Bailey uk amps 490 + 481 :-(

[anna and bailey.uk england]

can anyone shed any light to my boys high readings today?
his foods stayed he same,weve had a relaxing day,no stress here ;-)
can lantus go off even though its been stored in the fridge door.it looks clear,no floaty bits.it looks fine but I have had it about 7/8 weeks. or do you think he could perhaps just be having an off day.hes lethargic and drinking more but apart from that he doesn't seem poorly or anything

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Re: Bailey uk amps 27.2 +2 24.2 :-(

Hey Anna!!

First, I see you just got a new AlphaTrac meter. Not sure why you got one or have you been using an Alpha the whole time? Most of us just use human meters due to the outrageous prices of the replacement strips.

IF you've been using the Alpha this whole time, PLEASE add that to your signature. Use a larger font and different color so it's very obvious. Wouldn't hurt to put it on your spreadsheet too (You can use the "Remarks" section)

Second, it looks like you increased the dose this morning to 3.25. That's what I would have suggested too!

I also looks like last night's possible furshot WAS a furshot! He's high today because he either didn't get any last night, or only got a little.

Also, on 3/21 the only number you entered is the AMPS...it's possible later in that cycle or the PMPS cycle, he went low and then bounced, but my first thought would be the higher numbers are due to the furshot.

Good luck with the dosecrease!

 

[anna and bailey.uk england]

Re: Bailey uk amps 27.2 +2 24.2 :-(

thanks chris and china.ive been using the alpha trak from the start as it only needs o.3ml of blood.the lowest they do and our human metres need more blood than that.im honestly not bothered about the money I just want him right! as long as the metres accurate I don't care
we'll see what this new dose increase brings.its a roller coaster all this but hes worth it.hes currently snuggled on my chest on the sofa which hes hasn't done for a very long time!i wish there was just an instant cure for this horrible disease.il keep trucking on!!!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: Bailey uk amps 27.2 +2 24.2 :-(

Just a reminder, we don't read metric well here. It's best to put numbers in US format in your subject line.

What I suspect is that Bailey may be bouncing. There's a good chance that he may bounce off of yellow numbers depending on where he started at pre-shot times. Also, with no spot checks on the 21st, there's no telling what happened. Give your current dose a chance to see how well it's doing -- a minimum of 3 days at this dose and then you can evaluate.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Re: Bailey uk amps 27.2 +2 24.2 :-(

OK great!

Go ahead and add that you're using the AlphaTrak to your signature (In larger, different colored font) and on your spreadsheet

Good luck with the dosecrease!

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Re: Bailey uk amps 27.2 +2 24.2 :-(

Anna, Bailey's numbers today are AMPS 490 +2 436. Being from Canada I know the translation, but it helps the others to put those numbers in the subject line.

I agree with Sienne on the bouncing. Bailey seems to take 3-4 cycles to clear a bounce and that could have happened on the 21st when there were no other tests. Another reason some of us use the human meters is that it is very easy to get replacements almost any time and any day in case you run out, rather than having to wait for the vet office to open. I have a backup meter of a different brand/type, just in case I run out of strips.

Good luck with the increase, I hope you see more blues soon.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Re: Bailey uk amps 27.2 +2 24.2 :-(

Hi Anna!

Chris is right, you're going to have to keep it in our faces that Bailey us using an AT2. Otherwise, most everyone will assume it's a human meter.

The numbers are roughly 30pts (american) less than you're seeing on the AT. Here is the link to the protocol that has AT numbers listed on pages 4-5.http://www.felinediabetes.com/Roomp_Rand_2008 dosing_testing protocol.pdf

Chris' guess that the furshot is responsible for the ugly numbers this morning is probably right on. Ordinarily, when you have a fur shot you start counting cycles over again, but Bailey looks like an increase was due before last night. i would encourage you to only stay 6 cycles at a dose before increasing unless you start seeing blue numbers, then you would slow down a bit.

From this point on, you want to do increases in 0.5u increments. Once they've passed 3.0u doses, the protocol suggests that using 0.5u increases is a little more effective in moving blood sugar numbers down unless you are close to a good dose and just fine-tuning. It's not on the guidelines below, but it is in the link i posted above for you.

Increasing the dose:

Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.
if your cat is new to numbers under 200, it is recommended to hold the dose for at least 8-10 cycles before increasing.
when your cat starts to see nadirs under 100, hold the dose for at least 10 cycles before increasing.

After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.

After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.

 

[anna and bailey.uk england]

Ive changed the metric.i forget.got a memory like a sieve ive also added the alphatrak to my signature in a nice girly pink!
I did do spot checks on the 21st but they were all over the place as my metre was playing up so not sure whether the numbers were correct or not hence me not putting them up.have a new metre which ive tested as is definitely correct!
thanks for your replies.it helps to know youre out there :razz:

 

[anna and bailey.uk england]

hi Julie, so if I hold this 3.25 for 6 cycles with no blue numbers should I then increase by 0.5u to 3.75 or should I up to 3.5 tonight as hes been on 3u for so long (the vet thinks hes on 4 u anyway but wanted to do this safely and by the protocol) sorry to ask so many questions.i just worry im doing the right thing

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

your choice. his numbers are pretty bad, so maybe i would go ahead and go up to 3.5. and then hold that for 6 cycles. it's easier to measure the half unit than the quarters anyway.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Julie, since she just increased to 3.25 this morning, are you saying she could go ahead and go up to 3.5 tonight without waiting 6 cycles? (or maybe 4 to fast track?)

I understand the reasoning behind the higher increase (.5 instead of .25) but since she just did the .25 increase, should she wait or go ahead and increase again tonight?

Learning opportunity here

 

[anna and bailey.uk england]

Im due to give his shot in 45minutes. im going to go with 3.5u as im off the next few days so can monitor thn let see how we go at that for the 6 cycles.everydays a blomin learning curve for me :lol:

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

sorry to leave you hanging! i fell over on the sofa and was out cold for a couple of hours! Sunday afternoon here and i was in the sunshine - a deadly combination if you want to be productive! :lol:

i've raised the question about his dose and spreadsheet with a couple of others. i think it's fine that you shot him already, but let's see if some collective eyes on him will bring about some insights.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Anna, we're wondering about the data you're thinking is wrong from 3/21? can you give us that data?

the reason we're curious is because if he got low, it's possible he was clearing a bounce.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

Re: Bailey uk amps 27.2 +2 24.2 :-(

The numbers are roughly 30pts (american) less than you're seeing on the AT. Here is the link to the protocol that has AT numbers listed on pages 4-5.http://www.felinediabetes.com/Roomp_Rand_2008 dosing_testing protocol.pdf

From this point on, you want to do increases in 0.5u increments. Once they've passed 3.0u doses, the protocol suggests that using 0.5u increases is a little more effective in moving blood sugar numbers down unless you are close to a good dose and just fine-tuning. It's not on the guidelines below, but it is in the link i posted above for you.

julie, fyi: you're working with outdated information.

recent info published in 2013 (link found in the "TR Protocol" and "Info, Proper Handling, & Storage" Stickies) :

• roomp & rand have narrowed down the difference between a human meter and a meter for feline use to "about 18" in the target range (low range). Note: that's the low range only. with everything we know about the accuracy of meters, one could expect larger differences in higher ranges. see the explanation on page 254 of the document. they're stating a 30%-40% difference.

• the protocol, as listed in tables 2 and 3, make no mention of implementing a 0.5u dose increase once the dose surpasses 3 units. basically, all they're saying is to give consideration to whether kitty is on a high or low dose of insulin when making dose adjustments. right or wrong... historically... in this forum... we've never really talked about a dose being high until it reaches about 5u or 6u. we also give due consideration to the individual kitty's response. when something works... why change it?

wanted to throw these things out there for your information and consideration... before you and the others you're working with formulate a dosing plan.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Anna, i apologize. i will defer to Sienne & Wendy's expertise - I can take a long time to write a post when i'm looking up info to quote, and i think i was looking for information for you while they must've been posting and i didn't see their posts.

Sienne was saying to hold your current dose and give it a chance to see what it does.

I am curious about the numbers you thought were wrong on the 21st, so if you could post those it would be helpful. Perhaps putting them in the ss with a note in the comments section that says you aren't sure they are accurate.