At what point do I suspect cat has too much insulin? AMPS 400

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Suzanne & Cobb said:
It's hard to answer that question with an absolute. I'll be honest that it was a discussion my husband and I had several times. Cobb is a high dose cat. We got to 31 units twice a day before we switched insulins and really saw progress. If we had known the expense and frustration, I think my husband would have been more vocal about letting Cobb go, but Cobb was my cat so my husband has already said I have to make that decision.

We discussed letting Cobb go when he was first diagnosed because we were uncertain of his future quality of life. We agreed to give it 6 months. Cobb was not doing well at the end of 6 months. DH and I talked, I researched and found FDMB and told him I wanted to give Cobb a little more time. I learned a ton...ie. Cobb was still on "diabetic" dry food. We took him off that and his numbers fell from the 500s into the 300s. That's when we decided these ladies really knew what they were talking about.

If I thought Cobb's quality of life had no chance of improving or that he was in untreatable pain, it would have been no question. My DH did a lot of research and found some cats go into remission. That gave us the hope we needed to jump in with treatment. And from my time here, we celebrate a cat going OTJ a few times a month. Will Fay? I don't know. But I'd guess others whose cats were on insulin for a prolonged period of time felt they never would either.

Unless you run every test when you get that FD diagnosis, which for most would be a waste of money, you can't make that kind of decision because you aren't working with all the information. You have to decide...can I treat the disease I know he has. For us, initially, the answer was "we'll try." And we were given enough hope along the way to continue trying. I would have never guessed Cobb would require so much insulin. But our work has paid off and I feel comfortable with what we've done. We did draw the line at testing for acromegaly. I felt like, if he had it and if I knew, I would pursue every option to treat it or feel guilty. We weren't in a position to treat it, so I felt better off not knowing.

That's just our experience. Everyone has their own!

~Suzanne
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I hear you. I feel pretty clear that I can't put any more money towards serious diagnostics. It just isn't worth it...to me. I would never judge anyone here for doing all the workups they wanted. But I think to myself: will the tests change what I'm doing now? How far would I take it? Well, I wouldn't. I'm OK to manage the insulin and diet and work towards testing more often. Other conditions or challenges? Well, if I have to let Fay go, maybe that just means it was her time and some room is made for another rescue to be spared. Who knows.
 
Alex --

FWIW, I've been handling Gabby's FD for 5+ years solo. For me, one of the big advantages of getting a handle on how anyone's cat is responding to insulin is that it allows you to have s general idea of how your cat's cycles run. Gabby, for example, has an early nadir.

In a previous job, I had more flexibility with my schedule. Currently, I'm in a new job. If I need to schedule a meeting after hours, I can run home, test, feed, and shoot and go back to the office. Everyone knows that my schedule works around Gabby. I'm lucky that i have a very supportive work environment.

To answer your earlier question, if you look at Gabby's SSs over the course of her diabetes, she started out being the Queen of the Dive. It's why I get early tests. With a good deal of persistence and using a strategy to manage her numbers, her curve has flattened out considerably.
 
I would do it all again in a heartbeat. I've had cats since I was in 8th grade, and i adore them. But there was something very extraordinary about punkin - hahahaha we always joked he was psychic because he was all about eye contact. Here's one of my favorite videos of Punkin complaining cuz he wasn't being fed on time. We held out until it was obvious he'd have died within a day or so. After lots of other health issues, he finally had a fluid build-up in his abdomen that came on suddenly and squished his lungs to slivers. Not everyone needs to do everything we did, but i do think FD is a treatable disease and learning about it will hopefully help you get to the point where it doesn't seem so burdensome and overwhelming. It doesn't need to be.

And yes, I was literally pulling punkin out from under the furniture by his little arms, hoping i didn't dislocate anything, then wrapping him tightly in a beach towel so he was immobilized while i fiddled around with his ear til i could get the hang of poking down. :confused: i was convinced i had to do it to keep him alive, so i learned and i did what needed to be done.
 
There is not a thing I would do differently either. Skooter has been my companion for about 14 years, and while this disease has brought some challenges, I would not do a single thing differently. I think once you start finding a dose that starts showing improvement in her numbers, you will feel better. I remember the first time that Skooter hit the 200s, I did a happy dance all around my house, called my sister and my mom lolol....I was afraid of green numbers (double digits) and now I am addicted to them.

The beginning is very tough and that is when I questioned the most. It is difficult because you are learning a lot of stuff, it is overwhelming, the initial cost is a bit intimidating, and it can be very frustrating trying to get a cat regulated into normal numbers. Now that Skooter is pretty much regulated (though I still have hope he will come off insulin), it is just part of everyday life for us. I have very understanding family and friends and whenever we can, we plan things at least around his shot time. If I need to leave a little higher carb food in the feeder because I might be home late, so be it.

I started out with one feeder for the day time and eventually got a second one for night time (this way he was getting consistently fed at the same time each cycle). I found that Skooter's preshot numbers came down quite nicely when I started giving him a small snack at +5, which is around 330 am/pm. I did get up at 330 am for a few days to give it to him, and then decided to invest in the second feeder. Best $60 I think I have spent and I believe I have the same one that Julie had.

I hope you are able to stick it out and give Fay some time to show you that she can get her numbers in a better range.....there is tons of support here for you!

Anyway, I love how detailed your notes are, to include the time.
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My self dx'd OCD was for once a good thing :)

Do you still think there is hope for regulation with her numbers being so high? I hope so :)
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Of course there is....like Julie said, ECID so can I give you a time table of when it will happen? No. But I do think if you are able to give it some time and get the tests in when you can, etc there is a great chance of getting her regulated. Also, there are ways to save money....buying insulin from Canada, getting test strips from American Diabetes Wholesale.....
 
So today, for example. She reached the 200s today around nadir but is back up to 400s tonight. I know we need more data, but which is a more likely scenario: 1) cat still needs more insulin or 2) getting fed only twice a day is causing her numbers to jump back higher later? I'm sure she needs more insulin, but if it's preferable to give the cat smaller, more frequent meals, I may look into that sooner rather than later.
 
I thinkmost people feed at leaSt 4 times per day. Spreading out the food helps even out blood sugar. In some cats feEdina I hate auto correct ju s t saying....feeding after nadir can drive up the bgs for the next preshot. Some cats graze nicely throughout the cycle. Some need most of their food in the first few hours of each cycle.

In your case, I'd keep it simple and feed her at preshot and something like +3 or +4. That's where the feeder will help.

We look at nadirs for 2-3 days. One cycle doesn't tell much about a dose unless the cat goes under 50.
 
Hi Alex

I haven't had a chance to welcome you and Fay yet and you are probably in bed but perhaps you'll see this tomorrow. Julie and I had a chance to talk about Fay's dose; I'm glad you've held it so far and did an awesome job getting tests today.

We've had other members with very demanding jobs do this solo. One who comes to mind right off the bat is Dyana. JD was diabetic for nine years and just recently passed away at 20 years old. Dyana has a very demanding job but she managed to handle JD's diabetes by herself and JD was a very, very bouncy kitty. JD was never really regulated but he was a happy, healthy kitty.

I always admire those who do this alone. There is a steep learning curve and it is stressful at the beginning but you will develop a routine and it will become second nature. We all just learn to incorporate it into our lives.

We've been at this four years; part of the time my husband is here to help and part of the time he is gone (he's an airline pilot) so I know what it's like to do it with someone and alone. We've been at it four years and are past the point where Gracie will go into remission but she is young so we will be doing this for a long time. It doesn't bother us just because we know we have her with us and she is happy and healthy.

We can look at hundreds of SSs and some stand out to us that a cat will go into remission quickly; some it's not so clear and then....boom....down the dosing scale they go and into remission. We just never know until it happens.

Take time to care for yourself and remember that Fay is not just her numbers.....she's the same sweet kitty you've always loved. :cat::cat::bighug:
 
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