Benadryl,Elimination diet,pumpkin,glucosamine questions?

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Rachel & Chyna (GA)

Rachel & Chyna (GA)

Member Since 2012
Hi everyone:) I've got a few questions and am hoping someone has experience with any of them. I went to the vet yesterday as Chynas itching seems to be worse and her bum looked sore and swollen. The vet said the excess licking, scratching and sore bottom was from food allergies as I suspected. She drained the anal glands and did a bum exam to be sure, which made Chyna super happy (uh, I don't think I've ever heard her make those angry noises before) and suggested childrens benadryl to help the itching for now and her going back onto a hypoallergenic diet. Which she was on before diagnosis with the dry food. The problem is that the wet is 17 in carbs! I didn't get a chance to ask many questions as I was pretty much rushed right out of my appointment, not happy about that.

So I asked about an elimination diet with wet commerical foods lower in carbs. She said it can take 12 weeks on one food. The only ones I can find in "different" proteins in the low carb with lower phosphorus (still a bit high for CKD but in the lower range) are the ziwipeak lamb and the nature's variety rabbit (has anyone fed the rabbit one? I heard it was sourced in China but did get the phos value and it's ok). I like the nature's variety duck too, but it has "turkey liver". I think she is allergic to chicken, turkey or both since that is what I've been mostly feeding, could be more. She is on all grain free. Elimination seems pretty hard with all I give her, including the pill pockets for vitamins involved too...duck and pea.

So my questions:

Does anyone know of a better food than the ones I listed for diabetic/CKD elimination diet? Raw isn't really an option with me needing to leave it out all day when I'm gone to work.

I did start half a teaspoon of pure pumpkin (not the pie filling) twice daily the other day to help her with the constipation and then the diarrhea. I read it is supposed to be good for CKD kitties with that problem. Does anyone know if pumpkin affects BG or elimination diets? Her poop looked much better yesterday.

I was giving coconut oil 0.25ml daily and started feline fish oil 0.25ml daily for a few weeks (coconut for two weeks, fish oil for a few days) but stopped yesterday since her poop was loose looking and with her sore bum I wasn't sure what was going on. The pumpkin seemed to/should help with that and I'd like to start giving them again...do these affect elimination diets as well? From what I've read it looks like the usual culprits are grain, corn, proteins...

Has anyone used Childrens Benadryl...how much, how often, what kind?

Also, she is on Cosequin (glucosamine supplement) for her arthritis. When I read the label it says "Tuna and Chicken flavoring" which I'm guessing affects the elimination diet?? Does anyone use unflavored glucosamine supplements or something for arthritis (preferably not medication) that they can recommend?

Sorry for the giant letter. I'm planning on emailing my vet some of these questions too, but she isn't very good at answering promptly and I'd like to start this all soon, poor kitty. Plus I like to hear from people who have used these things on their cats:) I've been trying to search posts for this info too but haven't had much time:( Thanks for any help you can give, have a great day! :-D
 
It looks like you've been through everything I would try. Raw can be left out longer than most people say, Dr Lisa says she leaves hers out for a long time.

Where did you get the NV Rabbit numbers? it isn't on Dr Lisa's new list and I'd love to get them.

I don't know about the Benadryl but the glucosamine in Cosequin is made form shellfish! That is a common allergy. I'd worry more about that than the flavorings.
 
Hi Rachel,
I fed Maggie and Star one can of the Nature's Variety Instinct rabbit, and they ate it fine. It was funny--they looked at it, sniffed it, looked at me as if to say "this smells like something we should recognize, but it's not ringing a bell," and then ate it up! I just bought the one can because it was more expensive than the other flavors (usually I feed the duck and lamb varieties, and I use the dog foods because the canned NVI foods for cats and dogs are the same), and I was curious to see what my cats thought of it. Like you, I had heard it was made in China, but at least one website that sells it says it is made in the US. The label also said "Made in the USA." One possible complication is availability--I've read that sometimes it goes out of stock everywhere temporarily. That would just mean you'd need an alternative for when you can't get the rabbit formula. Hope that helps a little!

Phyllis >^..^<

Edited after Ann's post:
I haven't found any numbers for the rabbit variety, but the breakdown of proteins, fats, moisture, and fiber is the same as the duck variety (I realize these numbers aren't precise because they are the guaranteed analysis). The rabbit flavor does have pork liver. You could run the standard feed-and-check procedure with BG levels. I think I'll contact the company and ask for the breakdown we need, so Dr. Lisa's chart can include them. We'll see if they respond!
 
One immediate thought is that you would have the most control with a homemade raw diet. There are timed feeders that have space for an ice pack which would alleviate your concern about leaving food out during the day. I believe Ella/Rusty has a 2-compartment feeder that accommodates an ice pack.

I'm surprised your vet didn't give you the dose on the benedryl. Several people have commented that benedryl tastes awful and their cats have foamed because of it. I don't know if this is the case with children's benedryl, though. My vet had recommended Zyrtec when Gabby was having problems with allergy.

I don't think pumpkin should be a problem. The most common allergies for cats are beef and fish. It sounds like Chyna has added poultry products to the list. My understanding is that switching to novel proteins (duck, venison, kangaroo, rabbit) should help.

I know there are members whose cats are getting an injection of a glucosamine-like medication for arthritis. For the life of me, I can't recall the name. I don't know if it's fish-derived, as well.
 
Shadow started Adequan shots for arthritis. I don't know if that's what Sienne was think of.

I have given benadryl to my droolers and to my cat but I don't remember the amount. It was a small amount in a dropper. They do make a liquid form for kids and I prefer the dye free benadryl so not to add dyes ( that can be a trigger for allergy problems too ) but the dye free is harder to find... and it's bubblegum flavored. ( yuck) They had a shortage of it last
year or it may have been the year before where you couldn't get it any where .
the regular liquid for kids is cherry flavored ( double yuck)
So it's not likely going to taste very good to a cat.

Wendy (and Neko) feeds raw kangaroo ( she is in British Columbia) and has some local store she loves. That would be a novel protein.
We can't get raw kangaroo in the U.S. that I can find.
 
We use this feeder - it's probably the one Sienne mentioned - http://www.amazon.com/Ani-Mate-Inc-201C ... supplies_2. It has an insert you can put in the freezer. The timers are good for at least 24 hours, but the resolution isn't that great - for example, if I set it at 3 hours, it will go off between 2:45 and maybe 3:45, but it's consistent. Overall it's decent but is a little cheaply made. Does the job though.

Good luck with the allergies.
 
whatever you do do not give a human glucosamine mix. the various levels are all wrong for cats and it's suspected to cause diabetes - pretty sure that's what happened to Vyktor.

unless they're fussy food freshness isn't as much of an issue as u might think because cats have a short digestive tract.
 
I use the Qpet timed feeder for serving Neko her raw food. It has a compartment for ice cubes, cool packs. I'm not necessarily recommending it, the user interface is horrible, but it is pretty accurate and so far the batteries have lasted a year. (antijnx)

In Canada, you can get Cartrophen injections for arthritis. I used to get them for my previous very arthritic kitty. I think it's very similar to Adequan. The other thing I fed was Recovery SA which has glucosamine and MSM and the bottle says "all natural products, free from the common allergens". It's a powder so you measure out according to weight.

Neko eats two proteins that are common in protein restricted diets, kangaroo and venison. Her food comes from Red Dog Blue Kat Deli, the only provider of 100% organic, non medicated food in B.C. The person who does their sourcing is a friend. They also sell in Alberta but the closest to you is Edmonton or Fort McMurray, so not very close. If you have a raw pet food store in town, you can always ask if they have any novel proteins or will get some in. I've also seen goat, elk, lamb, buffalo, wild boar. BTW, the best provider of organic wild boar is Alberta. Sienne is right that making your own is the best way to know exactly what is in. Some add eggs (some kitties are allergic to), or bones or organs come from different meats. Neko's kangaroo has goat organs in it - they can't get kangaroo organs here. Know anybody who hunts?

Did you find Ziwipeak venison? Good luck in the fuds hunt.
 
Thanks everyone, I have more research to do now, LOL. I do have an autofeeder (petmate 5 compartments) that I like since it has a digital timer and I can set it to any time! It does have a space for a slim ice pack, but only under the compartment that is "open". We started the transition to ziwipeak lamb last night, so far, so good, she likes it :-D

I don't think I'm ready to do raw yet...I may have to and I will do what I need to...but will try the canned first. I read on Tanyas site that it isn't advised to switch to all raw for CKD if you weren't on it already...but my main issue is money to start it up and difficulty in my small town finding anything...and I'm a little wussy with raw meat :? I'll keep looking into it though.

Sienne, thanks for you comments, I'm not happy with the vet either. She seemed a little rough in her bum exam, but maybe I'm just sensitive. She was trying to run out the door as I tried to ask questions, it felt very rushed and I felt like I was inconveniencing her to even try. Another girl from work was there the same day and said the same thing, the vet had the door open and kept trying to leave after her quick exam. The other vet there is the one I wanted to go to in the first place since he was so highly recommended, but he is always on holidays, is currently again! Chyna likes the pumpkin so I will continue:)

Rhiannon, thanks, I will check into Adequan or some equivilant:) I did buy some benadryl but all the store had was adult pills in the regular strength...they had all sorts of "night time" etc. I haven't tried it yet, I want to read up on it as I read it can dehydrate and she is already that with kidney disease...

Lisa, thanks for the good wishes:) They have that one at the local Petsmart, it was the first one I bought but one of the timers wouldn't work so I took it back and bought the expensive one, lol.

Vyktors Mum, you read my mind, I was thinking human glucosamine as they have shellfish free ones, but will not now!

Wendy, thanks for all the links! I will be checking those out. I never thought of buffalo. The ziwipeak venison is too high in phosphorus, but I did find the lamb...ironically at a store in Vancouver that ships individual cans with decent shipping prices and they have the NVI rabbit too. I found another store in Quebec that ships reasonably to here too that stocks both and sells individual cans. My local pet stores do not have raw pre made frozen foods at all and so far the ones online don't come here. I can always call the Edmonton ones to see if they ship frozen...so far the ones I've looked at don't. One of my best friends is actually a hunter, but most of it is spent looking and not getting anything :lol:

I have a kitty glaring at me for her mid evening mini meal, so I'd better go feed her ;-)
 
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