Baby has diabetes newly diagnosed

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lmummaw

lmummaw

Member Since 2014
My 13 year old cat Baby was just diagnosed with diabetes. This is her story. This kitty was found in a dumpster when she was a baby and I literally took her out of the shelter where I volunteered because I didn't want her euthanized. The manager had come in while I was cleaning the cat building and said we have to make room. I had called her baby at the shelter because she was small and she remained Baby. Her first BG was 573 and a week later it is 568. My vet wants a canned food only diet for her. I noticed she was seemed to have lost a lot of weight suddenly it seemed like. Took her in for a check up and they ran the senior blood panel and there was the diagnosis. In reading more articles I'm understanding more about the role that diet plays. My vet has said he had cats respond with the canned food only diet. Here is my issue, I have more cats than the normal person. One of my other 13 year old cats was diagnosed with the early stages of kidney failure. Yea, when it rains for me it pours. I have free fed dry food always and once in a while treated with canned food. I'm concerned about the other cats having to go without dry food like they normally have had. I have had trouble getting Baby to eat the Purina DM canned food. I got 2 cans of the Hills MD to try that. Any suggestion on how to make her food more appealing? Or other foods with no or low carbs.
 
Welcome to FDMB.

Are you using insulin? If yes, what kind and what dose?

If you are not yet using insulin, you may make a food change safely. If you are already using insulin WAIT until you are home testing before changing the food. Food change may drop the glucose as much as 100 mg/dl and the insulin dose may need adjusting.

The best thing for ALL your cats is canned, low carb food. For the renal cat, it also should be low phosphorus.
Ex Friskies Special Diet canned pates are low carb, moderate protein, and low phosphorus. Better yet, its over the counter.

Cat Info written by Dr Lisa Pierson, explains why.

Make any food changes gradual to avoid GI upset. Swap out 20-25% of the old food with new food each day.
 
I've been reading a lot of the posts from people just posting and there is so much to learn and I thought I knew a lot about cats. By the way my name is Linda and I've never done a forum before so I hope I'm doing ok.

We are not using insulin yet. Vet said if her levels aren't down next week we'll have to do insulin. So I hope I can make a lot more progress by next Friday. \

I have marked so many pages tonight with Diabetes information. I'm trying to stay on the basics till Baby and I learn some more.
 
Hi Linda and welcome. You are doing fine using the forum. :-D

When you check out the food charts, you want to aim for a wet food that is about 8% or under in carbs. For your kidney cat, watch the phosphorous column. (kidney cats here eat wet food too.)

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=115

We have several people here with multiple cats. They feed them in different rooms or they convert everyone to an inexpensive choice like Friskies pate or Friskies Special diet. (which might work for your kidney cat)

And we would urge you to hometest. Tests at the vet are needlessly expensive and less accurate, as the cat is usually very stressed. And stress raises blood glucose levels, sometimes more than 100 points. We test our cats before each test to be sure the dose will be a safe one and midcycle, to see how low the insulin is taking them. Here are some links and info.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

Do lots of reading and ask questions. We'd love to help you help your Baby.
 
Canned cat food will benefit all of your cats. There are several of us on this list that have lots of cats. I have 7. There are also canned foods that will work for your cat with kidney problems. You do not need to feed them prescription foods, many of us feed our cats Friskies or Fancy Feast canned foods. While feeding canned foods is a little more expensive and not as convenient as dry food, in the long run it is a better choice. It is healthier than dry and reduces the risks of any of your other cats from developing FD.
 
Welcome to FDMB !

Home testing while you are changing to an all-wet food diet will help you see how Baby's BG numbers drop without insulin. You might be surprised. :smile:

Here is the link to setting up a spreadsheet we use here to keep track of our sugar-cats' tests/shots/food/etc. Once you put Baby's in you signature, we can all see it and help you when it come to questions you may have.

Even though you are not using insulin yet, it would be a good idea to use it for Baby's test results while home-testing during the food change. Just indicate in the comments column that you are not using insulin yet.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

If you need help setting it up, just ask. We are here to help you.

Supplies for home testing....Getting started shopping list (Borrowed from another member's post) :smile:
1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro.
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
 
Hi bean Linda and sugarprincess Baby and welcome to the message board.

Sounds to me like you are learning a lot already.

This is a good reference, from a vet journal back in May 2010, AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats. It has some of the more up to date information on treating diabetes.

Hope your vet starts you on either Lantus, levimir or prozinc, those being the better insulins for cats.

OOPS! forgot to put in the link! :oops:
 
Thanks everybody for all the replies. I definitely want to do home testing because it will save money although my vet gives me a multicat discount and knows that I have done a lot of rescue work. My vet has another vet in the practice who is younger(and eventually buying the practice out which bums me out) and likes to lecture a lot about basic things that I already knew. He also wanted to change things up for my one cat who has a small bladder and he ended up getting blocked because he told me to stop doing what had worked for years. So I told my original vet and office staff that I don't want the new vet for my cats. Giving the shots will not be a problem, I have been giving vaccines for over 10 years. I guess the vet wanted to see if I could get her blood glucose lower with just food. I have only left a little dry food out for the one cat who won't eat and I think I'm going to keep picking it up when I'm not in my bedroom area where the one group is.

The ear testing will probably be the worst. Their ears seem so fragile but I guess unless you have somebody to help and know how to draw blood from a vein it's not optional. I have done ear tipping for feral cats which freaked me out the first time I saw it done, but I believe very strongly in TNR.

I guess as I go along I will find out how many times she needs to be tested. A friend of mine had an overweight diabetic cat and she just used the urine test strips and didn't have to give insulin daily.

I will check out the links. I have been reading a crf site recommended by a friend. I'm processing a lot, but think I'm getting the basics for right now.
 
Another thing about Baby is she lost 3 pounds over the last year or two so I'm trying to get her weight back up slowly.

Linda
 
I'm trying to publish Baby's SS and I created it, wrote the dates and her BG's readings and saved it. I tried opening the document in a new tab and it won't open. I have windows 8 so I don't know if that's an issue or if because I have been up all night reading and researching and am too tired to figure it out. :?:
 
If you used our Google doc, you can go back to Google docs and it should be in your list of documents. Open it and put it in your Favorites. Be sure it is marked as "share to anyone with the link" on the top right hand side under Share.

Then go to the left hand top and choose File. Then Publish to the Web and Start Publishing. That will bring up a new url. Copy and paste that url into your signature on this forum. That will bring your ss up, each time you post, updated.
 
The ear testing will probably be the worst. Their ears seem so fragile but I guess unless you have somebody to help and know how to draw blood from a vein it's not optional. I have done ear tipping for feral cats which freaked me out the first time I saw it done, but I believe very strongly in TNR.
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If you've done ear tipping, you know that there are not a lot of nerve endings in the ear. That is one reason we use the ear for testing. It's also much easier for people to see that marginal vein running along the edge of the ear than to find the vein in a leg. It's less painful and easier to ear test than to stick the leg vein every time.

Another thing about Baby is she lost 3 pounds over the last year or two so I'm trying to get her weight back up slowly.
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Where would you say Baby falls on this Body Condition Score chart? She may not need to regain all of the 3 pounds she lost in the last year. Obesity in cats is a major factor in insulin resistance, so you want to keep her slimmed down, but not too thin. It's a balancing act.
 
OK! You fixed the SS link in your signature and we can view your SS now. Thanks for doing that.

Those are pretty high numbers. I think it's time for some insulin.
 
I think I finally got the link for the spreadsheet!! The vet wanted me to make sure she eats only wet food, didn't listen completely last week hadn't seen this forum yet. We go back Friday for a retest. Only wet food so far so hoping it goes down. nailbite_smile
 
lmummaw said:
Another new member here reading this and have a question now. Should I try and get the meter and test trips etc and do a test before I take Baby for her blood test on Friday the 7th. I see members saying the reading could be off by a 100 or more by taking her to the vet. She was over 500 the[ last 2 times but we are not using insulin yet. I have taken dry food away as my vet advised.
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You asked this question in someone else's post but I'll answer you here to make sure you see it.

Vet stress can raise the BG levels 100-180 points mg/dL. High carb food can keep the BG levels elevated and switching to a low carb food like you have done can often lead to a significant drop of 100 points mg/dL in a week or so.

Learning to home test can take some time to become proficient, for your cat Baby to become used to a new routine, and for the ears to "learn to bleed" (form new blood vessels). It's a good idea to get Baby used to having her ears touched and warmed, to get her used to something poking her ear, to get you used to using the meter and all the supplies.

So yes, I do think it's a good idea for you to get the testing supplies and start some of the steps in the home testing process. We suggest 3 tries and then stop if no blood. Always give a low carb treat like some of the freeze dried pure protein ones or some plain cooked chicken. That way, Baby will come to associate test time with getting treats.
 
Another thing about Baby is she lost 3 pounds over the last year or two so I'm trying to get her weight back up slowly.
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Where would you say Baby falls on this Body Condition Score chart? She may not need to regain all of the 3 pounds she lost in the last year. Obesity in cats is a major factor in insulin resistance, so you want to keep her slimmed down, but not too thin. It's a balancing act.[/quote]

Baby is probably a 2 on that chart. I can feel her spine and she has visibly lost weight. She was never on the heavy side.
 
I read somewhere about DM cats and their breathing. I don't remember where it was, but I've noticed she is breathing faster than my other cats. And it seems shallow.
 
A 2 body condition score! That definitely sounds too skinny.

Here are a few ideas from a quick brainstorming session to help your Baby gain back some weight.

1. Some of the kitten canned foods have more calories in them. How about Authority Chicken & Liver Kitten (6% carb), EVO Turkey/Chicken Cat/Kitten (3% carbs), Fancy Feast Tender Turkey Feast ( 4% carbs), or Fancy Feast Tender Ocean Whitefish Feast (5 %carbs), Pro Plan Kitten Chicken & Liver (2% carbs). These are just a few choices of the available kitten foods that are also low carb.

2. Or, you could add some pure protein, like some plain cooked chicken to her diet. Up to 20% of the food you feed could be this plain chicken. The extra protein would help her to gain weight.

3. She needs some insulin to help her gain weight too. Since she can't process her food properly, she'll continue to lose weight until you get the insulin dose balanced.

4. Until cats are more regulated with their diabetes, you may need to feed up to 50% more calories to your kitty Baby. Feeding several small meals over the course of the day, would hopefully keep her interested in eating and will stress the pancreas less if there is less food to process all at one time.

Can't help you with the breathing thing. No idea.
 
Rapid breathing can be the body's attempt to cope with acidosis, get to a vet asap.

From Wikipedia:
Those in metabolic acidosis may exhibit deep, rapid breathing called Kussmaul respirations which is classically associated with diabetic ketoacidosis. Rapid deep breaths increase the amount of carbon dioxide exhaled, thus lowering the serum carbon dioxide levels, resulting in some degree of compensation.
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I have been feeding her about every 6 hours. I think I'm going to feed her again, she was fed around 1:30 pm but she is searching for food. I'm trying to keep a really close eye on her. The amount of water she is drinking is less than what it was. I'm going to have to print out that list of canned foods. I won't be able to get to the one store for the kitten food or others brand until it's safe to drive. I have plenty of Friskies as 2 stores have had really good sales the past few weeks. Maybe I might be able to get a friend with all wheel drive to go for me. My car is crappy in the snow. We're supposed to get hit with snow again. My front wheel drive car has been sitting because it's manual transmission and I had a back surgery one year and a knee replacement the next year. I guess my cats and I are all falling apart at the same time. My crf kitty had radiocat treatment for her thyroid 2 years ago.

Baby's breathing has slowed down and she seems more relaxed. I did find the link on here that I saw that mentioned breathing. It said that the diabetes makes the lungs work harder. Will continue to keep an eye on her.
 
I have been feeding Baby Friskies canned food and it seems every 5 hours is when she seems to be asking for it. When I have been feeding the canned because of the other cats with her, there is usually some left. She will graze in the middle of the 5 hours. She seems more relaxed overnight with the every 5 hours. I'm not, I had 2 hours sleep last night but trying to get her stable till her next vet appointment. I'm going to go to Walmart tomorrow to get the Relion and all the other stuff I need. I think I have small insulin syringes somewhere. Somebody gave me some a few years ago, just need to find them if I didn't give them away,

Where do I get the Freeze dried snacks I see everybody mentioning?
 
Where do I get the Freeze dried snacks I see everybody mentioning?
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I bought my freeze dried chicken snacks/treats at a local mom and pop pet store, The Natural Dog. I've also bought them at Petsmart or Petco, online at Chewy.com when the Halo Liv-a-littles are on sale or other on-line retailers when they have a sale.

Look in the dog treat aisle at a pet superstore like Petco or Petsmart, for larger sized bags of the treats such as the Pure Bites. It's more cost effective. You can easily break up those large dog sized chunks into tinier kitty sized pieces.

Here is a list of low carb treat ideas.List of Low carb healthy treats There are new treats that have come out since this list was developed. Basically, look for anything that is pure protein.

I think I have small insulin syringes somewhere. Somebody gave me some a few years ago, just need to find them if I didn't give them away,
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You want to have insulin syringes that are 3/10 cc, with 1/2 unit markings on the barrel, 29-31 gauge, short or long needle is a personal preference. These are made for human children and are the best available to measure the tiny doses our small kitties need.
 
I didn't find the syringes so I guess I'm buying them. I'm going to make a list of things I need at the store. The neighbor plowed my driveway so I can get out tomorrow. Apparently we have more snow coming Wednesday so I have to get out tomorrow.

Baby seems to be very comfortable with eating just wet food. She's been chilling most of the time. I want to get a reading or two before we go to the vet on Friday.
 
Wrote a list up for supplies so I don't forget something. I'm sure I would forget something if I don't make a list. Have to go shovel walk, clean the car and get on the road. I want to try and do a couple of tests before we go to the vet. Baby seems more comfortable and relaxed on the canned food diet. My Billy who has issues and would never eat canned food is actually eating a little bit of it once in a while. Probably good for him.

I know one thing I wish the weather would calm down. A friend and I were talking about it and this winter for the northeast is as we decided "a real winter". I guess we got spoiled with the milder winters. I know kids are probably enjoying it if they can shut off the games and computers and play like we did years ago. :smile:
 
I got my supplies yesterday before the ice storm we had. I haven't gotten a blood sample yet, it was a crazy day. But Baby is looking much better, her breathing is slower and she seems calmer.

I got the Relion meter and the lancets, the strips, and test strips, etc. The clerk that helped me said it would depend on which insulin she is prescribed as to what syringes she would need. They had a long line and the syringes had to be gotten at the counter so I didn't bother getting them. I got the ketone strips and the clerk seemed to think I wouldn't need them, but the way Baby stands in the litterbox I am sure I can catch it while she is peeing.

I think we are on the right path and thank you all for all the advice!!!
 
lmummaw said:
I got my supplies yesterday before the ice storm we had. I haven't gotten a blood sample yet, it was a crazy day. But Baby is looking much better, her breathing is slower and she seems calmer.
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That is great to hear! It's part of what we call the WCR (Whole Cat Report). Try to get a couple of tests in over the next day or so so we can see if the numbers have dropped further since last week.

lmummaw said:
The clerk that helped me said it would depend on which insulin she is prescribed as to what syringes she would need. They had a long line and the syringes had to be gotten at the counter so I didn't bother getting them. I got the ketone strips and the clerk seemed to think I wouldn't need them, but the way Baby stands in the litterbox I am sure I can catch it while she is peeing.
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Yep, the clerk was correct. You will either need u40 (sometimes used with ProZinc) or u100 (Lantus/Levemir) syringes depending on the insulin prescribed, however, you can actually use the u100 syringes with u40 insulin as there is a conversion chart to help.

Here are some urine catching tips that might help. :-D
 
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