Begs for food but won't eat.

[Butterscotch's Pawrents]

What initially lead to Butterscotch's diagnosis was her not eating. She was eating a half can of wet food morning and night with free access to kibble in between. She suddenly lost interest in kibble so I began sprinkling freeze dried chicken on it. That worked excellent for a few weeks and then bam, wouldn't eat it. So I switched to sprinkling bonito flakes on it. Same thing, ate it a couple weeks then completely refused. I switched kibbles, she ate that for a bit and then stopped that too. So we went to a full can of wet in AM and again at PM. She gobbled it up. Then slowly over a couple weeks she'd start leaving some behind, we'd find her put it in front of her again and she'd eat. Then after a bit we'd have to hand feed her the rest. Eventually she'd refuse the can all together. I started sprinkling the freeze dried chicken on the canned food and it'd help for a bit, switch to sprinkling bonito flakes and it'd help for a bit until she now won't even eat bonito flakes ever again (she used to love then like they were crack). So we switched canned foods like 4 times. Each time she'd eat the new one for a few days and over a course of a week she'd slowly stop eating it. We'd rotate to a new food and same thing. I'd heat the food, add water, add tasty topings etc, and hand feed. All would work for a bit and then she'd just refuse. Until one night she just wouldnt eat anthing, baby food, human tuna, you name it. She'd try each and then refuse. All the while she'd beg for food like she was starving. We'd open dozens of cans and she'd hate each one. She looks at it and deliberatly turns her head away, she'd chew some up and spit it out, she'd lick her lips a ton. So we thought it was nausea or too much stomach acid. Took her to vet and got the diabetes diagnosis. We started her on Cerenia first, then added Pepcid. These didn't seem to help so I stopped them after a few days. We initially tried the purina DM and she ate one can, next day tasted it and refused to eat it. Finally we got her on Weruva and Tiki cat a couple weeks ago and we are alternating them which seemed to keep her interested. Then she started doing the same with the Weruva and completely refuses it now. She has been eating a variety of Tiki cat but started to slow down with that too the last couple days. Eats a few bites, walks away. Hand feeding initially helps but then she gives up. All the while she begs for food all day like she's starving. Today is now setting me into a panic again, because I can't get enough food into her to comfortably give insulin. I've opened 4 cans. Some she refuses completely and others she eats a couple bites. PMPS was 376. (I know I don't have spreadsheets set up yet but her blood sugars range from 315-440 on an AT2 meter).
Thoughts, what's going on here, what do we do?
Feeding her is what gives me the most anxiety about her care.
She's had an XRAY that shows an ileus, lots of bloating but vet hasn't explained anything about how this might be causing anything . Can't afford an US. Vet had given very little advice. We feel like if we can't get her to eat we'll have to put her down. While she's slowed down and is lethargic and some days are worse than others she seems happy. She jumps up on things, batts at a peacock feather, scratches her post, grooms a little, never has accidents.

 

[Sandi and Toby]

For nausea you can also try Ondansetron instead of Cerenia, and if she does have nausea, and that gets rid of it, then adding an appetite stimulant on top of it? Cyproheptadine or Mirtazapine. But they probably won't do any good if there is nausea and/or acid.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I feel so bad for Butterscotch, I really have no idea, but if this vet really hasn't given you any advice like you said I would find another vet, maybe another vet can tell you something, I hope another vet can help you

 

[Margie and Jackson]

Seeming hungry but refusing to eat is a classic sign of dental problems. Does she leave a lot of crumbs when she eats? That’s another sign.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Welcome to you and Butterscotch
How did you get to 3 units so quickly?
That is a lot of insulin for a newly diagnosed cat.
If she was diagnosed onAug 8 that is only 2 weeks. Normal starting dose of Lantus is around 1 unit.... hold the dose for 5 to 7 days and then if necessary increase by 1/4 unit depending on how low the insulin takes her.

You have done well trying to get her to eat. It can be frustrating but if she seems otherwise well, I would not even think of putting her down. There must be a reason... it is just sometimes hard to find it.
I would try cerenia again and get some ondansetron to try. It often works when cerenia doesn’t.
Also as someone mentioned it could be get teeth. I’d get them checked.
Are you testing before every insulin shot and again about 4 to 6 hours later to see how low the insulin takes her.?

Getting the spreadsheet up and running will help if you can manage that.
Hang in there. We know how frustrating it can be getting a kitty to eat sometimes but we will help and support you

 

[Butterscotch's Pawrents]

Seeming hungry but refusing to eat is a classic sign of dental problems. Does she leave a lot of crumbs when she eats? That’s another sign.

Yes, she does often leave crumbs, and turns her head to side when she chews. She leaves behind pieces of food that are dry and often puts food in her mouth and spits it out. We suspect dental problems. Vet says she has some dental stuff going on but said not to worry about it or persue it right now until the diabetes is under control. Thoughts?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I disagree with the vet.
You need to get the dental issues sorted now. They are not only stopping her eating, they could be contributing to the higher numbers.
We hear that so often here.. ‘get the cat regulated first’.... but it isn’t going to happen because the teeth are part of the problem.
Cats numbers are frequently much better once dental issues are sorted and poor Butterscotch can’t eat because her mouth hurts. I’ll bet the vet wouldn’t put up with a painful mouth for long before getting it fixed.
Be firm and say you want it attended to. If he won’t do it, I would find another vet who will.

 

[Butterscotch's Pawrents]

Welcome to you and Butterscotch
How did you get to 3 units so quickly?
That is a lot of insulin for a newly diagnosed cat.
If she was diagnosed onAug 8 that is only 2 weeks. Normal starting dose of Lantus is around 1 unit.... hold the dose for 5 to 7 days and then if necessary increase by 1/4 unit depending on how low the insulin takes her.

You have done well trying to get her to eat. It can be frustrating but if she seems otherwise well, I would not even think of putting her down. There must be a reason... it is just sometimes hard to find it.
I would try cerenia again and get some ondansetron to try. It often works when cerenia doesn’t.
Also as someone mentioned it could be get teeth. I’d get them checked.
Are you testing before every insulin shot and again about 4 to 6 hours later to see how low the insulin takes her.?

Getting the spreadsheet up and running will help if you can manage that.
Hang in there. We know how frustrating it can be getting a kitty to eat sometimes but we will help and support you

She started on 1 unit on Aug 8, did a curve at vets office on Aug 15, numbers were high and comparable to her diagnosis reading. Vet increased Lantus to 2 units. I then did her second curve at home on Aug 22. Her numbers barely had budged so vet said go to 3 units Lantus. I discussed with her concern for a rebound effect but she said given her numbers we needed to go to 3 units.
I insisted I wanted to test her at home but vet has been trying to convince me not to. I did borrow their AT after the first curve and have been testing her at a different time once each day, basically a curve spread over a week. I know this is not what is advised per this Forum, but I have read elsewhere about doing it this way. I am also an RN and I realize the repercussions of giving insulin without a blood sugar first. Thus I was initially adamant about wanting to test her several times a day. However, we are completely overwhelmed with trying to get her to eat, doing research, giving her SubQ fluids, and working full time, and she does not tolerate any of the poking and prodding well. It also took me time to research an affordable meter I would be comfortable with and it hasn't arrived yet so I'm limited to the few test strips the vet gave us. Ideally we would test at least 3 times a day, but for now, I made a choice to take that risk and only test once a day until we all hopefully adjust.

I do agree that the 3 units seems like a lot so soon and we have witnessed that she seems to have started eating more poorly and drinking/peeing more since the dose increased from 2-3 units. I'm terribly concerned that it's a rebound effect. Reading the Lantus board it sounds like after day 3-4 of a dose change things sometimes settle so we're hopeful that things might be getting better by tomorrow (day 4 since the dose increase)

 

[Butterscotch's Pawrents]

I disagree with the vet.
You need to get the dental issues sorted now. They are not only stopping her eating, they could be contributing to the higher numbers.
We hear that so often here.. ‘get the cat regulated first’.... but it isn’t going to happen because the teeth are part of the problem.
Cats numbers are frequently much better once dental issues are sorted and poor Butterscotch can’t eat because her mouth hurts. I’ll bet the vet wouldn’t put up with a painful mouth for long before getting it fixed.
Be firm and say you want it attended to. If he won’t do it, I would find another vet who will.

So nervous about doing anything with her teeth.... I'm afraid if she goes under anesthesia she's not well enough to handle it and won't wake up. Also worried about the expense. I feel terrible though knowing she's proanly hurting.

 

[Margie and Jackson]

Your vet is afraid to do the dental work. I think her diabetes would improve if her dental health improves. Ask for a referral to a veterinary dentist. I’m using Petsmile toothpaste which I think can help, and a supplement called 1-tdc. My Jackson’s mouth is less sore now. He lets me brush and stick my fingers in his mouth. Good luck!

 

[Margie and Jackson]

Try tiki cat velvet mousse. Maybe it’s easier to eat. Very low carb.

 

[Butterscotch's Pawrents]

Try tiki cat velvet mousse. Maybe it’s easier to eat. Very low carb.

That's about the only thing she'll eat at the moment. Just worried what will happen in a few days when she decides she doesn't want that anymore either.

 

[Panic]

Can she drink just fine? I wonder if you can make her food soupy or puree will she be comfortable enough to just lick it up.

 

[Butterscotch's Pawrents]

Can she drink just fine? I wonder if you can make her food soupy or puree will she be comfortable enough to just lick it up.

She drinks a ton (sugars are not controlled yet). I have tried pureeing food and adding water, but once she decides she won't eat something it doesn't matter what I do to it.

 

[Butterscotch's Pawrents]

Today she refused to eat a specific can in the morning but when offered at night she ate it up no problem. I can't figure that out.

I had always thought the lip smacking, dropping food from her mouth, and turning her head to the side while chewing could be a dental problem. However when the vet looked in her mouth and didn't seem bothered but prescribed anti nausea meds I presumed her teeth weren't too bad. I think probably though it's multiple problems.
I hate thinking she is in pain and that that's causing her to be so picky about eating.
Feeling overwhelmed about how to solve all her problems.
Likely dental problems, possible nausea, super bloated (Xray shows ileus and slow moving GI contents and excess gas but vet has yet to shed let on what all this means for her), slipping and weak legs, not super interested in any activity/lethargic/zoning out, still drinking/peeing tons and high sugars (I know she's only been treated a couple weeks). It just seems like a lot going on and probably not just one problem.

She's our furbaby, had her for 11 years and no kids so she really is our everything. I can't bare the thought of losing her. But I have to look at quality of life for her and the time comittment/financial burden on us.
I don't want to spend thousands trying to make her better and find out we can't fix her. It wouldn't be right to put her through all of that and I can't afford paying thousands to just end up losing her.
I'm trying to look at her quality of life but I don't know if I'm just trying to convince myself.
She does groom a little, she likes belly rubs, started jumping up onto some of her favorite spots, batting at a couple toys, meowing a little and trying to be a little social, no accidents.
She does still hide a little, looks weak in her legs/slips, only walks short distances, lays a lot vs sitting, often eats while laying, always drinks while laying, bats at toys only while laying, seems a little restless, lays around zoning out, definitely withdrawn most of the day, little interest in watching birds and such outside, likely dental pain/nausea. We spend at least 2 hours twice a day trying to get her to eat food.
We've seen some improvement in the last week, but very little. I'm trying to be patient but it's hard to think of her suffering in the mean time and putting her through all of this at what cost. I can't be sure that she'll ever get her life back. We've spent the last two weeks dedicated almost solely to her and have been missing a lot of work. We want to do what's best for her, not what would be a selfish decision for us. It's terribly hard to be her advocate and choose what's right for her. We want to make the right choices.

Regarding dental.... I'm so worried to put her under anesthesia, I fear bringing her home after having teeth pulled will be aweful trying to get her to eat while things heal (it's already a nightmare), and what if this doesn't solve her eating problem or help with her blood sugars, and I don't know how expensive it all will be. Seems like a lot to put her through if it's not necessarily going to give her her life back.

Looking for thoughts, feedback, guidance from fellow kitty lovers.
Thank you all for answering all of our questions and guiding us as we go through this crazy new experience with our furbaby.

 

[JanetNJ]

So nervous about doing anything with her teeth.... I'm afraid if she goes under anesthesia she's not well enough to handle it and won't wake up. Also worried about the expense. I feel terrible though knowing she's proanly hurting.

Did they do blood work to see if there's infection? I bet she has a gum infection. Save up for the dental. In the meantime if there's infection they can do antibiotics and painkillers (bupe or Gabapentin). My old diabetic girl (16 now) has had 3 dentals in 3 years. She's always done fine under anesthesia.she's always eaten great after a dental. The pain of the cavities and infection is worse than the extractions.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

The slipping and not walking far is most likely diabetic neuropathy which a lot of cats with diabetes get. It will improve once the BG levels return to more normal levels. You can also give zobaline for cats to her to help with the problem. It is tasteless and you can sprinkle it on food. My Sheba had it badly but recovered fully once the BG levels improved

I agree with Janet about the dental. We regularly see cats have dentals. As Janet suggested, I would ask the vet about an antibiotic and pain meds as well until the dental. We can help you after the dental with advice and ideas.

She will pee and drink a lot while the BG levels are high. All cats will do that.
Have you tested for ketones? You can do that with Ketostix test strips which you dip in the urine.

I think the most pressing problem is the mouth. So I would get that sorted first. Ask for an antibiotic and pain meds til a dental can be arranged. If your vet won’t do it I would find another vet.

A dental won’t cost thousands and I think it could well solve a lot of your problems.

Then let her recover from the dental and see how she goes with eating and her BG levels. Hopefully she will eat much better and the peeing and drinking will reduce.

I remember when I had a back tooth that had cracked. Sometimes I could eat and other times I would get shooting pains in the tooth and there was no way I could eat. I was so thankful to have it fixed.

Diabetic cats do get their life back again. It is very early days yet for Butterscotch and it is always scary and confusing in the beginning.

 

[Margie and Jackson]

Today she refused to eat a specific can in the morning but when offered at night she ate it up no problem. I can't figure that out.

I had always thought the lip smacking, dropping food from her mouth, and turning her head to the side while chewing could be a dental problem. However when the vet looked in her mouth and didn't seem bothered but prescribed anti nausea meds I presumed her teeth weren't too bad. I think probably though it's multiple problems.
I hate thinking she is in pain and that that's causing her to be so picky about eating.
Feeling overwhelmed about how to solve all her problems.
Likely dental problems, possible nausea, super bloated (Xray shows ileus and slow moving GI contents and excess gas but vet has yet to shed let on what all this means for her), slipping and weak legs, not super interested in any activity/lethargic/zoning out, still drinking/peeing tons and high sugars (I know she's only been treated a couple weeks). It just seems like a lot going on and probably not just one problem.

She's our furbaby, had her for 11 years and no kids so she really is our everything. I can't bare the thought of losing her. But I have to look at quality of life for her and the time comittment/financial burden on us.
I don't want to spend thousands trying to make her better and find out we can't fix her. It wouldn't be right to put her through all of that and I can't afford paying thousands to just end up losing her.
I'm trying to look at her quality of life but I don't know if I'm just trying to convince myself.
She does groom a little, she likes belly rubs, started jumping up onto some of her favorite spots, batting at a couple toys, meowing a little and trying to be a little social, no accidents.
She does still hide a little, looks weak in her legs/slips, only walks short distances, lays a lot vs sitting, often eats while laying, always drinks while laying, bats at toys only while laying, seems a little restless, lays around zoning out, definitely withdrawn most of the day, little interest in watching birds and such outside, likely dental pain/nausea. We spend at least 2 hours twice a day trying to get her to eat food.
We've seen some improvement in the last week, but very little. I'm trying to be patient but it's hard to think of her suffering in the mean time and putting her through all of this at what cost. I can't be sure that she'll ever get her life back. We've spent the last two weeks dedicated almost solely to her and have been missing a lot of work. We want to do what's best for her, not what would be a selfish decision for us. It's terribly hard to be her advocate and choose what's right for her. We want to make the right choices.

Regarding dental.... I'm so worried to put her under anesthesia, I fear bringing her home after having teeth pulled will be aweful trying to get her to eat while things heal (it's already a nightmare), and what if this doesn't solve her eating problem or help with her blood sugars, and I don't know how expensive it all will be. Seems like a lot to put her through if it's not necessarily going to give her her life back.

Looking for thoughts, feedback, guidance from fellow kitty lovers.
Thank you all for answering all of our questions and guiding us as we go through this crazy new experience with our furbaby.

The vet can’t see the extent of the dental problems in one quick exam. You can see the problem better since you watch Butterscotch eat. Maybe you can ask the vet for pain medicine until you can learn more?

 

[Panic]

This may be slightly off topic but see if your vet is affiliated with Petlocity. It's an app that some vets use where you keep track of your pets and earn points based on your spending that grants you rewards. One of the rewards I have sitting in my account is a 10% off for dentals, among other things. Might help on the cost side of things.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

How are things today with Butterscotch?

 

[Butterscotch's Pawrents]

Did they do blood work to see if there's infection? I bet she has a gum infection. Save up for the dental. In the meantime if there's infection they can do antibiotics and painkillers (bupe or Gabapentin). My old diabetic girl (16 now) has had 3 dentals in 3 years. She's always done fine under anesthesia.she's always eaten great after a dental. The pain of the cavities and infection is worse than the extractions.

They did blood work full blood work on Aug 8 and didn't say anything about infection.
Good to hear that your kitty ate ok after extractions. I'd be so worried her eating would temporarily be worse.

 

[Butterscotch's Pawrents]

The slipping and not walking far is most likely diabetic neuropathy which a lot of cats with diabetes get. It will improve once the BG levels return to more normal levels. You can also give zobaline for cats to her to help with the problem. It is tasteless and you can sprinkle it on food. My Sheba had it badly but recovered fully once the BG levels improved

I agree with Janet about the dental. We regularly see cats have dentals. As Janet suggested, I would ask the vet about an antibiotic and pain meds as well until the dental. We can help you after the dental with advice and ideas.

She will pee and drink a lot while the BG levels are high. All cats will do that.
Have you tested for ketones? You can do that with Ketostix test strips which you dip in the urine.

I think the most pressing problem is the mouth. So I would get that sorted first. Ask for an antibiotic and pain meds til a dental can be arranged. If your vet won’t do it I would find another vet.

A dental won’t cost thousands and I think it could well solve a lot of your problems.

Then let her recover from the dental and see how she goes with eating and her BG levels. Hopefully she will eat much better and the peeing and drinking will reduce.

I remember when I had a back tooth that had cracked. Sometimes I could eat and other times I would get shooting pains in the tooth and there was no way I could eat. I was so thankful to have it fixed.

Diabetic cats do get their life back again. It is very early days yet for Butterscotch and it is always scary and confusing in the beginning.

Thank you for all the advice/suggestions and reassurance that what we're seeing is "normal" and has solutions/should get better. We have not tested ketones yet at home but at the vet she didn't have any yet.

 

[Butterscotch's Pawrents]

The vet can’t see the extent of the dental problems in one quick exam. You can see the problem better since you watch Butterscotch eat. Maybe you can ask the vet for pain medicine until you can learn more?

We wrote vet a detailed email and are waiting her reply. It is very difficult to reach her by phone.

 

[Butterscotch's Pawrents]

How are things today with Butterscotch?

AMPS was 447, the highest it's ever been. She ate a small portion well put was reluctant to eat anything else. Had to offer 3 different foods and took several hours to feed her enough to leave her home with insulin on board.
Hubby and I are becoming exhausted and are super anxious about feeding times.
Waiting to hear back from vet after we sent an email reiterating all of her eating symptoms. Vet is almost impossible to talk to via phone. This is the second vet we've seen for these current health issues and probably the 5th or so in her life. I hate having to keep looking for new vets and starting over and I feel hopeless that any new vet would be any better.