Bella Diabetes and CKD questions

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Alicia2022

Alicia2022

Member Since 2022
[ Edited post ]

Since Bella has recently been diagnosed with both diabetes and CKD, I have a few questions about this combo. I read through some topics on this forum and also some info on tanyackd website but I’m still not sure. I have also asked our vet and didn’t get a definite answer either!

1) SubQ fluids? How do I know if Bella needs them? Her “CKD Stage 3” diagnosis is primarily based on her SDMA 30. She does drink plenty of water, including with her pates (although not as much as she used to prior to starting insulin). Her gums are wet, she’s not constipated, but her skin is a bit slow to relax after pinching.
2) She loves FF pates but if this food is too high in phosphorus, how much of it can she safely eat per day? Her other foods are RC Renal E wet and RC GI wet (20% carb).
3) B12: since Bella’s neuropathy is quite bad, I’ve ordered the product recommended here and on the CKD site. https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-500-mcg-300-capsules
However, I see that people here are using 5000 mcg dosage while the recommendation on the CKD site is ten times lower, 500 mcg. I asked our vet and she had to look it up in an encyclopedia Then told us to give max 250 mcg but better yet just to buy multivitamins on chewy…
 
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Thank you, Lisa, there was a long post with too many questions and zero replies, I just decided to delete it and maybe post my questions one by one later.
 
sorry your post got missed I always try to make sure every post gets a reply, I remember when I first posted and no replies for about 12 hours I was about to cry
 
Kyle, I understand there are always lots of kitties and lots of questions, don't be sorry :)
Well, since this thread has been brought back to people's attention, I'm going to edit it again and ask one of my questions here.
 
Alicia2022 said:
B12: since Bella’s neuropathy is quite bad, I’ve ordered the product recommended here and on the CKD site. https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-500-mcg-300-capsules
However, I see that people here are using 5000 mcg dosage while the recommendation on the CKD site is ten times lower, 500 mcg. I asked our vet and she had to look it up in an encyclopedia Then told us to give max 250 mcg but better yet just to buy multivitamins on chewy…
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A lot of members use Zobaline which is 3000 MCG which is recommend for neuropathy. A member turned me in to the Vitacost Brand 5000 MCG and most members use it
Since it’s water soluble, any excess is just pee’d out anyway.
I gave it to Tyler and it took about maybe a month and a half and he was back to jumping, walking normal. I did see small improvements about every 2 weeks

Just in case for next time
https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-100-capsules-6
 
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Alicia2022 said:
SubQ fluids? How do I know if Bella needs them? Her “CKD Stage 3” diagnosis is primarily based on her SDMA 30. She does drink plenty of water, including with her pates (although not as much as she used to prior to starting insulin). Her gums are wet, she’s not constipated, but her skin is a bit slow to relax after pinching.
2) She loves FF pates but if this food is too high in phosphorus, how much of it can she safely eat per day? Her other foods are RC Renal E wet and RC GI wet (20% carb).
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Tagging @Suzanne & Darcy

@Wendy&Neko
 
Not sure about feeding Fancy Feast
weruva has low carb and low phospherous wet food
With weruva foods
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.
https://weruva.com


For diabetic cats and cats that have elevated kidney values
You want to feed low phosphorous wet food

When you go to the weruva site and click on one of the pics of the food , click on Detailed Nutrition information that is under guaranteed analysis to the left
YOU WANT CARBS UNDER 10% AND PHOSPHORUS IDEALLY LOW 200's OR LESS

Go to this thread , there are a lot of weruva foods listed here in post #3 , post numbers are to the left
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/kidney-disease.262271/#post-2940026

Also
https://www.soulisticpet.com/nutritional-information-pate
I think you look under the same two places like in the Weruva to get the carbs and phosphorus %

If Bella likes PATES here are the weruva pages
Take a look here https://weruva.com/nutrition-landing/pates-ni/

Try not to feed a lot of fish flavors , once a week is fine

Found this posted by another member pates
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I don't know if the BFF play weruva pate is on the list your looking at or not. I wrote down the protein carbs & phosphorus #s in a notebook.
BFF play chicken Checkmate
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken cherish
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 135%
BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 136%
BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 149%
BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 154%
BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 165%
BFF play chicken & beef best buds
Protein 33%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 171%
Don't know if your kitty likes pate but here is the list of the BFF Play line.
 
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So Bella's creatinine was only 1.2 at those last labs (I don't remember the date) so that is why I kind of questioned the whole diagnosis (based on SDMA only) and aren't you the one who said your vet did not have faith in the SDMA test. I don't think you have an urgent situation. At this point, I would do what you are doing. Start the transition to low to moderate phosphorus foods and keep monitoring for any symptoms and get the bloodwork tested every three months for now (even in the absence of symptoms.)
 
As Diane said, the renal Rx foods are high carb (or medium carb) but when you get to a certain point with CKD, you may need them - but you may be able to manage with phosphate binders and supple like EFAs. I finally had to switch to renal foods due to kidney numbers. I’m not saying you are there now.
 
Thank you, Diane and Suzanne! I'll certainly look into Weruva foods. I've heard about them from Cat Man Chris and I kind of trust that guy :)
Suzanne & Darcy said:
and aren't you the one who said your vet did not have faith in the SDMA test
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The thing is, our vet often says that she doesn't know the things I'm asking about or that she doesn't have experience with them. For example, she never used Adequan to treat a cat. But she's nice person overall and I hope that together we can manage things. Oh, and she was so impressed by Bella's spreadsheet I showed to her :)
 
Alicia2022 said:
Thank you, Diane and Suzanne! I'll certainly look into Weruva foods. I've heard about them from Cat Man Chris and I kind of trust that guy :)

The thing is, our vet often says that she doesn't know the things I'm asking about or that she doesn't have experience with them. For example, she never used Adequan to treat a cat. But she's nice person overall and I hope that together we can manage things. Oh, and she was so impressed by Bella's spreadsheet I showed to her :)
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Well, maybe she will learn along with you.
 
Alicia2022 said:
Thank you, Diane and Suzanne! I'll certainly look into Weruva foods. I've heard about them from Cat Man Chris and I kind of trust that guy :)

The thing is, our vet often says that she doesn't know the things I'm asking about or that she doesn't have experience with them. For example, she never used Adequan to treat a cat. But she's nice person overall and I hope that together we can manage things. Oh, and she was so impressed by Bella's spreadsheet I showed to her :)
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Who is Cat Man Chris?
 
Alicia2022 said:
There is rice flour listed as an ingredient, is that okay?
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That's weird on the 5000 MCG rice flour is not listed I just looked
Other Ingredients: Microcrystalline cellulose, gelatin, vegetable stearic acid, vegetable magnesium stearate and silicon dioxide.


But on the 500 MCG I see rice flour listed
Other Ingredients: Gelatin, rice flour, vegetable stearic acid and vegetable magnesium stearate

I really couldn't tell you all I know is that I used the 5000 MCG and Tyler's numbers never went up and I haven't seen any other member that has used it ever said it affected their cats numbers
 
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@Alicia2022 I just did a search about rice flower on our site and it should be fine
Here's what I found about Methyl B-12
A lot of the methylcobalamin supplements have rice flour. It should not be enough to cause a rise in BGs.

Found this also posted by a member
The rice powder is mixed with the B12 powder. Typically, a filler like rice powder is added to meds in order to help ensure mixing and to prevent clumping.

You can start with the dose you ordered and if needed increase it
If you ever want to try and find something you want to know go to the top where it says search and type in what you might be looking for, a lot of posts should come up for you to read


Your vet suggested to buy multivitamins instead , never heard of that, I would just give the Methyl B12
 
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Diane, thank you so much for finding this discussion about the rice flour and the dosage! I'm going to start at a low dose and increase gradually.
BTW I've noticed that Bella has been a bit more active recently. Either because the insulin started working or just because of the weather (it was so hot for weeks and now it's pleasant).
 
Okay… I can’t find your post where you said that your vet recommended multivitamins- but a B-Complex vitamin is recommended to assist with anemia. I think I may have mentioned this to you before. I use Jarrow B-Right split into 10th in size 4 gelcaps.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Okay… I can’t find your post where you said that your vet recommended multivitamins- but a B-Complex vitamin is recommended to assist with anemia. I think I may have mentioned this to you before. I use Jarrow B-Right split into 10th in size 4 gelcaps.
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Here it is @Suzanne & Darcy I also agree with using Jarrows B- Right , I used to use it for Tyler's brother Perry
 
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Alicia2022 said:
Diane, thank you so much for finding this discussion about the rice flour and the dosage! I'm going to start at a low dose and increase gradually.
BTW I've noticed that Bella has been a bit more active recently. Either because the insulin started working or just because of the weather (it was so hot for weeks and now it's pleasant).
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I'm glad she's a but more active, with the MethylB-12 just open up the capsule and sprinkle it on her wet food and always add some water to her wet food
It's tasteless also.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Here it is @Suzanne & Darcy I also agree with using Jarrows B- Right , I used to use it for Tyler's brother Perry
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I used to use the size 5 torpac gel caps they are the smallest
https://vetapprovedrx.pharmacy/gel-...A-QIViKjICh0fiQt0EAQYASABEgK79PD_BwE#162=1017

When I joined Tanya's site they told me
they told me to divide one capsule into 10 doses, but then I was told to buy the spoons and use the spoon that says drop on it, it would be close enough.
I'll show you the spoons
https://www.amazon.com/Norpro-Stainless-Measuring-Spoons-smidgen/dp/B0009X1P9S


Just fill the spoon that says drop dose and put it into the gel cap .
Did you ever have to pill Bella

Here us the link to but the Jarrow B Right
https://www.vitacost.com/jarrow-formulas-b-right
 
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