Ashfur 3/15 PMPS 342 +6 50 AMPS 356 reduced dose by .25 should I do more?

ASHFUR

ASHFUR

Member Since 2021
This happened AGAIN last night?! I gave him 30ml of maple syrup when his BG was at 52 and it went up to 62 for 10 mins but dropped again. BG when down to 50 gave 1/4 tsp of maple syrup because he would not eat any HC wet food and it slowly went up for the rest of the night. I think I may have gave him too much syrup.

I keep reducing his dose and This keeps happening and I am freaking out a little bit. I feel like maybe it HAS TO HAVE EVERYTHING TO do with his diet.

So I started ONLY feeding him at insulin time ONLY. UNTIL I was reading other peoples posts to better understand how to handle my own cat, and I read that a diabetic cat should not go 8 hours without eating. Is this true for every cat? He is over weight and he only eats when he is actually hungry. One day I took away all of his wet food (that I leave out all day for him to free feed) and when it came time to eat at insulin time he actually ate almost the whole meal. BUT Today after I read that post I fed him a meal mid-day and when it came time for insulin he was not as hungry and he just licked the food. Is that why this happened?

I NEED TO KNOW where to go from here. I am off work today....BUT I worry about the rest of the week. I feel like I keep reducing his dose and he just keeps having these lows out of nowhere. IS this good? or not?

I just fed him a whole can of FF trout and I pureed it into a finer pate and he ate the whole thing. Since he ate it all I shot him (exactly hour late not sure how to reflect that onSS) I dosed him 1.5. I am wondering if I should decrease even more since everytime I decrease he stays high a few days and then goes below 50. Considering I have to work all week....maybe 1.25 would be safer. Please help
 
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Onset for Lantus for many cats is at +2. Some it’s a little earlier and others a little later. If that test is lower than the pretest it’s likely to be an active cycle. You need to feed at that point to prevent a drop under 90. For most several small meals keeps the bg from dropping too fast or too low. Feeding only at shot time for most cats just doesn’t work. Let’s see what 1.5 does for him.
 
Hi,

You're not on an island by yourself--we're here too, and can try to help! :bighug:

Hard to know why cats don't want to eat sometimes. I know I go through days when Ruby is ravenous and others when she will sniff at and walk away from her food. In your case, since Ashfur isn't regulated yet, it's important to keep him a little hungry in case he drops low and you need him to eat in order to come back up. Syrup is very short lived in his system. When Ruby was having very active cycles, I was advised to feed her many small meals. So I have divided her total daily feeds to six portions and put them out three times in the morning and three times in the evening, almost all of them before +6 when her insulin starts to wane. You can see Ruby's feeding in her SS in Remarks. This isn't a problem for me as I'm at home or my partner is working from home, but others find an autofeeder to be very convenient. Since there's usually 6 hours from her last meal until her shot, she's hungry and bugging me for her preshot meal.

And the lows are REALLY GOOD! :woot: The more time your kitty spends in green numbers, the more time you give to his pancreas to heal and produce its own insulin again. His liver still needs to get used to those greens so it's still panicking and dumping glycogen into his bloodstream, causing those reds and blacks. His liver will graduate from training school at some point and his cycles will get flatter. I takes some love and lots of patience to see this process through. You and Ashfur are still pretty new to this and I know how emotional it is. It does get easier. :bighug:
 
ASHFUR said:
This happened AGAIN last night?! I gave him 30ml of maple syrup when his BG was at 52 and it went up to 62 for 10 mins but dropped again. BG when down to 50 gave 1/4 tsp of maple syrup because he would not eat any HC wet food and it slowly went up for the rest of the night. I think I may have gave him too much syrup.

I keep reducing his dose and This keeps happening and I am freaking out a little bit. I feel like maybe it HAS TO HAVE EVERYTHING TO do with his diet.

So I started ONLY feeding him at insulin time ONLY. UNTIL I was reading other peoples posts to better understand how to handle my own cat, and I read that a diabetic cat should not go 8 hours without eating. Is this true for every cat? He is over weight and he only eats when he is actually hungry. One day I took away all of his wet food (that I leave out all day for him to free feed) and when it came time to eat at insulin time he actually ate almost the whole meal. BUT Today after I read that post I fed him a meal mid-day and when it came time for insulin he was not as hungry and he just licked the food. Is that why this happened?

He does not need to eat a lot at preshot since insulin won’t kick in until later.

I NEED TO KNOW where to go from here. I am off work today....BUT I worry about the rest of the week. I feel like I keep reducing his dose and he just keeps having these lows out of nowhere. IS this good? or not?

Lantus is dosed based upon how low it takes him. That occurs for many around +5-7 but fir some it’s earlier and others it’s later. He’s earning reductions because you are following SLGS but if you were following TR the reduction number is under 50 so he’s been safe.

I would either get an auto feeder or let him free feed since you will be at work.
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PerfumedCatMom said:
Hi,

You're not on an island by yourself--we're here too, and can try to help! :bighug:

Hard to know why cats don't want to eat sometimes. I know I go through days when Ruby is ravenous and others when she will sniff at and walk away from her food. In your case, since Ashfur isn't regulated yet, it's important to keep him a little hungry in case he drops low and you need him to eat in order to come back up. Syrup is very short lived in his system. When Ruby was having very active cycles, I was advised to feed her many small meals. So I have divided her total daily feeds to six portions and put them out three times in the morning and three times in the evening, almost all of them before +6 when her insulin starts to wane. You can see Ruby's feeding in her SS in Remarks. This isn't a problem for me as I'm at home or my partner is working from home, but others find an autofeeder to be very convenient. Since there's usually 6 hours from her last meal until her shot, she's hungry and bugging me for her preshot meal.

And the lows are REALLY GOOD! :woot: The more time your kitty spends in green numbers, the more time you give to his pancreas to heal and produce its own insulin again. His liver still needs to get used to those greens so it's still panicking and dumping glycogen into his bloodstream, causing those reds and blacks. His liver will graduate from training school at some point and his cycles will get flatter. I takes some love and lots of patience to see this process through. You and Ashfur are still pretty new to this and I know how emotional it is. It does get easier. :bighug:
Click to expand...


Yea its like a chore to get him to eat wet food. He is so picky. I can try this though. Ill break up his meals and I shoot at 9:30am and I dont leave for work until 3pm. But I notice sometimes he peaks later than 3pm. However he actually did eat a whole can this morning of fancy feast.....whoops hopefully he doesnt drop again. I am just praying night and day for one week of simple blues.., .just need one night of solid sleep soon.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
@tiffmaxee If she's following SLGS, she needs to reduce this morning's dose to 1.5, right?
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I reduced to 1.5 but I was tempted to go lower just to not have to do this all over again in a couple days. I feel like I see a pattern happening here. I never thought he would respond so quickly to wet only diet. Were on week one and we are already down a full unit almost in insulin needed. Ugh.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Onset for Lantus for many cats is at +2. Some it’s a little earlier and others a little later. If that test is lower than the pretest it’s likely to be an active cycle. You need to feed at that point to prevent a drop under 90. For most several small meals keeps the bg from dropping too fast or too low. Feeding only at shot time for most cats just doesn’t work. Let’s see what 1.5 does for him.
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Now Ive already messed up and he has eaten a whole 3oz can and it was very low carb. :( Ill attempt to feed him again in a couple hours. At least Im home today if anything should happen.
 

No just one drop from last night. Today is still to early to tell. After a night of giving sugar is it unlikley that you would ever see a drop due to a night of sugar? and also how much is a good amount to give?
 

Can I ask you why that it? Why would someone follow SLSG or TR? Why is it dangerous for some and not the other method? Is TR for more experienced people after they have been gathering data for a longer period of time?
 
ASHFUR said:
Why would someone follow SLSG or TR?
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Following SLGS or TR depends on a couple things. One is your goals for Arthur, the other is your lifestyle. TR requires a certain minimum amount of testing, 4 per day at least. You more than meet that requirement. TR allows you to keep the cat in healing numbers for longer. We call the green numbers the healing zone, where the pancreatic beta cells can get a break as the insulin is going the heavy lifting. Which can hopefully lead to healing and regulation and lower doses. If lucky, also remission. If you have to reduce every time the cat hits below 90, then they spend less time in the healing numbers. Cats can and do go into remission with SLGS, it's just harder.

Some people don't have the lifestyle that lets them follow TR, it doesn't have anything to do with experience. One other big difference, any cat eating dry food must be on SLGS for safety.

Please update the spreadsheet with today's numbers, when you can.

I'm also going to remove the GA from your subject title, as we reserve that for Guardian Angels, or Gone Ahead. And thankfully that's not the case.
 
I think Im starting to understand! Its finally starting to sink in! So feeding is more important
Wendy&Neko said:
Following SLGS or TR depends on a couple things. One is your goals for Arthur, the other is your lifestyle. TR requires a certain minimum amount of testing, 4 per day at least. You more than meet that requirement. TR allows you to keep the cat in healing numbers for longer. We call the green numbers the healing zone, where the pancreatic beta cells can get a break as the insulin is going the heavy lifting. Which can hopefully lead to healing and regulation and lower doses. If lucky, also remission. If you have to reduce every time the cat hits below 90, then they spend less time in the healing numbers. Cats can and do go into remission with SLGS, it's just harder.

Some people don't have the lifestyle that lets them follow TR, it doesn't have anything to do with experience. One other big difference, any cat eating dry food must be on SLGS for safety.

Please update the spreadsheet with today's numbers, when you can.

I'm also going to remove the GA from your subject title, as we reserve that for Guardian Angels, or Gone Ahead. And thankfully that's not the case.
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Oh my! Im sorry I thought it meant "got answer" SORRY
Ok do you think me working from his +6 to +10 hour would leave me away to much to follow TR?
 
ASHFUR said:
Yea its like a chore to get him to eat wet food. He is so picky. I can try this though. Ill break up his meals and I shoot at 9:30am and I dont leave for work until 3pm. But I notice sometimes he peaks later than 3pm. However he actually did eat a whole can this morning of fancy feast.....whoops hopefully he doesnt drop again. I am just praying night and day for one week of simple blues.., .just need one night of solid sleep soon.
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If you are able to eliminate dry food his insulin needs might become a lot less and there’s an even better chance of becoming diet controlled. Max preferred dry food or high carb wet before becoming diabetic but it was surprisingly easy to convert him to fancy feast low carb.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
Hi,

You're not on an island by yourself--we're here too, and can try to help! :bighug:

Hard to know why cats don't want to eat sometimes. I know I go through days when Ruby is ravenous and others when she will sniff at and walk away from her food. In your case, since Ashfur isn't regulated yet, it's important to keep him a little hungry in case he drops low and you need him to eat in order to come back up. Syrup is very short lived in his system. When Ruby was having very active cycles, I was advised to feed her many small meals. So I have divided her total daily feeds to six portions and put them out three times in the morning and three times in the evening, almost all of them before +6 when her insulin starts to wane. You can see Ruby's feeding in her SS in Remarks. This isn't a problem for me as I'm at home or my partner is working from home, but others find an autofeeder to be very convenient. Since there's usually 6 hours from her last meal until her shot, she's hungry and bugging me for her preshot meal.

And the lows are REALLY GOOD! :woot: The more time your kitty spends in green numbers, the more time you give to his pancreas to heal and produce its own insulin again. His liver still needs to get used to those greens so it's still panicking and dumping glycogen into his bloodstream, causing those reds and blacks. His liver will graduate from training school at some point and his cycles will get flatter. I takes some love and lots of patience to see this process through. You and Ashfur are still pretty new to this and I know how emotional it is. It does get easier. :bighug:
Click to expand...


Is it ok to stop feeding him after his peak time so he is hungry for the next dose? His Bg is now coming back up his lowest point was high at 231. He ate a total of (2) 3oz fancy feast classic cans spread out. 1 whole can at dosing time and then at +2 +3 +4 +5 I am literally SHOCKED he even ate that much, he never actually eats a whole can of anything. I feel like he is asking me for more food right now, and I want him to be hungry. Is it ok to stop feeding him for the next 5.5 hours?
 
ASHFUR said:
Is it ok to stop feeding him after his peak time so he is hungry for the next dose? His Bg is now coming back up his lowest point was high at 231. He ate a total of (2) 3oz fancy feast classic cans spread out. 1 whole can at dosing time and then at +2 +3 +4 +5 I am literally SHOCKED he even ate that much, he never actually eats a whole can of anything. I feel like he is asking me for more food right now, and I want him to be hungry. Is it ok to stop feeding him for the next 5.5 hours?
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Yes. I used to feed Max up to +6 unless his bg was low, close to 50 on a human meter. Many cats get really hungry if the bg drops into the 50’s or lower. I always grabbed a extra test if Max was begging for food at an odd time. They also are really hungry when not regulated. You can give a snack but best to stop by +10.
 
ASHFUR said:
Is it ok to stop feeding him after his peak time so he is hungry for the next dose? His Bg is now coming back up his lowest point was high at 231. He ate a total of (2) 3oz fancy feast classic cans spread out. 1 whole can at dosing time and then at +2 +3 +4 +5 I am literally SHOCKED he even ate that much, he never actually eats a whole can of anything. I feel like he is asking me for more food right now, and I want him to be hungry. Is it ok to stop feeding him for the next 5.5 hours?
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It will also take time for Ashfur to get used to his new feeding routine. Ruby reminds me as her internal clock is superior to mine when it’s time for her to eat and she knows that bothering me outside of that range won’t work. I also test her before I feed so she associates the poke with a nice reward after.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
It will also take time for Ashfur to get used to his new feeding routine. Ruby reminds me as her internal clock is superior to mine when it’s time for her to eat and she knows that bothering me outside of that range won’t work. I also test her before I feed so she associates the poke with a nice reward after.
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Is 2 - 3 oz cans in one 12 hour period enough food for him? He is 12lbs. Over weight so I am assuming yes....
 
Depends on the size of the cans and the amount of calories in them. Use your scale to guide you as to how much food is right. My girl was larger (around 14 lbs) and did fine with one 5.5 oz can, though she mostly got raw food which was even less volume.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Depends on the size of the cans and the amount of calories in them. Use your scale to guide you as to how much food is right. My girl was larger (around 14 lbs) and did fine with one 5.5 oz can, though she mostly got raw food which was even less volume.
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Today he ate 6oz of wet food total. And I ordered a kitchen scale off amazon after looking at your chart so I can weigh what he doesnt eat and keep better track of what he is actually ingesting.

And I think this is the start of something good. All those nights he crashed were because he wasn't being fed (poor guy). I hope this is the missing piece to my cluelessness. I pray that we can get into some sort or routine and grove from here on out.

I feel like I should ask this now just in case it happens again. If he should fall again. How much syrup is generally given. I think we were over doing it. Like 1/4 teas is what we gave him. Is that too much?
 
I saved syrup for under 40's, and typically a drop mixed into a bit of food was enough. Cats differ on how carb sensitive they are, so need varying amounts of carbs to bring them up. For Neko, a tsp of higher carb food at a time was usually enough if in the 40's. Keep good notes and on what you feed, when, how much on the spreadsheet Remarks, and you can use that next time to see what worked, what didn't, or worked too well. I'd stay away from dry food if possible, and get an assortment if carbs wet food.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I saved syrup for under 40's, and typically a drop mixed into a bit of food was enough. Cats differ on how carb sensitive they are, so need varying amounts of carbs to bring them up. For Neko, a tsp of higher carb food at a time was usually enough if in the 40's. Keep good notes and on what you feed, when, how much on the spreadsheet Remarks, and you can use that next time to see what worked, what didn't, or worked too well. I'd stay away from dry food if possible, and get an assortment if carbs wet food.[/QUOTE

And that would make more logical sense considering giving a diabetic sugar should be like a last case situation. Ok thank you very much. Hoping I have better luck in the days and weeks ahead.
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