At my wits' end!

[Squalliesmom]

Hi all . I am absolutely at my wits' end with Squallie's BG. I cannot get a handle on it, no matter what I try! He's back up in some very high numbers; if I give him 1 unit it doesn't seem to bring his BG down much, if I give just a tiny bit over 1 unit he will be lower at PMPS but high again the next AMPS. This has been going on for a while now and I am very frustrated. I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I feel like I'm not being a very good cat Mom right now.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

First, you are a very good cat Mom! Lucy, so sorry that you are having this frustration with Squallie. The 1.25 dose took him too low but the >1 u doesn't seem to be enough. Maybe in the middle somewhere?

 

[Sharon14]

Hi Lucy, Bobbie is right, you are NOT a bad cat mom!!! In fact you are an excellent one! I certainly can't offer dosing advice, but have you considered an insulin change? Maybe a different one would last a bit longer?

 

[Squalliesmom]

First, you are a very good cat Mom! Lucy, so sorry that you are having this frustration with Squallie. The 1.25 dose took him too low but the >1 u doesn't seem to be enough. Maybe in the middle somewhere?

I've tried, Bobbie, and it just seems to be either feast or famine. I just can't seem to find the right dose! On the 2nd, when I last gave him 1.25 U, it took him down to 43! A "fat" 1 U causes him to have a lower PMPS which, in and of itself, is a good thing, but then to keep him safe I have to give a "skinny" 1 U which means he's back up in the high numbers in the AM! I just don't know what to do.

Hi Lucy, Bobbie is right, you are NOT a bad cat mom!!! In fact you are an excellent one! I certainly can't offer dosing advice, but have you considered an insulin change? Maybe a different one would last a bit longer?

Yes Sharon, I have, I even talked to my vet about it yesterday. He's okay with the change to Lantus but won't do it unless I bring Squallie in for a curve, which I think is ridiculous, I can do a curve perfectly well at home without spending all that money. At this point I would have to delay it by a month or more because one of my civvies got a very bad cut on his leg and it's costing me a small fortune to keep having him bandaged every few days. He was also found to have a heart murmur and now needs to have an ultrasound asap as he's got a greater than normal chance of having HCM. I can't afford to have the vet keep Squallie overnight and run a curve while all the rest is happening with my civvie.

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

Lucy, you KNOW you are a great Mom. Your struggles with Vetsulin show that. I wonder about a technique that ProZinc users try sometimes. Not the same insulin but very similar and since he has 6+ nadirs, not early ones, it may get be worth a try. We shoot on an 11/13 schedule when the amps is consistently higher than the pmps. Now Squallie is not consistent, but fairly often his amps has been in the Reds and pinks and his pmps in the yellows. So you'd shoot an hour early in the am and a hour later in the pm. It may not work; it might give you more even preshots while not lowering them overall, but it might be worth a try. If you do, plan to monitor.

Getting Lantus would be great but I understand your hesitation with the insistence on a vet curve, which we all know would not be as accurate as your home curve. No chance to start new with a Lantus vet who understands the value of home testing?

 

[Squalliesmom]

Lucy, you KNOW you are a great Mom. Your struggles with Vetsulin show that. I wonder about a technique that ProZinc users try sometimes. Not the same insulin but very similar and since he has 6+ nadirs, not early ones, it may get be worth a try. We shoot on an 11/13 schedule when the amps is consistently higher than the pmps. Now Squallie is not consistent, but fairly often his amps has been in the Reds and pinks and his pmps in the yellows. So you'd shoot an hour early in the am and a hour later in the pm. It may not work; it might give you more even preshots while not lowering them overall, but it might be worth a try. If you do, plan to monitor.

Getting Lantus would be great but I understand your hesitation with the insistence on a vet curve, which we all know would not be as accurate as your home curve. No chance to start new with a Lantus vet who understands the value of home testing?

Hi Sue. Thank you for the information on the 11/13 method! I may well give it a try!

The vet is very supportive of home testing, I don't understand his insistence for doing a curve at the office.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

Is the vet who wants to do the curve the owner of the practice? If Not talk to the owner of the practice.
I only had Gray Ghost's inertial curve done at the vet because I had to go out of town for trip for work.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Lucy, I think Sue's idea is a good one. It's worth a try. Then if you still have the extremes and want to change insulin, I would call the vet and tell them that you will do the curve and if he won't go along with that, you will find another vet.

 

[Squalliesmom]

Is the vet who wants to do the curve the owner of the practice? If Not talk to the owner of the practice.
I only had Gray Ghost's inertial curve done at the vet because I had to go out of town for trip for work.

Yes, he owns the practice. He's new in the area -new practice- and I think he wants to make sure he gets off to a good start but to me it's unnecessarily hands-on. All Squallie's curves have been done at home, I don't know why he wants me to bring him in for this one.

 

[Squalliesmom]

Lucy, I think Sue's idea is a good one. It's worth a try. Then if you still have the extremes and want to change insulin, I would call the vet and tell them that you will do the curve and if he won't go along with that, you will find another vet.

I'd hate to have to find another vet, he IS my new vet, lol. I'm hoping if we sit down and discuss it that I can get him to agree to let me do the curve at home.

I love Bubba's trendy new eye-wear! He looks very dashing!

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

I'd hate to have to find another vet, he IS my new vet, lol. I'm hoping if we sit down and discuss it that I can get him to agree to let me do the curve at home.

I love Bubba's trendy new eye-wear! He looks very dashing!

I think discussion is in order. He has seen your SS, right? It would be different if he would RX another insulin unless he were to "run test" ( which isn't necessary ) or to perform something that you are not capable of doing but that is clearly not the case with a curve. Doesn't he know with you clowder of kitties that he will surly make $$ on you. He doesn't want to lose you from his practice unless he is stupid.

 

[Squalliesmom]

I think discussion is in order. He has seen your SS, right? It would be different if he would RX another insulin unless he were to "run test" ( which isn't necessary ) or to perform something that you are not capable of doing but that is clearly not the case with a curve. Doesn't he know with you clowder of kitties that he will surly make $$ on you. He doesn't want to lose you from his practice unless he is stupid.

Agreed!

 

[Sushi The Cat]

I am not even going to read anything else after the first post!!!

YOU ARE THE BEST CAT MUM IN THE WORLD!!! (there are more...but I wanted to make my point...)
YOU ARE ALSO THE BEST AUNTIE OF SUGAR KITTIES IN THE FDMB!! (again...there are others...but we are focusing on you now)




Now I am going to read the rest of the thread...

 

[Sushi The Cat]

Ok...I can't help with anything else but support... I agree with Bobbie!


You are strong and awesome, Lucy!!

Love you!!!

Sara

 

[Critter Mom]

Hi Lucy,

First up, here are some .

Next, can you post up some details of Squallie's feeding schedule, please (times in "AMPS/PMPS, +1, +2 ... " notation, approx size of meals, and carb % would be great).


Mogs
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[Squalliesmom]

I am not even going to read anything else after the first post!!!

YOU ARE THE BEST CAT MUM IN THE WORLD!!! (there are more...but I wanted to make my point...)
YOU ARE ALSO THE BEST AUNTIE OF SUGAR KITTIES IN THE FDMB!! (again...there are others...but we are focusing on you now)




Now I am going to read the rest of the thread...

Ok...I can't help with anything else but support... I agree with Bobbie!


You are strong and awesome, Lucy!!

Love you!!!

Sara

Thank you dear Sara, love you too!

 

[Critter Mom]

Aw, c'mon Lucy! What about the rest of us???

 

[Squalliesmom]

Hi Mogs. Thanks for the hugs. Squallie eats 1/2 can (2.75 oz) of 9 Lives chicken pate-4% carbs-about 1/2 hr before his shots both AM and PM. During the day he gets lunch usually at +6 hrs but it may be an hour earlier or later if I have to be away from home at lunchtime. If all the kitties are very energetic near bedtime they will occasionally get a midnight snack of 1/4 can each, but that doesn't happen every night.

Squallie also gets treats, dehydrated chicken except at test time when he gets Orijen Original treats. The Orijen treats are a fairly new addition, I'm starting to wonder if they are not as low carb as I've been led to believe.

QUOTE="Critter Mom, post: 1576408, member: 10789"]Aw, c'mon Lucy! What about the rest of us??? [/QUOTE]

Awww, Mogs, you already know I love you!!! You were one of the first people who reached out to me, and babysat me through my first crisis - and you know they say you never forget your first, lol!

 

[Critter Mom]

... and you know they say you never forget your first ...

Lucy! I didn't know you cared!!!

(Laughed so hard at this I nearly choked ... )
.

 

[Critter Mom]

PS...

Love you back!

.

 

[Squalliesmom]

Lucy! I didn't know you cared!!!

(Laughed so hard at this I nearly choked ... )
.

Glad I could give you a laugh!

 

[Critter Mom]

Glad I could give you a laugh!

Making someone with PTSD belly laugh is no small achievement.

.

 

[Squalliesmom]

All the better, then!

 

[Mogmom and Goofus]

Lucy, you're definitely NOT a bad kitty mom, quite the contrary! The FD roller coaster gets the best of all of us sometimes. Hugs.

 

[Olive & Paula]

Lucy, glad you like your new vet. I'm not saying curves in office are the best. Smokey has never had one by a vet except when diagnosed. Mine here never even mentioned one to me. Good or bad I don't know.

I just want to offer another perspective. It could be your vet wants one if you change to a new insulin just so they can make sure how Squallie reacts to it. I'm sure they know you are very capable of switching safely. I think they just want to monitor the switch for their own assurance.

 

[Merlin]

Oh my...so much love here. Anyway, I totally agree with Sue on trying the 11/13 schedule. Not sure what time you shoot now but I would definitely try the 11/13 schedule. I looked at just the last 30 days and 91% of the time, you are higher in the AM. So as Sue mentioned, I would either go one hour early in the AM or go one hour later at night. You can also try 11.5/12.5 and adjust only 30 minutes. Either way, you can try either schedule and adjust.

Merlin sometimes did better on a 11.5/12.5 schedule or 11/13 or 11.75/12.75 schedule or even a 12/12 schedule. Just had to catch the trends and then adjust.

One thing that I would do is somewhere on your SS, I would indicate what schedule you are trying and that way, you will know what is working good at the time. It is all about the data collecting. You can color a whole row and indicate the time or just write it in the comment section. At first, I colored a row but after awhile, I was changing all the time so I ended up just writing it on the comment section. You can see what I did on Merlin's SS.

 

[Squalliesmom]

Thank you all for the help and encouragement, I definitely need it. I figured I would try the 11/13 schedule tonight since Squallie was low again at PMPS. I waited an hour before I fed everybody, and now he is refusing to eat. I've never known him to be this resistant to eating, I don't know what's going on. I am very worried about him now, and I don't know whether or not to give him insulin. He ate maybe 1/4 of his dinner. If he gets no insulin he will be extremely high in the morning.

 

[Critter Mom]

Try warming it a little, Lucy. If you've got any freeze-dried treats try crumbling some of them on top of Squallie's grub. Or try doing the same with some grated parmesan if you have any of that.


Mogs
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[Squalliesmom]

I tried the freeze dried chicken, it got him to eat a couple of mouthfuls (I had already warmed it). I finally resorted to putting a little YAZC on top of it, he ate maybe a tablespoon of that with a little bit of the canned food clinging to it (I don't like giving him much of the YAZC, regardless of what they say it raises his BG).

 

[Merlin]

I know with Vetsulin, it is important for Squallie to eat and wait about 20 minutes before giving the shot by I am not sure how much he needs to eat prior to the shot. With Prozinc, if I can get Merlin to eat a couple of teaspoons or a tablespoon, then I go ahead and shoot. But with Vetsulin, I am not sure how much they need to eat but if it is the same as Prozinc, then a tablespoon is enough to shoot.

Persuading your cat to eat (tips from Tanya's Site - 'sleepy eating' is a good one)

Suggestions on How to Stimulate Kitty's Appetite (from FDMB's Feline Health FAQs)

Below are some things that has helped me in the past with Merlin.

How to get Kitty to Eat

1) Chicken Broth or Beef Broth (no sugar added); could be made from bouillon cubes
2) Tuna or tuna broth/juice
3) Parmesan cheese sprinkled on food
4) Bonita Flakes sprinkled on food (get from Asian Market or possibly some local food stores)
5) Pepcid AC 1/4 tablet - may have to crush and syringe feed; wait 20 minutes and try feeding again
6) Boiled chicken shredded or pureed
7) Baked/broiled/boiled Salmon, White fish, etc.
8) Warm up regular food in microwave
9) Florti-Flora sprinkled on food (get from vet)
10) Plenty of exercise prior to meal time (chasing a string, etc.)
11) Last resort to eat give Medium or the high carb, wet food

 

[Squalliesmom]

I'm sitting her looking at my diabetic old boy who won't eat, isn't interested in his dinner at all and who has now stopped purring; my little boy Bengal with a huge bandage in his leg (he can't even sit with his foot flat on the floor under him) and an infection we haven't been able to get under control; my other baby Bengal with IBD, and my fluffy Maine Coon who is losing weight for reasons unknown; and I just want to cry. I feel like I should give my babies to someone else who can maybe do better for them. I just feel like I'm failing them terribly, and I'm so worried about all of them at this point.

 

[Squalliesmom]

I know with Vetsulin, it is important for Squallie to eat and wait about 20 minutes before giving the shot by I am not sure how much he needs to eat prior to the shot. With Prozinc, if I can get Merlin to eat a couple of teaspoons or a tablespoon, then I go ahead and shoot. But with Vetsulin, I am not sure how much they need to eat but if it is the same as Prozinc, then a tablespoon is enough to shoot.

Persuading your cat to eat (tips from Tanya's Site - 'sleepy eating' is a good one)

Suggestions on How to Stimulate Kitty's Appetite (from FDMB's Feline Health FAQs)

Below are some things that has helped me in the past with Merlin.

How to get Kitty to Eat

1) Chicken Broth or Beef Broth (no sugar added); could be made from bouillon cubes
2) Tuna or tuna broth/juice
3) Parmesan cheese sprinkled on food
4) Bonita Flakes sprinkled on food (get from Asian Market or possibly some local food stores)
5) Pepcid AC 1/4 tablet - may have to crush and syringe feed; wait 20 minutes and try feeding again
6) Boiled chicken shredded or pureed
7) Baked/broiled/boiled Salmon, White fish, etc.
8) Warm up regular food in microwave
9) Florti-Flora sprinkled on food (get from vet)
10) Plenty of exercise prior to meal time (chasing a string, etc.)
11) Last resort to eat give Medium or the high carb, wet food

Thank you, Merlin. He is sleeping right now, so in a bit I'm going to try the "sleepy eating."

 

[Sharon14]

Hang in there Lucy

 

[Squalliesmom]

Hang in there Lucy

Thanks, Sharon.

 

[Squalliesmom]

Well, now my civvie Candy has injured her right eye *sigh*. Been down this road once before with another civvie, fortunately I still had his cone so I immediately stuck it on her to prevent her from rubbing it. Poor baby hates it, and now she's exhausted from trying to get it off. Guess I'm going back to the vet in the morning. I think I'll just hand him my bank card and say, "You keep it, you're getting more out of it than I am, anyway!" Guess this is what I get for complaining.

 

[Sue484]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but do you think that the 11/13 schedule is suitable for Romulus as his AMPS is consistently higher than PMPS? How would I show this on the spreadsheet if I do do it!

 

[Squalliesmom]

I'm just winging it here, indicating on my SS the times insulin is given. I'm not going to get too stressed out about it until I see whether or not it will help!

 

[Sharon14]

Hi Lucy. When it rains, it pours doesn't it?! How are things this AM?

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but do you think that the 11/13 schedule is suitable for Romulus as his AMPS is consistently higher than PMPS? How would I show this on the spreadsheet if I do do it!

@Sue484 11/13 or variations thereof work with ProZinc and should work with Vetsulin/Canninsulin as they are flexible, in and out insulins. I thought you were using Lantus but on a different thread, it looks like you are not. Just be sure the pattern is fairly consistent by testing before every pre shot and watch that you aren't shooting a number that is still dropping.

Lucy, I am so sorry you are having so many bad times with your kitties. But I am sure no one else would care more or treat them better than you do. Hope this morning looks brighter.

 

[Sue484]

@Sue and Oliver (GA) I do use Lantus but for my other cat!!

 

[Critter Mom]

... and an infection we haven't been able to get under control ...

I wonder whether Squallie might have picked up something from your other kitty? If he were to have a low-grade infection then that could bump his BG up. Not sure whether it would affect his appetite, though.

I know you've got too much on your plate, Lucy, but if you have a second it would be great if you could put Squallie's BG numbers for the last few days into his spreadsheet.
Someone might spot something in the data.

Is Squallie showing any signs of nausea?

So sorry things are all in a heap for you, Lucy.


Mogs
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[Olive & Paula]

Lucy, you have your hands full right now. It always seems everything happens at the same time doesn't it.

Your a great mama bean, don't forget that. You should ask the vet for your own parking space. Lol. Or maybe a discount if you are there so many times in a month.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Dear Lucy ~ oh my, you are really having a time of it and I am so sorry. Why do things have to pile up on us? It's so unfair. Deep breath. Was Squallie's appetite decrease sudden? Could he have a bad tooth? I forget if he recently had a dental. His SS is crazy. Black AMPS then down to the 79 at + 6. Wonder if the extremes have him feeling horrible?

I am sending good healing vibes and good eating vibes to Squallie and the civvies with problems too.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

PS If you do decide to switch to a depot insulin like Lantus, I just wanted to mention that I bought some from Alan from the Supply Closet. It was 35 a pen or 5 pens for the price of 4. I received them yesterday. The whole thing with s/h and 3% for paypal came to $ 150.33. It's about the same as getting from Marks Marine Pharm in Canada.

 

[Critter Mom]

Wonder if the extremes have him feeling horrible?

They made Saoirse feel really crummy when she was on Caninsulin. IIRC, Squallie was a bit miserable on it in the early stages of his treatment.


Mogs
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[Sushi The Cat]

I too had all my cats sick at the same time in the past (When I was a lucky mum of 3)... 2 with herpes virus, one of them also with asthma and Fia with an alergic eye reaction to floor detergent and acne flare up at the same time... I lost 2 in a year... Our babies being sick sucks!!
Hang in there, Sweetie!!!

Sending lots of love and healng energy!!
Love you!!!

 

[Merlin]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but do you think that the 11/13 schedule is suitable for Romulus as his AMPS is consistently higher than PMPS? How would I show this on the spreadsheet if I do do it!

You really don't have to do anything different on your SS. If the day would be 13 hours, I didn't add any +13 or anything, I just noted my shot times in the comment section. You can check it out on Merlin's spreadsheet. Because sometimes I would change it, depending on his numbers, I couldn't really do anything different to the SS so I just noted it on the comment section. Sometimes I would put a "x" in the +12 in the PM cycle indicating that he only went 11 hours but stopped doing that pretty quickly.

 

[Squalliesmom]

I wonder whether Squallie might have picked up something from your other kitty? If he were to have a low-grade infection then that could bump his BG up. Not sure whether it would affect his appetite, though.

I know you've got too much on your plate, Lucy, but if you have a second it would be great if you could put Squallie's BG numbers for the last few days into his spreadsheet.
Someone might spot something in the data.

Is Squallie showing any signs of nausea?

So sorry things are all in a heap for you, Lucy.


Mogs
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Hi Mogs. Squallie's SS is updated, it's just on a new tab for 2016 and I don't know how to make it the first one to come up when you open the SS. The infection is in Khoji's leg, because of the bad cut he got, so I don't think that's what Squallie has, but I wouldn't rule out a UTI or maybe even a dental problem. No signs of nausea, he just doesn't seem interested in his food. It scares me because this is what my Beezie(GA) did when his kidneys started to fail.

His numbers were better today, fingers and paws crossed they stay that way!

How is Saoirse doing, Mogs? And you? Hope you are both feeling better and doing well!

 

[Squalliesmom]

Hi Lucy. When it rains, it pours doesn't it?! How are things this AM?

Hi Sharon, thanks for asking. Candy went to the vet today, no cut or scratch in her eye, thankfully! He thinks she got something in it and irritated it more by rubbing it. The vet seemed surprised that I'd put a cone on her (pleasantly so) - sometimes I think he thinks I didn't have pets until the day I started going to his practice, lol!

Squallie's BG seems to be a bit lower today, hoping it stays that way.

And Khoji is still trying to chew off his bandage, and getting into places he shouldn't. He goes back to the vet on Tuesday.

I have taken kitties to the vet 4 times already this month, and I know there will be at least 2-3 more coming; it's killing my bank account! Pretty soon the vet's going to own my soul, lol!

 

[Critter Mom]

Squallie's SS is updated, it's just on a new tab for 2016 and I don't know how to make it the first one to come up when you open the SS.

Put your mouse pointer over the 2016 tab, then click and drag it all the way over to the left hand side of the screen so that it becomes the first tab.

No signs of nausea, he just doesn't seem interested in his food.

Are you getting blood work done soon, Lucy? (I know, I know ... More greenbacks. ) If you're getting a kidney panel done, ask your vet to include a B12/folate check. If he's low a course of B12 can help with appetite. If he doesn't start eating today, I'd suggest asking the vet for some anti-nausea and appetite stimulant meds.

How is Saoirse doing, Mogs? And you?

Saoirse did not have a good time over Christmas - problems with a change in formulation of one of her supplements upsetting her digestive system (have found a supply of the old formula now), being on bupe as a consequence which tends to constipate her slightly, and made the GI distress worse, plus a different generic of ondansetron which made the constipation worse (now back on the one that agrees with her, thank goodness). Me? I'm still oscillating between agitation and exhaustion.

Pretty soon the vet's going to own my soul, lol!

The vet'll have to prise all your kitties' paws off it first!


Mogs
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