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Lauren M.

Lauren M.

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After 7 months in remission my little Colby is once again a sugar kitty. I have kept him on a strict wet food protein diet and he hadn't shown any symptoms of diabetes--he's been full of energy, eating regularly and everything.

Last month he did vomit twice--once he regurgitated his food that appeared to be digested, then preceded to throw up white frothy foam. He bounced back quickly and was his normal self shortly after. About 2 weeks later it was a hair ball and then maybe a week after he ate my poinsettias and then more vomit. It's been about 4 weeks since that happened and 2 days ago he began vomiting again and hasn't been able to hold down food since, no appetite, and increased thirst. I checked his glucose yesterday, twice and reading #1 was 181 and reading #2 was 150--not concerning numbers. After him not eating for over 12 hours, I decided to take him to ER. Vet ran blood tests and his glucose was 455. They gave him fluids, Pepcid AC, nausea meds and insulin (Lantis) in hopes of getting his BG to drop. He ate some dry food at the vet and vomited 3 hours later at home. He's very low in energy, moving around some but very sleepy.

I'm worried for my boy. It seems there may be some underlying issue that we need to get to the bottom of. The crazy blizzard here on the East is prolonging extensive blood results and I'm afraid to take him back to the vet because of the weather conditions.

My main concern is getting him to eat so he can get some energy back--any tips on this?

Thank you for your support! It means everything to me.

-Lauren
 
Lauren, I am so sorry to hear about what's going on with Colby. I am just learning more about diabetes in cats myself… And I feel pretty unable to give very many recommendations at all

Getting cats to eat is something that I do have quite a bit of experience with, however and like most things ECID.

Something that I advocate for in order to build an appetite in a cat is not keeping food out all of the time to where they can smell it. I have noticed that if all food is taken away for a period of several hours that the smell of food, once reintroduced can be a very good appetite stimulant. Depending on what's going on with the cat this may not work at all… But it's worth a try!

Sprinkling FORTIflora probiotic on top of the food that they already like can often work to increase the appeal of food. Some people disagree with the use of this probiotic because it contains animal digest. I try to not use it very much for that reason but it really does help the kitty want to eat the food, in my experience. I buy my fortiflora on Amazon, but vets sometimes carry it.

Finally - SOME kitties do really well on mirtazapine… Although I have some kitties that I cannot use it with because of how it affects them. Vets often prescribe a 1/4 tablet dose of mirtazipine (every 72 hours). However, I would never start with more than an eighth of a tablet or even smaller if you can make the pieces smaller than 1/8 tablet. This can be an incredibly effective appetite stimulant, in my experience.

I wish you didn't have this winter storm to deal with… That just makes everything harder! There are a lot of online people to help you, so I hope you get the resources and the help that you need. :bighug:
 
Thank you so much for the advice!

I have been leaving his food out in hopes that he will find his appetite again. He hasn't touched it--I will do what you suggest, put it away and reintroduce it later. He is however eating treats and hasn't regurgitated that so that is good. I will have to look into FORTflora--very interesting! Seems like it's worth the try. I am surprised the vet didn't prescribe mirtazapine, sounds like that is def something he needs. I do have his nausea meds and Pepcid AC, have to check his BG next to determine if he needs insulin soon.

I'm sorry you are in this support group--I mean that sympathetically however you can rest assure that there so many great resources in this group that are willing to help! They really helped me through the first time when Colby was first diagnosed.

I hope to report good news soon.

-Lauren
 
Lauren and Colby, we are sorry you are back on the FD forum. Not that we aren't glad to see you....:D It sounds like the stomach upset and vomiting might be causing the higher numbers.

Has your vet talked about syringe feeding? I wouldn't try it unless he thinks it is a good idea.

You might post on Health also to get more eyes, Lauren.
 
You said that Colby ate some poinsettia. Although it is a ways back, I wonder if there may have been some longer-lasting effects from that, since the poinsettia plant is poisonous to kitties. Perhaps it has affected one of his organs??? I don't know if you have a full blood work etc done. Just throwing this out there since your comment caught my eye.

Sending healing vines for Colby and ((HUGS)) for you.
 
Lauren, there is a thread about mirtazipine ( although it is misspelled, they left out the P) in the main health forum. Some kitties get really hyper or kind of wigged out… It's a phenomenon known as serotonin effect. It can be disturbing to watch your kitty.... when the pupils get large or they feel twitchy and hyper… on this medication.

That being said, I tolerate these side effects in one of my kitties that I give the med to about once a week (at an incredibly small dose of 1/16 to 1/8 tab) The effects including increased appetite and serotonin like symptoms usually last for three days. You just have to decide about the effect on your kitty and whether you can tolerate the side effects. Some kitties don't have odd side effects on mirtazipine. When other things fail, I am a big believer in at least trying it.
 
I was just thinking about the pointsetta plant being eaten too since that is poisonous to cats. Maybe he munched on some earlier and you didn't notice from the first vomit?
 
He vomited prior to the poinsettia episode early Dec. I could be wrong but I don't think he ate much of the plant all -- I had it for one day and tossed it as soon as I saw that he had eaten some. It has been over a month without vomiting and now he's in bad shape. Finally got him to eat (very little) today--wet food is not appealing to him so I've given him a bit of dry and he's taken to that, maybe 1/3c since this morning. I checked his BG this morning as directed by the vet which was 12 hours after she gave him .5u and his levels were at 200 so she suggested not to give him a second dose if BG read under 250. He's been sleeping for most of the day--I just hope he gets his energy back soon and crossing my fingers the roads are safe to drive on tomorrow so I can take him back to the vet--clearly something is really wrong.
 
Sending positive energy for Colby. Hopefully he did not eat enough of the poinsettia plant to cause any liver or kidney damage. Keeping him eating is important, no matter what kind of food you have to give. He could also be having a pancreatic attack which will cause nausea and lack of appetite. Fingers crossed that the weather conditions improve and you can get him to a vet. (((HUGSS)))
 
These are some of the things that helped me when Merlin was not eating.

1) Chicken Broth or Beef Broth (no sugar added); could be made from bouillon cubes
2) Tuna or tuna broth/juice
3) Parmesan cheese sprinkled on food
4) Bonita Flakes sprinkled on food (get from Asian Market or possibly some local food stores)
5) Pepcid AC 1/4 tablet - may have to crush and syringe feed; wait 20 minutes and try feeding again
6) Boiled chicken shredded or pureed
7) Baked/broiled/boiled Salmon, White fish, etc.
8) Warm up regular food in microwave
9) Florti-Flora sprinkled on food (get from vet)
10) Plenty of exercise prior to meal time (chasing a string, etc.)
11) Last resort to eat give Medium or the high carb, wet food
 
Thank you everyone for the tips! Colby finally has his appetite back along with full blown diabetes :( We have him back on insulin and have success with remission in the past so I am hopeful for the same outcome this time around.

I appreciate you all so much!

With delight,
Lauren
 
Yay Colby!! :joyful: Eating is ALWAYS good news, and although I know you are sad he's back on insulin... at least you are not brand-new to this... and you know what to do!

Just curious, did you try the mirtazipine, or did he find his appetite on his own?
 
YES, this is a major break through for us. Our dude LOVES to eat so when I couldn't get him to eat a treat I knew something was very wrong.

After 2 days, I was so desperate I started finger feeding him, then bringing him his food (as he had no energy) and then finally his appetite came back on it's own. Hooray!
 
Hi Lauren - as the members of the Prozinc forum know, I am having constant, ongoing problems with my sugar cat not wanting to eat much - he has lots of GI issues though (pancreatitis, IBD) - I am wondering if Colby maybe had a little pancreatitis - it seems like the episodes can come and go quite suddenly and not eating is probably the #1 symptom of pancreatitis.
I have found that the anti-nausea drugs are miracles - I am giving Murphy 4 mg cerenia daily for 5 days, then off a day, then repeat, and also zolfram as needed. For appetite, I got special 1 mg mirtazapine pills from the vet - it's so hard to accurately cut a pill into 1/8, I am very happy to not have to do this - I suspect this may be a reason so many kitties have issues with Mirtazapine (too high a dose because it is too difficult to split the pill accurately) I have found that cyproheptadine (an antihistamine) is a great appetite stimulant as well
the other thing that helps is to put food right by their face when they are sleeping and then gently wake them up. Frequently they will eat before they fully wake up and realize what they are doing
In any case, if the non eating happens again (I sure hope it does not), I would read up on pancreatitis and see if that could be it
 
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Absolutely! I have been writing it down but a spreadsheet is a better idea. Is there a template or does everyone use their own? Question on dose, I am only 1 week back on insulin, Colby's numbers are all over the place--he read 138 just now after nearly 12 hours of his last dose. No insulin is to be given, correct? No even a tiny dose?
 
Thank you for sharing the link! I don't really understand the spreadsheet. Can you share yours with me so I can see an example?
 
I don't have one - my kitty was diabetic over 8 years ago, when we weren't yet using this valuable tool. But, go to Cara and Wynken's post and click on the blue script: Wynken's Spreadsheet.

The amps is the number in the morning, before food or the shot. Pmps is the evening number. U is the number of units given. +1 is a test one hour after the shot; +6 is 6 hours etc.
 
Thank you! That was very helpful.
I am not checking his BG as frequently due to work but today I am monitoring closely as I have the day off. His numbers are all over the place. I have to remember we are only on week 1 and I have to have patience. I am just so confused as to why he is no longer in remission--he has been on a low carb, high protein diet for 7 months and everything was fine until about 10 days ago. This is so frustrating.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...S6daqDBcm5VBqAZ6UtocrOb0Xw/edit#gid=361360320
 
The vomiting may have something to do with his relapse. If he is feeling unwell, that can raise levels.

We can't access your spreadsheet. Go back to the original on your computer and choose "anyone with the link " can view.
 
His numbers look good today. He started out a little high. And then dropped a lot mid cycle. With that big of a drop, he may bounce back up for pmps. I am guessing he is bouncing a little from pre shots to nadir. Hopefully he will settle in. If you get a nadir 50 or under, he gets a dose reduction (assuming you are using a human meter)
 
You are right indeed, he read 227 tonight. I know what hypo numbers look like but when should I skip a shot--the vet told me when BG is 250 or under but that still seems high. Are you saying if any at any point he reads nadir 50 I should reduce his dose? Not sure I am reading that correctly....
 
It turned out to be a nice cycle. He didn't bounce as much as he might have - he is lower at pmps than at amps, which is good. In general, we suggest new diabetics not get a shot if they are under 200, until you have enough data to predict what they might do. Once you have a feel for what dose did what, then you can shoot lower than that. And yes, if the nadir is below 50, then you reduce the dose a little. 50 is the edge of hypo range.

Have you seen the protocol we put together for ProZinc? It's in my signature in blue.

I can see your spreadsheet. If you put it in your signature, it will come up each time you post, updated. Go back to your copy, choose the share button and copy the URL that comes up. Then paste it into your signature.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
It turned out to be a nice cycle. He didn't bounce as much as he might have - he is lower at pmps than at amps, which is good. In general, we suggest new diabetics not get a shot if they are under 200, until you have enough data to predict what they might do. Once you have a feel for what dose did what, then you can shoot lower than that. And yes, if the nadir is below 50, then you reduce the dose a little. 50 is the edge of hypo range.

Have you seen the protocol we put together for ProZinc? It's in my signature in blue.

I can see your spreadsheet. If you put it in your signature, it will come up each time you post, updated. Go back to your copy, choose the share button and copy the URL that comes up. Then paste it into your signature.
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Morning! Quick question for you, it has been 15 hours since Colby's last shot and his numbers were well under 200, (172 to be exact). I fed him his usual can of wet food and went to check him 1.5 hours later and he was at BG 242--is it normal for BG to raise so quickly after low carb/high protein food? Should I give him his shot now?
 
Lauren - I can't really advise you on whether to give a shot now or not… Because that would be up to someone more knowledgeable like Sue.

However, it is normal for the glucose to rise pretty quickly after eating. Look at my boy's spreadsheet and you will see similar rising after meal (and shot!).

I would think that if you did not dose him, he would continue to rise to his "without insulin" level of glucose, whatever that would be.

I'm not sure this is been very helpful, sorry! Just wanted to assure you that a rise in glucose is in fact very normal, even on very low carb, high-protein wet food.
 
Morning! As Cara says, food will raise BG. No matter how much the carbs are, it will always cause a rise in the BG just as it does in humans. I think I'd wait to about 2 hours after food to see what the BG is before considering a shot...since after 2 hours usually it's no longer food influenced.

Will it throw off your shot schedule if you shoot 2 hours late? Will you be able to slide slowly back to the normal times? I ask because if you shoot 2 hours late today, you can't shoot at the normal time tonight. If that's going to cause a problem, I might just skip and get back on track tonight. Also, I'm not sure I would shoot anyway unless you are home to watch him and comfortable steering with food...considering how low he dropped last night!

I have to head out the door to work, but I'll try to pop back in here in about half an hour or 45 min...depending on traffic to see how you're doing. :)
 
I agree with Rachel and Cara. The insulin probably was gone and he started to rise. Food does raise levels also, which can be part of the issue.

i'd go ahead and shoot as long as it doesn't mess up your schedule in 12 hours. Maybe a drop or two less than one unit, if you can't test.

It's good he is responding well to the insulin so early in the restart.
 
Thanks so much for your help! I lowered his dose this morning and will have no problem giving him his shot in 12 hours. Work is walking distance so I will check on him at lunch. He's had a great few days--hopefully this will continue!
 
I'm glad it won't mess up the shot schedule! That's always my fear. Here's hoping the great numbers stick around!
 
Hi friends! It has been almost a full month since Colby has been back on insulin and his numbers are everywhere and still very high. Good news is his symptoms have alleviated especially the water drinking so that makes me feel a little better about things. I'm thinking it's possible that I may need to change his food--for example, I fed him a full can of Fancy Feast Classic Tuna at 4PM with BG at 129 and then come 6PM his glucose raised to 243--am I overreacting or is this normal?

Take a look at his SS and let me know your thoughts! I plan to take him back to the vet soon too. Lastly, what is protocol for an at home glucose curve test? Hoping there is something on the forum for this. The vet recommended I do this at home as cat's levels escalate when they are in the unknown.
 
I think he is doing pretty well, Lauren. There have been some nice later nadirs in the green. I am not sure about today's cycle. Sometimes too much insulin can give you an inverse cycle - from lower to higher to lower. Or it may be his pattern that he goes up before he goes down around+8. A curve will help you get you that info. You feed and shoot as normal. Then get a test every 2-3 hours until pmps. You can give food as you normally do during the day.
 
Thank you for the reassurance! This second time around hasn't been as easy as the first so I need to remind myself that I am doing the best I can. I will do the glucose curve tomorrow.
 
Looking for some guidance. Since colbys relapse in January, he has had 2 different occasions (they have been months apart) where he suddenly has no appetite, hides all day and then vomits continuously and can't even hold down water. Both times I've taken him to the vet they do the same thing--give him fluids, appetite stimulant and nausea meds and it works every time. I'm wondering if this sounds familiar to anyone and if there is some insight you can share. Is this part of the diabetes or is there a deeper issue? Any info would be so helpful!
 
Lauren M. said:
Looking for some guidance. Since colbys relapse in January, he has had 2 different occasions (they have been months apart) where he suddenly has no appetite, hides all day and then vomits continuously and can't even hold down water. Both times I've taken him to the vet they do the same thing--give him fluids, appetite stimulant and nausea meds and it works every time. I'm wondering if this sounds familiar to anyone and if there is some insight you can share. Is this part of the diabetes or is there a deeper issue? Any info would be so helpful!
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This sounds very much like pancreatitis which tends to be fairly common with diabetic kitties. Some kitties can have an acute attack and some can be chronic. The best way to find out for sure if it is a pancreatic issue is to have the specific fPLI test done. The blood draw would be done at your regular vet and then sent to an outside lab that does the testing.

During an active attack of pancreatitis it can be very painful for the kitty. The treatment program for pancreatitis is exactly what your vet was doing with fluids, anti-nausea and appetite stimulants.
 
I agree - totally sounds like pancreatitis
Daily cerenia and prn ondansteron and appy stimulants have really helped Murphy--they should run tests specific for pancreatitis next time and also consider an abdominal ultrasound by a veterinary radiologist or someone certified to read them. With Murphy, after we figured out it was pancreatitis, I also changed his food - I now only feed him food without carrageenan or the gums For additional information (the link Sue provided is terrific) please read about pancreatitis in www.ibdkitties.net
 
They found ketones in his urine. I'm at the ER waiting on a treatment plan. I can't afford this. Feeling very overwhelmed and sad because I mentioned pancreatis to the vet months ago.
 
It's going to cost me 4K for 2 night stay with no guarantees. I just don't think I can continue to give him the level of care he needs nor can I afford it. My heart is really heavy.
 
Oh Lauren, this is such a hard choice. You have given him a good life, filled with love and pets, good food and a warm place to sleep. You get to make the decision for him, and it will be the right one, because you make it out of love. Whatever you decide, you have been his advocate and tried to give him the best possible life. I am so sorry you are going through this.
 
Oh Lauren, I am so sorry to hear this. Have you tried Care Credit?

Sue is right. Whatever decision you make will be the right one. He's had a wonderful life with you. Hugs.
 
Our sweet little Colby took his last breath yesterday. My heart is broken. I'm grateful for that sweet fur baby spending 5+ year of his life with us--he made our hearts full. I know we did everything we could and we couldn't have loved him more. I will miss him every single day.

Thank you for the support throughout this difficult journey, friends. It wasn't an easy one but I am so glad to have found this community of people who genuinely care for their animals. You all have been wonderful. I appreciate you more than you know.
Sending lots of love.
 
Sending big hugs through tears, Lauren. A difficult but loving decision to make. Colby knew he was loved and well cared for. I hope you'll be able to remember the good times, the odd things he did that made him a unique individual and the joy you gave each other.
 
I am so sorry, Lauren My thoughts are with you on this very difficult day, and for the days to come
Sounds like you gave sweet Colby a wonderful filled with loving care. Many hugs :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Sending big hugs through tears, Lauren. A difficult but loving decision to make. Colby knew he was loved and well cared for. I hope you'll be able to remember the good times, the odd things he did that made him a unique individual and the joy you gave each other.
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Thank you for the kind words. How could I forget! He was a special little guy. I have so many photos that I've been looking through--happy tears.
 
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