Beau - 9/26 update

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alicia.1771

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Boy it has been a while since my last post...Life has been very busy with work and packing/moving/unpacking and taking care of Beau on my own. We're still in the process of settling into our new space and I'm living amongst piles of boxes that have yet to be unpacked.

Where do I even begin? Let see...we have gone through a few dose reduction trials since mid August and Beau has dropped to the blue zone a few times on various doses (0.8, 1.2, 1.8, 2.0, 1.6, f1.2). The rest of the times he cruises in the yellow, pink, and red zones with an occasional black PS. We have not seen a green since 8/9 and it seems every time I try to increase his dose we get into the red/black zone even if he did not drop low at nadir. There is almost no consistency with him when it comes to dosage and BG #'s. A few times I felt like giving up but then he would give me a good day and hope to carry me on. Then the bad days come and the seemingly endless cycle continues. It's amazing how one can get used to the pink and red zones and be ecstatic to see yellow when before the yellow and blue zones were the norm.

Other happenings during this time: Beau had one bout of bloody urine in late August so we did an urine culture and abdominal x-ray to rule out UTI and stones and he was put on antibiotic Orbax once a day for 14 days. Both tests came back negative but we continued the antibiotic in preparation for his dental, which was done on 9/6 with a total of 3 extractions. His numbers looked promising after the dental, dropping to as low as 116 at nadir. Once the Orbax was finished he had a flat day and I started to decrease his dose since per vet his BG would be elevated while on Orbax and now we have taken care of possible infections (dental, bladder) I felt a dose reduction trial seemed reasonable since chronic rebound was always on the back of my head as he appeared to be quite sensitive to insulin from the beginning and would sometimes respond better to reduced doses. Looking back though I wish I had hold the doses a little longer on a few occasions instead of reacting to the BG readings. For example, if I had held the 2.0 for a few more days after 9/11 or the f1.2 after 9/19, we may have seen some better numbers (or not). But having done the dance for almost 3 months now it's still hard for me to hold the dose when the numbers are (seemingly) getting worse.

Anyway, fast forward to the present. I was feeling down again over the weekend because I just could not get Beau out of the high pink and red zones for most of the day and that for sure was not good for him. Our vet has commented that Beau is having duration issues with ProZinc since he can drop but just can't hold the drop for long and had suggested we switch to Lantus. I had thought about it on several occasions but had been too scared to go forward with the switch, not quite sure why, maybe it was the strict 12/12 schedule or the totally different mechanism of action between the 2 insulin. Either way, I was so frustrated with not been able to get him into a more regulated zone that I started reading up on Lantus over the weekend and had decided last night that we will go ahead with the switch and I was going to contact the vet for a prescription this week. Then what do you know, BAM! tonight he throws me a yellow PS!

Not sure why he’s giving me such good numbers tonight. I did notice before his PM feeding he was licking his mouth like he was having an upset stomach but he ate his dinner fine. At +2 check-up I found evidence of vomiting on the floor. He is one of those cats that eat his own vomit if there is food in it (yes, gross). But if the vomit only has liquid/bile he will leave it alone. I wonder if that contributed to the steep drop tonight? One thing I have also started doing differently this past week is adding water to his feedings (4x/day) which he seemed to enjoy quite a bit; and also injecting on the sides of the body further away from the shoulders. I don’t know. Beau is a mystery to me but I love him :-D

AMPS - 389
+5.5 - 260
PMPS - 292, 277, 315 (30 min span)
+2 - 247
+4 - 119 :shock: Looks like I will be up for a while…fed his normal pm snack
+5 - 106
+6 - 118 fed another 1/4 FFC as he seemed hungry

I'm almost afraid to even imagin what tomorrow's AMPS will be like. I really hope we are finally on to the path of regulation.
 
Hi Alicia,

Check back in today and tonight to see what responses you get. We are a small group and few people are around in the middle of the day. And your ss requires some study.

Nothing jumps out at me except the high pre shot numbers. He seems to often have a nice nadir with high or mid range pre shots. He could be a bouncer. Sometimes you can influence that with food. I do see several times when his numbers have been reduced because of vomiting (like today).

How does he eat? Does he graze all day and night or have fixed meal times? What are you feeding him and what treats does he eat?

Others are more comfortable with TID dosing and can tell you if he looks like a candidate. Although the time factor there might be an issue if you are worried about time constraints with Lantus.

We also have a few people giving different doses at am and pm. His amps seems pretty consistently high so that might be an option.

Let's see what others say.
 
Hi Sue!

Thanks for posting :)

AMPS 524 - not surprised but makes me wanna cry :cry:

Anyone know if bouncing is an "acquired" body reaction? The reason I ask is that Beau responded very well to ProZinc during the first 2 weeks of treatment and got into nice green nadir and never shot up high (at most only up to pink zone). The bouncing up and down seemed to start after the 3rd week in early August and does not seem to want to settle.

How do I influence the bounce with food? Right now he is fed 4x/day (see below) and gets 1 piece of Catswell Vitakitty Chicken treats after other mid-cycle tests only if performed. He has been maintaining his weight at 14 lbs (human scale at home with me).

AMPS - 1 Fancy Feast Classic (FFC) + 1/4 FFC after shot
~ +5-6 - 1/4 FFC + 1/2 Nature's Variety Instinct Medallion (IM)
PMPS - 1 FFC + 1/4 FFC after shot
~ +4-5 - 1/4 FFC + 1/2 IM

He used to be a hairball cat (average maybe ~ 3-4x/mo ?) but hasn't produced a real hairball since diagnosis, especially since I clipped his hair a few weeks ago to get better visibility during shots.

Someone else and our vet has mentioned TID for better control, but with my work schedule and no one else to help out it's hard enough to keep the 12/12 so TID is not really an option at this time...so that's why our vet recommended trying out Lantus instead.

Looking at his SS and he did seem to have higher AMPS but that trend seemed to disappear after 9/18. I wouldn't mind trying a different AM/PM dose or even a sliding scale but not for long as I'm starting to agree with our vet that ProZinc may not be suitable to get Beau regulated.

Would really appreciate any other feedback on Beau and possible options moving forward :)
 
Sounds like he has enough food day and night to even things out. What are the treats? Any change they are high carb?

There is nothing wrong with changing insulin if one is not working. I think, in general, we are seeing that ProZinc either works great within the first few months or it is a struggle. Wish we knew why. I would suggest you check out the Levemir forum also. (Not sure your vet would prescribe it but it is a lot like Lantus.) viewforum.php?f=10 It is a smaller forum and some people who use Lantus post there because there is more flexibility in testing and does not have so much traffic. (You might send Rob & Harley a pm and ask her about that. She uses Lantus and posts on Levemir.)

Check back in to see what others think.
 
Hi Alicia,
Some cats bounce when you keep changing the dose .... I know this is becoming the "thing" now but as you can see with Beau, he doesn't like all the changes. My Payne will bounce if I change her dose just once, so I try to be consistent as much as possible.

You are only feeding FF classic now? No grains or starches, low carb? I saw in SS that you had been also giving a gravy one, still? Some kitties are very sensitive to carbs, grains and starches and keeping the diet clean can help.

Going to one of the L's is certainly an option, I am wondering if you have tried lowering back to 0.5u? at any point? holding for 3-4 days and then slowly adjusting up? He seems to have done better at the lower doses but you have not been consistent with holding. You might have missed his dose.

Nancy and Payne
 
I kinda agree with Nancy cause I can not understand his numbers at all
and his dose kept changing..
I know Shakespeare always does better when I find a dose and stick to it....
If you do go with Levimir I wish you the best,
but please make sure to stop by...

Denise and Shakes
 
Hi Nancy & Denise!

Beau only gets Fancy Feast Classic and Instinct Medallion since we switched his food from dry to wet in July. The only gravy food he got was when he went into the hypo zone twice in early treatment. The food list you saw on the SS is just a legend I use for the food abbreviations in the chart. The treat is low-carb and part of the approved list with ingredients: Chicken Breast, Vitamin E Supplement, Flaxseed, Vitamin A Acetate. He gets just 1 tiny strip and only when I do additional testing, and I make he work for it by chasing little pieces of it to get some exercise in him. He's like a dog who like to chase treats.

Dropping the dose down and restarting has always been an option but I'm hesitant to do that again because logically, if we have past the correct dose and are overdosing, there should be more of lower nadirs caught somewhere as I have been very faithful testing daily and do curves on the weekends. I've held the 0.6 previously for 3 days followed by 0.8 for 3.5 days and we were mostly in the pink/red zone with very little drop at all except for a few evenings on the 0.8. But I just don't know for sure since I didn't hold the dose any longer than that. Holding a dose is not so easy when Beau seems to "grow out" of the good zones after a while on the same dose if you know what I mean...

I'll see what number he give me tonight. Last night was the BEST number he has given me in a very long time so I want to hold the 2.0 for a few more days to see if he settles into it. I measure his water intake and urine/appetite daily so that also helps me to know if he is getting better/worse on the dose.
 
Wow, I could have written this. We are going through exactly the same thing. He got good number in the beginning and then quickly started becoming difficult. Just in the past week or so I started getting concerned about chronic rebound. Kept getting BG spikes around +8 and +10 and then the PS would be lower. Also higher flat numbers for the whole cycle. He had a dental with extractions on 8/12 and I had high hopes that it would solve some problems, but no.

I've gotten a little better results with my dose reduction test but not what I want to see and it's not consistent :sad: We may be switching insulin soon, too. I totally and completely understand your frustrations.
 
hi Alicia,

I have been following your posts and Beau's ss which reminds me of my callie ! I have all the same proablems as you and I'm at my wits end I also talked to my vet about switching callie's insulin to lantus , the thought scares me! also talked about going tid... I don't have any advice for you but just wanted to let you know your not the only one having problems I hate this dance :( I wish you very very much luck with Beau I will watch and see how you are doing and if I try anything with callie and it works I will let you know, hang in there ! :YMHUG: cat_pet_icon cat_pet_icon
 
Thank you all4mymarine and calliecat for sharing. It's comforting to know I'm not the only one struggling with getting my cat regulated on ProZinc. It's a tough situation getting used to an insulin that's not working as expected and needing to think about switching to something new and unfamiliar.

Now that the big move is over I'm hoping to spend more time on the board and posting more frequently. If I find something working for my Beau I will for sure share with all of you!
 
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