Ashley Acting Odd Tonight

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djacks1128

djacks1128

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I was away all of today from this morning until midnight. My husband came home around 6 and found 3 different poops on the floor. I also found one more in my closet when I went looking for her. I don't understand this at all. She doesn't have the greatest relationship with my husband, but usually she's fine and he said that tonight she was exceptionally stressed with him, meowing strangely and hissed at him. He was able to give her the shot and then she went upstairs to sleep in her carrier (she likes her new carrier). When I came home she was under the bed and when he went over to her with me, she acted like that to him again. It seems like she can't see very well. I'm kinda freaking out right now because i went over to her at one point to giver her some treats and i think she thought i was him for a quick second and backed up a bit. She's fine with me otherwise. Also, i don't know if there was any "roughing up" when he tried to corral her (he says no), but some of her fur was coming out in little chunks around her scruff area. What the heck is going on in the last 24 hours???

Also, I just tested her and her BG was 533, I'm guessing from stress. She had a nice(er) 310 at +9 before her PM shot.

This is the link to my earlier/recent posts: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31133
 
OK need to address the increases. If you are going to do the 5% increase method [between 1-2u that is .1u increments] I recommend increasing every 3 cycles. If you are going to do the 10% which would be .2u between 1-2u then I would recommend increasing every 3 days unless you see some progress then you might hold up to 5 days. With the amount you are testing right now, I might go for the 10% method. If you have the option but are short on time try to hit the +3 and +6 [as well as always getting the PSs]. If you can test more than that and have time to do full curves [like testing every 2 hours] that's good too. Getting a full or semi-full curve on the last day of an increase is a good idea. We like to concentrate on the onset hours of about +2, +3 and maybe +4 then nadir hours of +5,+6 and +7.

So you have now been on a 5% increase for 3 cycles. I think it is time for another increase. I hope others will be along to give their $0.02. :smile:

I found that taking away the hiding places [like putting pillows under the bed etc.] makes the whole process less traumatic. The process should be rewarding and calm not traumatic claws dragging from under the bed type thing. I would test H in his bed then give then for the shot I would put him on the floor and give him a belly rub. That would allow me to shoot his belly. BTW where are you shooting? The scruff is the least desirable place. This is a good graphic of places to shoot:
http://www.bd.com/us/diabetes/page.aspx ... 01&id=7374

If you are worried about the DH ask to watch him do it. Explain without accusing that "I decided that we need to work on making this as pleasurable as possible for her. If she ends up not liking this we are in a heap of trouble." Then go over how it's all going to go down: where, when and how rewards are done, etc. As a side note, I had to ditch my longtime girlfriend because she was unable to give me the support I needed while I treated H. This can be hard on relationships.
 
I just went back to reread you r last post, and noticed
1)you started having frequent poop; and now you are seeing frequency, and poop out of the LB. You recently switched off dry completely.

2)And she is acting like her vision is suddenly disturbed.

3)and her numbers are still high. and she hit a very high +3

4) and she seems very PO at DH, and in general. Hissing at mom.... fur falling out at scruff

Suggestions:
1) many cats get smelly diarrhea when they switch to canned. Ask the vet for some Fortiflora, or buy it online. It's a probiotic made by Purina, used in cats with diarrhea, and it tastes very yummy (and can be used to encourage eating)
2)vision suddenly disturbed is alarming to me- you might try posting on the main Health board for more help on that. and go to the vet if it continues tomorrow.
3) I only looked at the ss briefly, but especially with ketones, you may need to increase, as Gator suggested
4) something is definitely up. Cats hide pain well, but she sounds scared about something. Any of the above could make her nervous, feeling bad, and on edge. I'd keep a close eye on things. Could she have gotten into a fight with another animal?
 
Could she have hypo'd today, and is now resistant of the PM shot, and experiencing really high protective numbers from the liver rebounding? I think we need more info and that means more testing mid cycle....

Does she get food at night, and left out all day? grazer or timed feeder?
 
You might also try multiple litterboxes. Not just two but everywhere she is pooping. Also the use of non-scented clumping littler is preferred as it's the easiest for keeping the box clean.
 
I plan to stay home all of today and tomorrow to keep a close eye on her and do screenings.

Gator, thanks for that chart, I'm going to try her flank again instead of her scruff. I've tried this once before and didn't get a good feeling for it. Belly is out of the question...she never liked having her belly touched or rubbed.
I do use non scented clumping litter (World's Best) and scoop 2 to 3 times a day, so the box is generally clean. The first day, she pooped in a spot near where she likes to hang out. I wonder if she just had the sudden urge and maybe didn't feel good enough to go upstairs. Her hind legs seem pretty weak. The other times she pooped outside the box were one toward the top of the stairs and one outside of the bathroom. I wonder if she's just not feeling up to making it in there. Normally, she seems ok going up and down the stairs when she feels like it. I haven't really seen her have trouble with that, however maybe she's getting tired of having to poop all the time and is just like...what the heck, i'll just poop here... I'm going to put a second box in the downstairs bathroom for her.

Should I go up to 1.8 today? I think that's a 4.5 on the U-100.

Nancy, you seem to have hit all of the highlights, although, she didn't hiss at me, just backed up a bit until she realized it was me. Also, the disturbed vision is not a new thing. She's had opacity in her pupils for some time now...it just seemed to be a little worse than normal last night. Eyes very dialated and glowy and she seemed slightly confused about exactly who and where we were. This was when she was quite stressed though so i wonder if that has any affect. As I said, her relationship with DH is not great so she could have just been PO'd that I wasn't home and he was doing her treatments. Maybe she didn't like the way he was handling her. He did say that he is going to watch me more closely and that he wants to try it more with me watching him.

DH is supportive, oddly enough we are separating soon.

I don't think she could have hypo'd. She seems fine with me on her own and i think her numbers are too high to hypo (i'm no expert tho).

Can anyone suggest a link on how to do a curve? Is it just testing every 2 hours?
 
Hi Sheryl,

I would go up to 1.8u today, that is 4.5 on a U100 syringe.

Putting out more litter boxes is a good idea if her hind legs are week from neuropothy she may have trouble getting there, you may want to try some Methyl B-12 for that.

A curve is just testing every 2 hours for a 12 hour cycle. That will give us alot of information.

Come back and post her updates every 2 hours so we can follow along if you can.

Robin
 
If you continue to see a nice U-curve today, but nadir still well above the low blues, I would raise to 1.8 or 2u tonight and then hold that for a couple days and then consider another dose increase if you aren't seeing better #s. If the eye thing continues to be worse like that I would consider a vet trip. My recollection is that there are some eye issues that can be caused by high blood pressure (which I think is fairly uncommon, but might be worth checking?). You can also see it from hypo (which doesn't seem likely from her #s, but today's curve hopefully will give you confirmation/insight). I'm not sure if sustained high BGs can cause that also, seems to me like it could but I'm not really sure.

Do you know if she has some underlying problem causing the vision problems and confusion? It seems like she is a little young for that to be an old age thing. Just wondering - I'll go back and check your other threads to see if that is mentioned...
 
FWIW one of my cats had serious pooping problems on the FF Turkey & Giblets, saw in your profile you are feeding that. Of course ECID, and I have no idea why that specific food caused so much trouble, she tolerates other turkey ok. She also sometimes will poop outside the box even when it's clean - it seems to happen when she is having loose stool and pooping more often - my read is she is associating the box with discomfort and doesn't want to go there. And for unknown reasons she doesn't really seem to like the other empty boxes that are out, she has her favorite box and it's that or bust. ohmygod_smile

Hope things all get straightened out soon! My guess would be DH is rougher than he realizes, but hopefully you'll get some good ideas from the observation session, LOL. Hope you have a clipboard so you can rate him on a list of factors as you observe. :lol: hehe
 
It looks like her nadir was at +4 but she may fluctuate up and down some for a few more hours. We won't know until you have the whole curve done.

Sorry I didn't look at your ss, did you up to 1.8u today?
 
Joanna & Bix said:
FWIW one of my cats had serious pooping problems on the FF Turkey & Giblets, saw in your profile you are feeding that. Of course ECID, and I have no idea why that specific food caused so much trouble, she tolerates other turkey ok.
Click to expand...

Joanna, were you feeding Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblets or Friskies? I'm feeding Friskies Special Diet Turkey & Giblets.

Also, Nancy asked earlier about feedings...I guess you can say Ashley is a grazer.
 
Early nadir with ProZinc in the beginning when not enough insulin seem to be the trend. It looks like the dose was 1.6u.

I'm with upping the dose too to 1.8u. When you test and are not doing full curves [besides the PSs] concentrate on the +3 or +4 then +6. And you are free to capture whatever else you can too. :smile: Up the dose again in 3 days max [unless you think you are seeing progress]. If you happen to be up later at night catching the +3 or +4 before you go to bed can help too. But if you can't that's understandable. :smile:

Good work on getting that curve today -that really helps.
 
I just dose creased to 2 U and shot in her flank...she hated that! I'm worried now that i should never have gone down to 1 U in the first place when she was originally at 2 and then the vet told me to go to 3, which i thought was too high. These numbers are still too high, for too long, and her side affects are getting worse.

Regarding her vision...Joanna talked about the cause. Our vet told me that vision problems and glaucoma is a side affect of the diabetes.

I ordered the methyl B12 today.

She's been very lathargic today and lays down with her head in her water bowl. (I keep an extra little cup of water in the living room where she likes to lay down.)
 
Awww, hopefully she will be feeling better soon. I'd just keep on top of evaluating the dose every 3rd day or so, and as long as you are seeing a shallow U-curve w/o significantly better #s, I'd keep raising in increments of 0.2 or maybe 0.5 if the #s stay high like this. It's frustrating I know, but hopefully you will see some progress soon. It can be a challenge sometimes to break down through the high #s, but it's rewarding when you get to better #s. If you start seeing more consistent yellows I'd probably go to 0.2u increases, but when it's high like this if it were me I'd go more towards a 0.4 increase like you did tonight. There's debate on what increment is best in what situation. I have used PZI Vet but not ProZinc, for disclaimer purposes. :) But I think we pretty much all agree that 1u at a time (really anything over 0.5u) is too much increase, barring some possible exceptions.
 
Update: Ashley Acting Odd Tonight

This is the second cycle on 2U and we are looking better today.
AMPS @ 8:30am 444
Shot 2 U at 8:39
+4 217
+6 192 (our first blue since home testing)

jeez...i feel like i've been depriving her of insulin since i dropped it down to 1 U several weeks ago. i hope this didn't do more damage to her body. She's normally thin, but down to 7.6 pounds now.
my poor baby girl.
 
Don't beat yourself up. You are already doing WAY more than many people ever do. I think many of us also have a checkered past ;-) . The diabetes experience is a big learning experience in many ways, and I would guess it's more common than not to make some choices along the way that you learn from, and try not to repeat. I can tell you I've made about every mistake in the book along the journey. The good thing is that cats are pretty resilient, and in many cases seem to be able to tolerate higher #s without too many bad effects. And on the other hand, you really can't have a disease like this and not get SOME damage from it, so no sense in blaming yourself for that. If she is doing better, that's what matters.

It's so nice to see a blue #, yippee!!! Hope she is acting like she is feeling better too.
 
She is not feeling well today at all and seems very uncomfortable... She seems to have a belly ache with diarrhea. Keeps going in and out of the box (so happy I got another box downstairs). She cannot seem to get comfortable. She lays down for a minute, then changes positions. She just layed down next to me on the couch with her backside propped up on a pillow and her head down on the couch cushion. This seems to be a bit more comfy for her right now.

She's been eating this food for several weeks now, I'm not sure why she's having such a hard time with it now. I'm also not sure if i should try to start looking for another kind of food for them. I chose this one, Friskies Special Diet Turkey & Giblets, and sometimes Friskies Special Diet Beef & Chicken, because it is low carb and also low phosphorus, which seems to be good for Dudley's (Ashley's brother) crystals.

I'm going to post this on the health board too, for some more eyes.
 
Any chance you can try some Wellenss Turkey or Chicken? It's fairly low in P, grain free and low carb. Only draw back is that it is higher in fat which shouldn't make too much of a difference unless your kitties are pancreatitis kitties too. It also cost a little more but if they like it you can stock up when there are sales. Also good are a few of the Merrick flavors.

Many cats benefit from a no-grain diet and find that it upsets the GI much less.

Here is a good topic with some additional flavors that are not in the J&B:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopi ... 28&t=30232
I think it covers the new Before Grain wet food mixes [which are supposedly nutritionally complete now] as well as others.

Did I mention I suggest a grain free food? ;-)
 
Wow...thanks for that spreadsheet!

I've tried Wellness Turkey and they don't like it. I've also tried the Merrick Thanksgiving Day Dinner, Cowboy Cookout, & Grammy's Pot Pie, and they don't seem to like those either. I don't think they like the veggies and stuff in there.

I'm going to try the BG Turkey, chicken & beef...not sure if i have yet. Is that in a different type of can than the Thanksgiving, Cowboy & Pot Pie themed foods?

Ashley's belly ache seems to have passed...she's knocked out cold right now on her back, paws up in the air. I'm trying not to move. I-) I-) I-)
 
Hmmm... even with my IBD kitties, I can't recall seeing behaviour like that of not being able to sit comfortably. Makes me wonder if something more than just run of the mill digestive issues is going on. ??? If she is still acting funny like that I would consider a vet trip maybe? And/or a Health post to see if it rings a bell with anyone. Any chance what you are seeing is signs of a urinary infection? Could the in & out of the box be that rather than a pooper issue (or possibly both issues going on)? I know butt in the air behaviour can be a sign of bladder pain. Just brainstorming here... hopefully she is fine at this point and no issue...
 
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