned I have done fur shots. He is a bit dehydrated although he is still eating. I set up a litter box to be able to test for ketones if he pees. He is sleeping most of the time and holding his head down, I shaved a spot of his fur off so I am quite convinced I got the lantus in tonight. When I take it out of the fridge I roll it in my hands, (for how long?)

Thanks for your help
 
I don't use Lantus but asked someone who does to come over and have a look at your thread. I think a ketone test would be very important. Here is a sticky with info about handling Lantus: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151 This sticky may help you see how a fur shot impacts the progress: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=150

I would get a ketone test as soon as he goes. If you are really worried about him, you know him best. A trip to the ER might be a good idea. If he had ketones, I would say definitely.
 
Hello

You don't need to roll lantus at all, unlike some insulins it's not a suspension. Here is how to handle it.. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151

I am not a dosing expert but I do think the lantus is working since he does drop down a bit and go back up, your dose probably just isn't high enough. I will ask someone to come over and have a look and advise. Pleas confirm for us though

1. Food type and brand? It's friskies mariners catch and purina DM wet only right?
2. Not on steroids
3. Good teeth and no other infections known?

Try and get some more liquid into him meanwhile..

Wendy
 
Ok just tested him he is 17.8 now, very lathargic. He is still eating (not with same enthusiasm but gets up from sleeping to walk to bowl) has eaten about 2 1/2 cans today Friskies pate's and a low carb one from walmart call special kitty (I think) He walks with his head down low, a few steps stops seems to try to re balance then walks on. He had a normal temp on Sat at the vet, his teeth look ok
 
Looked up ketosis signs

Drinking excessive amounts of water OR no water. ---no
Excessive urination----no
Diminished activity-----yes
Not eating for over 12 hours------no
Vomiting-----no
Lethargy and depression------yes
Weakness-----yes
Breathing very fast------no
Dehydration----a bit
Ketone odor on breath (smells like nail-polish remover or fruit)----no
 
Brought him some water and he drank quite a lot, breathing normal, is very stooped when he walks or sits not sure what that means, after he drank he lay down breathing quiet and normal no purr when I caress him but tail wags, not sure what it means, with all he drank hope to get my ketone test soon.
 
Finally got my test, neg for ketones and my purr is back. 14.8 m/mmol but he still is lethargic and stooped it is 2.30 now so if he still looks bad in the morning I may take him to the vet and see if something else is going on. Does the head down stooped look mean anything?
 
Hello.
Good that his ketones are negative.
Is he laying in what we call the "meatloaf" position, with his paws tucked under him and his head hanging down? That position can indicate feeling bad, especially if they do it much of the time.
If he's slightly dehydrated, the vet may want to give him fluids. You can learn to do this at home. There is a great video link to help if it is needed.

It also sounds like he may be experiencing neuropathy.
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Neuropathy
For Diabetic neuropathy, you specifically want methylcolbalamin. The other b12 that you find in stores is colbalamin which is used to treat pernicious anemia.

For cats, its Zolbaline


Zolbaline has less additives and is the better choice for cats.
However, I use Vitacost http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitami ... s/?NttSR=1
The vitacost one has a trace amount of rice flour.
My cat was just starting to show signs of her rear legs getting weaker and she reversed completely after I put her on the Vitacost version. I like it because it's a capsule and easy to mix in her food.
Click to expand...
A commonly given dose here is 3 mg -5 mg.
B vitamins are water soluble and any excess is excreted in the urine so you can't give too much. The body only uses what it needs.


the bottle above is 5000mcg which is the same as 5 mg. You can empty the whole capsule and mix in with the canned food or use part of it if you prefer the 3 mg dose.


It would be good to get a spreadsheet started so others can help you.
How to set up a spreadsheet
If you have troubles setting it up, just ask.... There are many here who are able to do one for you.


High numbers do make them lethargic and so does the diabetes. Is he constantly wanting food?
Dehydration will need a visit to the vet but meanwhile add water to the food to make it soupy. Every bit helps.
 
Good morning,

I did set up a spread sheet, does it not show up? This morning 25.3 m/mmol. Still struggling to walk properly and head is down, good appetite, no ketones, He looks depressed.
 
Poor kitty, so sorry to hear that he's under the weather. Your spreadsheet is showing up fine for me. Please take what I'm saying with a truck of salt and don't make this change without at least talking to your vet or getting confirmation from other members, but it *looks* based on your chart like a dose increase on the Lantus is in order. When Sunny was initially diagnosed I had to ultimately get into the 3-4 units twice a day range before he started feeling better (he also was very lethargic, just wanted to hide away and sleep constantly).

Granted he was on Purina DM dry, which I have since learned is *not* low carb despite the DM name. Nonetheless, to *me*, a non-expert with some experience, it does sound as though your vet may recommend going up on the insulin. One unit twice a day is a relatively low dose.

Again, I'm NOT saying to suddenly increase the dose without talking to your vet. Personally, I was comfortable going up by 0.5 unit increments but only when I would be home to observe and had tested his BG beforehand. And I would always give 2 days to adjust before increasing again. Just strongly thinking that may be what gets him out of the funk - doesn't mean he'll always need the higher dose either. Fluids would probably help too... When you pinch a fold of skin on his shoulder does it spring back when you let go or is there a delay as it slowly oozes back into shape?
 
P.S. I'm sure you are very stressed too (I know I was at first). Make sure to give yourself a pat on the back for loving your kitty so much that you are providing the best care possible. Sadly, there are so many cats who either suffer untreated, get put up for adoption, or just receive so-so care because the owner can't be bothered. You're doing really, really well by him and as vigilant as you are, I *know* he will get better. Even just lurking here the past year, I've read dozens of posts where people come here distraught with a kitty who has numbers like yours, and within a few months those numbers are blue and green. Some have a more difficult road, but the fact that you're willing/able to home test and are feeding canned food only tell me that you will get him feeling better... It took me over a year to grasp those two important things, sadly.
 
Thanks for the support (crying reading i,t so yes I guess pretty stressed). I am supposed to e mail BG chart to vet today, as from what I have read 1 unit is quite low for 5.5 kg cat as well, but also read it was better to start slow. Really struggling to know if I am getting insulin in, I think I'll shave him a bit more today. His fur is very thick?
 
I had to cut fur off and shave a little hair off the ears when I started. Hard to see on a black cat.

I know you are over here in main forum but I wanted to pull this from the tr protocol as a general guideline for dose increases.

"General" Guidelines:
•Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 consecutive cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 consecutive cycles).
•Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 consecutive cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).
•Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

Increasing the dose:
•Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.
•After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
•After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.
Click to expand...

You just got started and it will take some time to see progress.
Simkes shed ( depot ) needs to fill . Lantus builds up cumulatively.

You've got a ss now. That's a big help.
You can always post over in the TR forum. It has the most eyes and some people there aren't even on lantus.
It's just one of the more active forums.
Every one is Welcome.
 
I had some concerns about not getting the insulin into my cat properly, but since I learned I could give him his injection in other areas of his body, it has become a breeze now.

There are some good tips Here

and this one has some pictures to help make it clear: BD Injection Sites for cats
 
No ketones but he looks horrible, any suggestions on having them do blood or trying insulin
 
Start a new thread with his symptoms, what the vet has said and what they are doing. Add a 911 to the subject. Hopefully you'll get some people who have dealt twith similar issues.
 
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