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Cherie Hogan

Cherie Hogan

Member Since 2016
Hello again all,

Today was a very bad day for Riley. He will not eat at all. He will not drink at all. In sheer frustration, I took an eyedropper and force fed him the phosphorus binder and then tried to force feed him some food and used the eyedropper again to get some water into him. It's all I can do. I got the Nutrived into him and hoped it would give him some strength but he is just wasting away. We are holding him tight but at this rate he will be gone in a few days. So very sad.
 
That really stinks. I get sad and angry all at the same time, when this happens to one of us. Sending both of you all the good energy I can muster. Hugs for you and Riley. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I'm very sorry, Cherie.

If he isn't eating food, the binder won't do any good so you can save you both the difficulty. The binder doesn't bring his phosphorus level down, it binds the P in the food so it is not available to him.

I'm just heartbroken for you that he's feeling so bad. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Oh no, just now reading this. I'm so sorry Riley isn't feeling good enough to eat or drink right now.
I'm just hoping for some kind of miracle that can turn things around for him.
Sending much love and hope your way :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Oh Cherie, I am so sorry that Riley is doing so poorly. Sending tons of prayers and vines that his situation will somehow turn around.
cat praying.jpg

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
{{{Cherie}}}

My heart hurts for you. I know how much you love Riley, and that he loves you. It's a big risk we take, giving our hearts to these little furry creatures, because we know the chances are very good that we will one day have to let them go. Cherish the time you have left with Riley. Try to keep him comfortable and tell him everything you want him to know. He will understand.

We are all here for you. I hope you can feel the virtual hugs. :bighug:
 
Riley is still alive this morning although in the same shape. He faded rather quickly after me giving him the third 1.25 ml dose of the Nitrived all at about twelve hours apart so as not to upset his stomach as I knew he was starting to go off his food. I thought it would at least give him some energy and help his little body recover. It seems to have done the opposite. Is it possible it made him sicker? He seemed to be a little bettet until I started force feeding all this stuff into him and my husband is furious saying why can't you just leave him alone. I got up this morning and he did drink a little water on his own this morning and licked at his low phosphorus food. Should I try to get a little more Nutrived into him and maybe some potassium? I'm just worried that this would be on an empty stomach or should I just leave him alone?
 
Cherie Hogan said:
Riley is still alive this morning although in the same shape. He faded rather quickly after me giving him the third 1.25 ml dose of the Nitrived all at about twelve hours apart so as not to upset his stomach as I knew he was starting to go off his food. I thought it would at least give him some energy and help his little body recover. It seems to have done the opposite. Is it possible it made him sicker? He seemed to be a little bettet until I started force feeding all this stuff into him and my husband is furious saying why can't you just leave him alone. I got up this morning and he did drink a little water on his own this morning and licked at his low phosphorus food. Should I try to get a little more Nutrived into him and maybe some potassium? I'm just worried that this would be on an empty stomach or should I just leave him alone?
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At this point is more important he eat anything.... Don't worry about the phosphorus content, just anything he will eat. He may not want to chew so puree the food and make it soupy. When my cat had a pancreatitis flare all he would eat on his own was a Delctables pouch.... It's a gravy cat treat.
 
Cherie, I am so sorry that you and Riley are going through this Have you tried Baby food, pain chicken, or turkey or ham without any vegetables in it That will usually get Bubba eating when he has a GI upset . Sending vine :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Keeping you and Riley in our prayers and hoping for the best. Just know that we're here for you regardless of the outcome.
 
Cherie Hogan said:
Should I at least try to get a little vitamin b and potassium in him this morning?
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I'm not sure about that myself...hopefully someone else will be able to answer.

Is Riley on anything for nausea - cerenia or ondansetron? That might help if nausea is causing him to feel yucky, and elevated phos will make them feel yucky like that.
 
if you can, ask your vet immediately for ondansetron ( human drug taken to your own pharmacy ) and cyproheptadine ( given 30 minutes after the ondansetron)

also, start thinking of other things that might entice him....

fried chicken gets the attention of some kitties ( obviously peel off the fried skin)
deli meats - pastrami , turkey, even ham if you can get some without sugar
scrambled egg
cheese - cheddar, monterey jack

human tuna or shrimp ( mine loved raw shrimp)

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I'm sorry to hear Riley is feeling so badly.
Have you spoken to your vet and what does he/she suggest you can do to help your boy? We are here for you and I'm hoping for a miracle for both of you.:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:sending hugs and healing vines.
 
rhiannon and shadow (GA) said:
if you can, ask your vet immediately for ondansetron ( human drug taken to your own pharmacy ) and cyproheptadine ( given 30 minutes after the ondansetron)

also, start thinking of other things that might entice him....

fried chicken gets the attention of some kitties ( obviously peel off the fried skin)
deli meats - pastrami , turkey, even ham if you can get some without sugar
scrambled egg
cheese - cheddar, monterey jack

human tuna or shrimp ( mine loved raw shrimp)

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
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What do those two drugs do? And should I go ahead and give Nutrived this morning and a little potassium? I intend on leaving down the Weruva low phos food this morning. Hoping I can feed this food short term to my other cats with no side affects.
 
Thanks. So far he isn't throwing up. He has been hungry this morning and has eaten the low phos Weruva and is drinking water. He has had more hair and muscle loss but is walking around a little. I want to give him the vitamins and potassium to help him. Has anyone ever mixed the potassium in water and syringed your cat with it? I don't want to burn his throat. He seems to take the yucky Nutrived ok but I don't want to syringe him with the potassium if it will burn or hurt him or shouldn't be given in combination with the Zobaline or Nutrived.
 
tagging
@Marje and Gracie to help you with potassium.

watch for any sign of nausea....
often it is so subtle that we miss it until we learn how to recognize it.
they will ask for food, and when you offer some, they will sniff it ( sometimes doing the tiniest little lip smack ) and turn away.....

ondansetron is an anti-nausea drug that was developed for cancer patients but somewhere along the way, it was discovered that
it really helps cats with nausea ( imho, better than Cerenia)
your vet may also be willing to let you give Cerenia shots yourself but it stings. And a cat that isn't throwing up can take it by pill.

ondansetron is best with a 4 mg pill and you give 1/4 ( so 1 mg) in the morning and again at night.
after you address the nausea, then if needed you can give cyproheptadine to stimulate appy.
a lot of vets prefer mirtzapine but we call it meowzapine because it makes them fussy ....
mine would eat and then keep pestering me for more.... it doesn't seem to get to a satiation point..... they just keep begging for more
food even tho' they've eaten and eaten.

I told my vet to just let me try it instead of what she wanted to do and she agreed. After all, you employ them for help.
 
As Rhiannon pointed out...they might not necessarily throw up if they are nauseated, but they will feel yucky and not want to eat. With Riley's phos has high as it has been, I wouldn't be surprised if he's nauseated. Hopefully your vet will give you either cerenia or ondansetron to address the possibility of nausea.

Potassium can cause upset stomach, muscle weakness, and loss of appetite; however, I personally have no first-hand experience with using it, so I'm just pulling the info from here: Potassium side effects ....just something to consider and further delve into.

Personally, I would try addressing possible nausea first - if he is nauseated and it's corrected with ondansetron or cerenia, other issues, such as supplements and food, may be a little easier to address.
 
I am so sorry. Hugs to you, vines for Riley.

And yes on the potassium mixed in water. I had to administer it that way with Mannie when he was so sick,. it was the only way to get it in him. It was given to him this way via syringe, a few squirts until it was in him. I used to mix it with baby food, until he caught on, and refused to eat "doctored" food. We did not have a problem with it causing stomach upset. Good luck.
 
Sending :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
Reading your posts perhaps your gut is right, he seemed to take a not great turn with the addition of the nutrived? Maybe hold off on that one would be something I would consider if the dots connect to it and see if it makes a difference. It may be there is something in it his system doesn't agree with. He needs to eat and if something interferes with that I'd look twice at giving it..just my two cents here. It's good he was up drinking some, licking the food and moving about:bighug::bighug:
Sending huge vines and hugs to you, this is so hard:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I have not had to give potassium so I will leave it to those who have, like Michelle, to offer the best advice.

I know you don't want to hear this but, if this were my kitty, I'd at the very least, be talking to my vet if not having him into the vet. We are not vets here and we can't see Riley. There could be something else going on that would take a vet to determine.

I do send a ton of prayers and hope that he will start to eat and feel better. I think whatever is going on with him is not because of the supplements but because of a condition, be it CKD or something else.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
He was so sick last night that I didn't test him. At 9 am I had tested him and he was 97 so I gave him a .25 unit of Lantus. I am wondering if he crashed as a few hours after the shot is when he started to get really sick. I had given him the Zobaline and the Nutrived and the Nutrived was something new so I thought he might be having a reaction to it. He went downhill all day and rather than test him, he was so ill, that I just syringed the phosphorus binder in him and some juice from the cat food and some water at the pm time I usually ear test him. I only slept about 4 hours and when I got up it looked like he had eaten and peed in the litter box. He was walking around and I fed him twice this morning and when I ear tested him he was only at 54. I started becoming concerned that maybe he had gone too low yesterday when I saw the 54 a full 24 hours after his last shot.

I did decide to get about .75 ml of Nutrived and one Zobaline in him because he is so weak and hopefully with the food he ate he'll not get sick and look better when I get home. I will be way more careful with the Lantus as it looks like Riley is in remission, however his weight is way down and he doesn't look good. I am going to try my best to get him well again.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I have not had to give potassium so I will leave it to those who have, like Michelle, to offer the best advice.

I know you don't want to hear this but, if this were my kitty, I'd at the very least, be talking to my vet if not having him into the vet. We are not vets here and we can't see Riley. There could be something else going on that would take a vet to determine.

I do send a ton of prayers and hope that he will start to eat and feel better. I think whatever is going on with him is not because of the supplements but because of a condition, be it CKD or something else.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Yes, Riley is CKD and I just had his blood work done last week. The phosphorus binder and potassium supplements and Nutrived are all a result of the findings on the blood tests. I ear tested him this morning and he may have gone too low yesterday when I gave him .25 unit of Lantus at 9am because his BG was 97 yesterday and he went 24 hours without a test or shot and his BG this morning was only 54. As I looked at his number this morning that is the conclusion I am coming to.
 
Michelle and Mannie (GA) said:
I am so sorry. Hugs to you, vines for Riley.

And yes on the potassium mixed in water. I had to administer it that way with Mannie when he was so sick,. it was the only way to get it in him. It was given to him this way via syringe, a few squirts until it was in him. I used to mix it with baby food, until he caught on, and refused to eat "doctored" food. We did not have a problem with it causing stomach upset. Good luck.
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Thanks so much for letting me know I can safely do this with the potassium. He is down to about 10 lbs now and the vet told me to give him 1/4 teaspoon a day. Does this sound right to you?
 
Cherie Hogan said:
Thanks so much for letting me know I can safely do this with the potassium. He is down to about 10 lbs now and the vet told me to give him 1/4 teaspoon a day. Does this sound right to you?
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Also, can you tell me what baby food you fed? Riley is both diabetic and CKD so he needs both low phosphorus and low carb food.
 
Unless you are working VERY closely with your vet, I would not give potassium supplements. Both potassium and sodium are necessary for the nervous system and muscles to function properly. Giving too much potassium without careful monitoring of laboratory values could result in a cardiac problem.
 
Have you joined the Facebook cats with Chronic Renal Failure board? They may be able to help
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I know you don't want to hear this but, if this were my kitty, I'd at the very least, be talking to my vet if not having him into the vet. We are not vets here and we can't see Riley. There could be something else going on that would take a vet to determine.

I do send a ton of prayers and hope that he will start to eat and feel better. I think whatever is going on with him is not because of the supplements but because of a condition, be it CKD or something else.
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Cherie, everyone's trying to help because we care, but none of us are vets. We're not there. Everyone is trying to help by making suggestions that may help or may inadvertently hinder Riley's progress. Like Marje, I'm worried about the latter. There could be something else going on that would take a vet's expertise to diagnosis/determine. Please talk to your vet... or better yet, take Riley in to be seen so his current condition can be assessed by a professional.

Sending positive thoughts...
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I ask for your help because I don't know what else to do. I just had him to the vet. He had blood work, a urinalysis, blood pressure test. I took both the phosphorus binder and potassium supplements to the vet. He said 1/4 teaspoon a day of the potassium. I haven't given Riley near that much. The phosphorus binder, according to the directions on the jar, says one scoop a day. I also haven't been able to get much of that in him either. The Nutrived is 2.5 ml per day based on weight. Marje looked at Riley's panels and I trust her more than the vet but she explained Riley's results to me. At this point, the only thing I can do is throw out everything I bought and give him what the vet will try to sell me. He is on a low phosphorus low carb Weruva food and so are the other two cats because they eat each other's food. Hopefully they won't be harmed by eating the Weruva for a few days.
 
I would follow your vet's recommendation on the amount of potassium. With Neko, the potassium gluconate came with a little scoop to be used for measurement. I would take out her daily potassium amount and set it aside. I wouldn't sprinkle it all it at once with her food, but rather a little here, a little there, until I'd given all the amount the vet recommended. Too much in one feeding might be detected.

For babyfood, try all meat babyfood. It's safe for diabetics. Beechnut or Gerbers make all meat chicken, turkey, ham, beef too I think? Beechnut chicken and turkey went down well here.

Good luck.:bighug: I'm glad to hear Riley's eating a bit today. CKD cats can lose weight. Some of the Weruva foods are low calorie so look at the highest calorie flavors if that's what he's willing to eat.
 
Cherie

It is not one size fits all for the phosphorus binder. I've provided you with the info on how much he should get based on his P level and his weight so just taking a scoop out of the jar and giving it to him is not the way I would approach this. And as I stated yesterday, you can't mix it with water or juice and give it to him. It won't help and you are throwing money away. It has to be mixed in with the food he is getting as it binds the P in the food; it doesn't lower his P directly.

I appreciate that you trust my analysis of his labs but you still must work with the vet on the total picture here. For instance, it's my understanding potassium has to be given with food but I don't know that for certain. It's up to you to read the info on Tanya's and ask your vet as to whether you can mix it with water and syringe it and whether you need to do that after he's had something to eat.

And I still think it is possible there is something else going on with Riley that labs alone might not reveal. There are certain patterns to his BG that we've seen before that could "potentially" indicate other health issues. However, that is not a given and so it's important to work with your vet. Riley might benefit from an ultrasound as another diagnostic technique....just as an example.
 
{{{Cherie}}}

I know how distressed you are, and I know you don't trust your vet, but everyone here cares and wants the best for Riley. Please read what they are saying carefully.

It is NOT a good idea to leave out food that has the Potassium in it where your other cats can eat it. Only Riley should be getting it, and in the amounts that were prescribed. Too much potassium can be very serious and a healthy cat getting that supplement can end up very sick. I know you don't want your other cats to be sick, too.

THE most important thing for Riley is to get enough food/calories. That is more important than that what kind of food it is, at this point. Feed him anything he'll eat. Gerbers chicken baby food was a huge favorite with my cats. Please get some of that. It is low phosphorous and low carb, so perfectly safe for Riley.
 
The one thing that Rhiannon and I mentioned that sounds like your vet did not address is the possibility of nausea, which is a very real possibility with CKD. But nausea can be treated, as we mentioned, with cerenia and/or ondansetron. If your vet didn't mention this to you (I know how overwhelming it has been), then I absolutely would call and speak directly to him about it. Both of these meds can be helpful, but they both do need a prescription. If he's nauseated, he won't eat, but if he is nauseated and it's treated, it can help a fair amount.

The Weruva is fine for your other cats as long as (as Tricia mentioned) it does not contain the potassium supplement.
 
Thanks all. I talked with my vet yesterday and she gave me pills for Riley's upset stomach and an appetite stimulant should I need it. She said to syringe the phosphorous binder in baby food and potassium into him asap and is looking around for a $150 vial of urethropetelin, and I'm sure I spelled that wrong. She said he must eat and she doesn't care what it is. He was much better this morning, thank the good Lord and all of your prayers. She said she only had one other cat having so much trouble like this and that her own cat lived five years with CKD.
 
Glad that you got meds for Riley. Erythropoetin or epogen is to stimulate his bone marrow to produce red blood cells. Is that what she is looking for?
 
Cherie, am just now beginning to catch up in LL &L after being out of the loop for a bit. Vert sad that Riley has had some set backs.

Adding to the already multitudes of hugs and healing vines for you and Riley. As Les shared, this is hard. But something we each sign on to for and with our beloveds. I wish I had a magic wand....

Am glad you are talking with your vet who is working with you. as Marje and others have emphasized, there is a lot of collective and good experience and good sense here but we're not vets.

Hugs and hope today will be a feeling better and eating better day ❤️
Sina
 
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