BCP PZI Insulin Junk so probably move on to something else.

[manxcat419]

Sorry, I had to dash out to work - I was getting close to running late. I've been feeding the Turkey and Giblets Special Diet a lot as all our cats seem to like that one. But I've also bought the Beef and Chicken Entree flavor a few times - it's not quite as low in phosphorus, but it's the same carb level. They all seem to like that one too and it's a different flavor if Poopers is getting bored with the Turkey and Giblets flavor. They're the same kind of pate food as the Friskies Classic pates but are lower in phosphorus as well as being low carb. Locally to us Fred Meyer stock 3 or 4 of the Special Diet flavors though Walmart only seem to have the Turkey and Giblet one.

Again, with fish, if it's in small quantities in a can of food, I don't worry about it too much - for a bit Rosa would only eat tuna or tuna and egg flavor flaked food and she was still able to get into good numbers on that. I prefer not to give a food that's mostly fish, but I don't think small amounts do that much harm.

With carb levels, all cats are different. Rosa seems to do just fine on anything between 4% and 9% carbs. But if I feed anything above 12% when her numbers get a bit low, she'll shoot up from the low 40s to the low 90s in half an hour. Some cats seem to need around 5%, some do better on the very lowest carb food you can find. I think it's all a bit of trial and error to find out what suits the individual cat.

 

[bsmith]

So what special diet cat food from friskies do you feed? I only seen the Turkey and Giblet special diet so didn't know how low of carbs the food is. I am only feeding Pooper's Turkey and Giblets FF classic and would love to find a variety to feed him so that he isn't just getting stuck with one food only.

Does the Pooper have kidney issues? That's the only reason that you would need to stick to the Friskies special diet since it has low phosphorus. If he doesn't have kidney issues you can go with any of Friskies canned foods that are low carb. Dr. Pierson's page here lists a whole bunch of different canned foods and their nutritional contents. If he doesn't have kidney or other food/medical issues there are a number of low carb (under 10%) options available.

Sorry, I had to dash out to work - I was getting close to running late. I've been feeding the Turkey and Giblets Special Diet a lot as all our cats seem to like that one. But I've also bought the Beef and Chicken Entree flavor a few times - it's not quite as low in phosphorus, but it's the same carb level. They all seem to like that one too and it's a different flavor if Poopers is getting bored with the Turkey and Giblets flavor. They're the same kind of pate food as the Friskies Classic pates but are lower in phosphorus as well as being low carb. Locally to us Fred Meyer stock 3 or 4 of the Special Diet flavors though Walmart only seem to have the Turkey and Giblet one.

Again, with fish, if it's in small quantities in a can of food, I don't worry about it too much - for a bit Rosa would only eat tuna or tuna and egg flavor flaked food and she was still able to get into good numbers on that. I prefer not to give a food that's mostly fish, but I don't think small amounts do that much harm.

Yup, it's all Friskies special diet Turkey and Giblets and Beef and Chicken Entree for Edwin all the time. I have to balance low carb (diabetes), low phosphorus (Stage 2 kidney failure), and no fish (BG spiking) so I'm kind of limited. There's also a special diet beef and liver entree that would work, but I've been unable to find it locally. I've been combing through Dr. Pierson's list trying to find more options that will work. Have you noticed slightly higher BG numbers with the beef and chicken versus the chicken and giblet, or is that just me?

 

[manxcat419]

I haven't noticed any significant difference between the flavors, but then Rosa doesn't seem to spike even when she gets tuna flavor food - I thought she had been when I first got her to eat the Turkey and Giblet flavor, but when I tested back the other way, it didn't make any difference at all so I think it was just coincidence that she was ready to go lower just as I managed to get her to switch foods. I try and keep it low-phosphorus most of the time because although she doesn't have kidney failure, the vet did say that her BUN level was elevated when she was diagnosed diabetic so I'm playing it safe most of the time. And we do have a CKD kitty who of course wants whatever food the others have, so we're trying to keep it safe for her too! I don't recall seeing the beef and liver flavor anywhere around here - of course the 'in gravy' one is out but I think I've seen everything except the beef and liver in one store or another.

The other food I've fed some of the time is the 9 Lives flaked as that's low carb and low phosphorus - but unfortunately, they're all tuna-based flavors so wouldn't work for Edwin. It is tricky to find a good selection of foods that are low in both carbs and phosphorus - most brands seem to be one or the other or just not widely available.

 

[bsmith]

@manxcat419, I'd like to try and see if Edwin's fish issues are fish specific, but, after the recent disastrous experiment in switching dry foods, I think I'll hold off for a bit. It would be nice if he didn't have a tuna issue as he really likes that Friskies tuna and egg. Plus it would really open up his canned food options.

 

[Vyktors Mum]

Can you black out the personal info on the vial with a marker and then post a pic? Along with a pic of your syringes.

Dry food will not be helping and dental issues can make regulation near on impossible but something sounds wrong here.

Lantus will last for about 6 months (some people have got even longer) if refrigerated and handled correctly, i.e. you do not shake or roll it, you do not inject air into it, you do not inject insulin back into it. If you do change check out the sticky on how to handle it correctly in the lantus/levemir forum before you touch it. Many people screw up their first vial/cartridge by not handling it correctly.

 

[manxcat419]

That tuna and egg is the one thing I can guarantee both of my 2 will eat if everything else fails! I always have a few cans of that in the pantry in case they decide to have a day where they don't want anything else I offer. I was a bit worried when I thought it was spiking Rosa's BG because I had no idea what I'd use as an 'emergency' food for her picky days instead. I agree with not changing the food too much or too often though - I think it's a good idea to let everything settle before trying another change. I don't give either of my 2 anything shellfish based because that doesn't seem to make either of them feel good (though I'd realized that a long time ago so I don't know if it would affect Rosa's BG), so it might be that Edwin could tolerate some types of fish but not others. With any luck, the tuna will be something he can eat at least once in a while, especially if it's something he really likes.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

That's the only reason that you would need to stick to the Friskies special diet since it has low phosphorus. If he doesn't have kidney issues you can go with any of Friskies canned foods that are low carb.

There is also the possibility of using phosphorous binders.
I'm not sure if this is something that would be suitable for Pooper; but many of us with CRF kitties use ordinary cat foods with binder added to reduce phosphorous absorption. If it is something that could work for Pooper then it would give you many more options food-wise.

Here's a link to some info on phosphorous control from the excellent 'Tanya' CRF site:
http://www.felinecrf.org/phosphorus.htm

Eliz

 

[bsmith]

There is also the possibility of using phosphorous binders.
I'm not sure if this is something that would be suitable for Pooper; but many of us with CRF kitties use ordinary cat foods with binder added to reduce phosphorous absorption. If it is something that could work for Pooper then it would give you many more options food-wise.

Here's a link to some info on phosphorous control from the excellent 'Tanya' CRF site:
http://www.felinecrf.org/phosphorus.htm

Eliz

Thanks for pointing this out to me. (I'm not the original poster, but this thread is going over some good information on canned foods for CRF.) I've spent some time on Tanya's CRF website, but there is quite a bit of information there and I have not worked all the way through it yet. (Thanks again to Tanya for all her hard work in putting that site together. It's a treasure trove of information.)

For Edwin, I'm still feeding Hill's dry k/d. He likes it and has been on it a few years, but with diabetes, it's 44% carbs, it's not ideal. The canned food I'm giving is only a 1/4 can a day, but I recently upped it to a 1/3 can a day as he's lost some weight and I'm trying to get him to eat a bit more. I plan to soon try to switch him to Young Again Zero Carb Mature Health, which will address his diabetes, CRF (0.5% phosphorus), and fish issue (BG spiking). I'm so glad that Young Again has just recently come out with this option. It's not on their website yet, but they sent me a sample and another poster here gave me the nutritional data for this food, which she was sent by one of their reps.

What binders do you have experience with? When you use them do you still try to stick to lower/mid-range phosphorus canned foods?

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

What binders do you have experience with? When you use them do you still try to stick to lower/mid-range phosphorus canned foods?

Hi,

My own experience of phosphorous binders is limited to just one type; aluminium hydroxide (often sold as 'Alu-Caps'). It seems to be completely tasteless.
I do try to stick to the lowest phosphorous ordinary foods that my cats find palatable; and aim to strike a balance between foods that are sufficiently low carb for my diabetic boy Bertie, and are relatively low in phosphorous so they suit my CRF foster kitty as well (with a little binder added to each of his meals).

Eliz

 

[rbrumbaugh82]

Ok everyone I know this is a long forum but I took a pic of my vial to show you how much I have left. Does it look right?

 

[Larry and Kitties]

That photo is as I suspected. You said you only ordered 5 ml so initially it would have been less than half full and now it is just a little lower since you used less than one ml so far.

 

[manxcat419]

I'm not sure. How full was the bottle to begin with? I only ask because, compared to the syringe next to it, that looks about the same size as the 10ml vial of Lantus I have. I'm wondering if they put a 5ml sample in a 10ml bottle, so it would only have been half full when you got it.

 

[manxcat419]

That photo is as I suspected. You said you only ordered 5 ml so initially it would have been less than half full and now it is just a little lower since you used less than one ml so far.

OK, so that is the answer. Looked like the only possible explanation to me!

 

[Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)]

Larry is right. I'd be willing to bet there's still 400 units left, at least.

 

[rbrumbaugh82]

Trust me, there is not enough for 400 units left in that bottle.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

Based on your photos yes there is. 400 units is 4 ml and the vial when full to top holds about 12 ml

 

[rbrumbaugh82]

Well I don't believe I have 400 units with this particular order.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

If you place the vial on a flat surface measure how far up from the the surface is the insulin level. I will then take that measurement and fill an empty vial of BCP that I have to determine how much you have left.

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

Larry is right. I'd be willing to bet there's still 400 units left, at least.

I agree, there is about 400 units in there. That is why I also asked for a photo of your syringe with a mark for your normal dose. We want to make sure you are using the correct mark on your syringe. You probably are, but we have had new members using the numbers on the syringe as a unit instead of the lines between the numbers.

 

[rbrumbaugh82]

Nope I know they are half unit syringes and there is a total of 30 units. I am attaching picture to show.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

We are talking about how many units are left in the insulin vial

 

[Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)]

Nope I know they are half unit syringes and there is a total of 30 units. I am attaching picture to show.

Thank you for posting the pic of the syringe and you are correct. The first actual number on the scale is the "5 unit" mark. It can hold up to 30 units, and has marks for both whole and half unit doses.

Years ago when my ex worked for a vet, I saw a kitty that died from an overdose of insulin because the vet tech didn't know how to read an insulin dose on a syringe. If I remember right, the dose was supposed to be "2.0" units. She drew up "20" on the syringe. The tech had never used an insulin syringe before. It was a horrible thing to see happen, especially because the kitty was just being boarded for the week.

 

[rbrumbaugh82]

Lisa wanted to see the kind of syringes that I am using so that is why I enclosed a picture. I just took another picture of the vial so you can see how much would be left.

 

[rbrumbaugh82]

Thank you for posting the pic of the syringe and you are correct. The first actual number on the scale is the "5 unit" mark. It can hold up to 30 units, and has marks for both whole and half unit doses.

Years ago when my ex worked for a vet, I saw a kitty that died from an overdose of insulin because the vet tech didn't know how to read an insulin dose on a syringe. If I remember right, the dose was supposed to be "2.0" units. She drew up "20" on the syringe. The tech had never used an insulin syringe before. It was a horrible thing to see happen, especially because the kitty was just being boarded for the week.

OMG! I can't believe that happening. I am very cautious when it comes to this.

 

[Critter Mom]

@Carl & Polly & Bob (GA) - Heartbreaking.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

If you place the vial on a flat surface measure how far up from the the surface is the insulin level. I will then take that measurement and fill an empty vial of BCP that I have to determine how much you have left.

You did not provide a measurement, just a photo. How far up from the table is the level? Inches or cm.

 

[rbrumbaugh82]

Oops sorry. I measured it roughly .75 inches from bottom to top.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

3/4 of an inch off the bottom of the via is about 450 units (4 1/2 ml)

 

[rbrumbaugh82]

Just doesn't seem like there would still be that many units left if even 200 units left.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

I took my empty BCP vial and used a 3 ml syringe to fill it up to 3/4 inch above the bottom and that required 4 1/2 ml.