ASAP Dosing, won't eat after surgery

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Bobbie And Bubba

Bobbie And Bubba

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Posting in Health also:

That's a switch for Bubba! Only a couple of bites, maybe a tsp......should I skip shooting tonight or do a real reduced shot? He was 343.
 
Have you tried all the tricks to see if he would eat anything? If he was mine and he was able to get say a couple of tsp or a tablespoon of food down him, I would go ahead and shoot the full dose. You don't want him to feel even ickier because of the diabetes. If he didn't eat at all, I remember discussion indicating that maybe 1/2 dose but it sounds like Bubba ate a little. Did you try ground up chicken, bonita flakes, chicken broth, tuna broth, fish, etc., etc., etc?
 
I put some forti flora on and tried some Young Again dry, just a few bites of wet, I will try tuna broth.....thanks, and if he drinks a little, I will go ahead and shoot, it's about 50 mins. late at this point.
 
Woo hoo - I am so glad. I remember one time I actually broke the cardinal rule of purposely feeding only low carb food. Merlin wasn't eating at all in the am and was not eating for the pm shot time and I was determine to shoot so I gave him some medium carb food. For some reason he ate that, so that enabled me to shoot. After that, he was fine. Sometimes, you just have to do whatever to get them to eat. So that is an option too but thankfully, you don't have to do that. So glad Bubba is home. Did he have glaucoma?
 
Not glaucoma yet but, that would have been the eventual progression. He has what is called Diffused Iris Melanoma. The iris develops flecks of darker color. Started off gradual and progressed. When those spots become raised and velvety looking and the pupil becomes mis-shappened like his, it becomes suspicious for a possible malignancy. Taken the eye can hopeful prevent it from spreading but not a guarantee. Poor boy. He ate about 1 oz of tuna, drank a lot of the juice and about 1 tbsp. of his regular food. I gave him a fat 2units where I had been giving him 2.2. I will monitor @ +2.5 and through the night. Thanks for you help!
 
If he won't eat, I agree with Cindi...feed him whatever he wants. If he won't eat and you have to skip, it may be the beginning of a recipe for DKA. I'm NOT saying that will happen...just letting you know why we try to avoid skipping. I'll be around here tomorrow morning about 5:15ish in Central Time if you need anything.

I'd say if you can get him to eat something, even like a tablespoon or so, it's good to shoot. I know you can and will monitor. :) If you can't get much food, you can always reduce, but some insulin is best. Glad Bubba is home! I'm sending him tons of chin scritches and sending you tons of hugs!
 
Thanks so much Rachel. He did manage to eat some tuna, maybe a 1 oz and drank lots of tuna juice and ate 1 tbsp. of regular food. Funny how I forget all those tricks as it is happening to me. I have some chicken stock so, if need be, I will give him some of that tomorrow. He is really zonked out hiding inside my closet. I might go into the closet and sleep next to him. ;)
 
Glad you got him to eat and were able to give his insulin. I hope he's feeling better tomorrow, he may just need to get the anesthesia out of his system. Go curl up with him, many times I've slept on the floor with mine...
 
I think we all do! I know all the things about low numbers...but when Gypsy had a 90 at preshot, I panicked and had to get someone to tell me not to shoot! :)
 
Carol C said:
any way to lift him onto the bed?
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He doesn't want to be near me, (he hates me now!) he just wants to hide, either in the closet or behind a chair in my bedroom. This morning, he did come out of hiding when he heard me feeding the rest of the zoo and he did eat some, just not his usual.
 
He doesn't hate you, I'm sure you know that. Cats often hide when not feeling well-keeps them safe out in the wild. He'll feel better soon and 'forgive' you. Glad he ate some this AM. Just curious, what pain med is he on?
 
Sharon14 said:
He doesn't hate you, I'm sure you know that. Cats often hide when not feeling well-keeps them safe out in the wild. He'll feel better soon and 'forgive' you. Glad he ate some this AM. Just curious, what pain med is he on?
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Good Morning Sharon, they sent me home with 7 vials of Buprenex, an opiate, very expensive! I gave him a dose last night but it really zonks him out. I don't know whether I should give him more as he is eating.....and I can't judge how he is if he is all doped up. Also, the side effects is constipation and he went into the surgery yesterday without pooping and still didn't today. Catch 22 here.
 
Yep, Sharon's right! He just doesn't feel well. Heck, when I don't feel well I don't really want to be around other people either...just want to be in bed alone so I can sleep!

What did the vet say about dosing the bupe? Did they say to give each day or just "if needed"?
 
Yes pain meds can make you feel bad too and not want to eat. Is he drinking enough? If so, would Miralax be appropriate? I know they have to drink plenty to use it and not to use it if they are blocked.
 
Rachel said:
Yep, Sharon's right! He just doesn't feel well. Heck, when I don't feel well I don't really want to be around other people either...just want to be in bed alone so I can sleep!

What did the vet say about dosing the bupe? Did they say to give each day or just "if needed"?
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Just as needed, they gave me enough to go through the weekend because they are not open this Saturday. I just don't know if I should give him anymore because my thinking is, if he were in pain, would he be eating? And, I had to ask the receptionist for pain meds for him; it wasn't originally on his file when she was checking him out.
 
I've always found that pain meds in animals cause more problems. If I give it at all, it's usually half what is recommended. I've always found that if they're on pain meds, they keep moving and jumping around, if not, they rest and we don't have to deal with nausea and constipation. I can't take any type of opiates, they make me truly VIOLENTLY ILL. I'd rather be in pain than than have to sit with a bucket in lap for hours at a time. I think if we could ask our critters that, they'd sat the same thing.
 
Mogmom and Goofus said:
I've always found that pain meds in animals cause more problems. If I give it at all, it's usually half what is recommended. I've always found that if they're on pain meds, they keep moving and jumping around, if not, they rest and we don't have to deal with nausea and constipation. I can't take any type of opiates, they make me truly VIOLENTLY ILL. I'd rather be in pain than than have to sit with a bucket in lap for hours at a time. I think if we could ask our critters that, they'd sat the same thing.
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Thanks so much Tammy, that is kind of how I was thinking about it also. Ironically, last night when I did dose him with the Buprenex, it wasn't the whole vial, accidentally, and then I thought to myself "that's all he needs"
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Thanks so much Tammy, that is kind of how I was thinking about it also. Ironically, last night when I did dose him with the Buprenex, it wasn't the whole vial, accidentally, and then I thought to myself "that's all he needs"
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I think pain management is on a case by case management- as I understand it, there's been a recognition of how pain management in animals had been very neglected for a long time, and that animals, truly in pain, need to have relief.
 
Carol C said:
I think pain management is on a case by case management- as I understand it, there's been a recognition of how pain management in animals had been very neglected for a long time, and that animals, truly in pain, need to have relief.
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I believe that too as they will heal better when not suffering. I just am not sure if he needs it because he is eating and his number was lower this morning. It's so hard to know if cats are in pain.
 
Carol C said:
I think pain management is on a case by case management- as I understand it, there's been a recognition of how pain management in animals had been very neglected for a long time, and that animals, truly in pain, need to have relief.
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I agree, but I feel that the cats should be observed for signs of being in in pain before meds that can cause other problems are given. I know my kitties well enough to know when something is wrong. When Goof had his broken tooth pulled, he got 2 doses of the pain med and was back to eating his food with his usual vigor.

I had a cat that after being spayed was given pain meds, she was so active she tore herself open. After that, no meds, she layed around for a day or two and was acting like her old self after that. So yes, I agree, case by case.
 
Glad to hear Bubba is home and recovering! Sounds like he is doing pretty good considering everything. That's a tough call on the pain meds, but I think most agree, that it varies depending on the cause of pain and the cat. You know your Bubba well, so go with your gut instinct. So happy to read he is eating and his numbers are good! Hugs for a speedy recovery and hang in there Bobbie, you are doing great! :bighug:
 
Sharon14 said:
Good morning Bobbie, how's Bubba this AM?
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GM, Sharon! He's coming around. Early this morning when I awoke to go potty, he was sitting in front of the French door looking out instead of sleeping around the clock. His appetite is completely back which is good. I am still giving him the pain meds because he has been meatloafing a lot and by the time it's ready for another dose he cries when I pick him up which indicates to me that he is in pain. He has minimal swelling! It is amazing! I will be glad when the cone can come off and I can let him back down into his "man cave" (he misses it, sits by the basement door. He is going into day 3 with no poop. Hope that changes soon...... Thanks for asking. How is Colin doing with the Levemir?
 
I wonder if his meat loafing could be associated with the cone too? It's scary and annoying to him? Just a thought, but I'd give him the pain meds too, maybe wean him off them when you think the time is right. As far as poop, though, Pain meds can constipating, I wonder if you should give him something to help now, to prevent it from getting worse, Could he have Miralax? I give it to Colin sometimes. Colin is playing a trick, or a treat on me today. Got a 133 this AM, stalled and got 137. He's never had a blue, hardly ever a yellow! I fed him and posted on L&LL forum, but haven't heard anything. He's scheduled for a dental Tues, but lost a tooth earlier this week. I wonder if that tooth had been infected and losing it may help him, or is this just a fluke? One thing I know is we're gonna bounce...
 
Sharon14 said:
I wonder if his meat loafing could be associated with the cone too? It's scary and annoying to him? Just a thought, but I'd give him the pain meds too, maybe wean him off them when you think the time is right. As far as poop, though, Pain meds can constipating, I wonder if you should give him something to help now, to prevent it from getting worse, Could he have Miralax? I give it to Colin sometimes. Colin is playing a trick, or a treat on me today. Got a 133 this AM, stalled and got 137. He's never had a blue, hardly ever a yellow! I fed him and posted on L&LL forum, but haven't heard anything. He's scheduled for a dental Tues, but lost a tooth earlier this week. I wonder if that tooth had been infected and losing it may help him, or is this just a fluke? One thing I know is we're gonna bounce...
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Wow! Go Colin and let's hope it isn't a trick or treat and that that tooth coming out was a source of infection now gone! I did just read that the buprenex in constipating on a cat site forum, a whole discussion about it. AND, most of the cats are getting .1 ml ( that is the RX dose) and the tech gave me 7 syringes measuring .49ml to be given one twice a day !! Holy cow, thank God I have been shooting it mostly down his throat (it is not absorbed well in the GI tract) rather than getting it along side his cheek. No wonder it cost me $100 for this medicine for 3 days!!!! The vet office is closed today so I can't talk to anyone.
 
Seems like several people on the site use Bupe, maybe one of them could give you some info.
It's been an hour since I posted about Colin, and still haven't heard anything and I know some of the knowledgable ones were on line in the L&LL forum because they answered other posts. Sigh, it's lonely there. Lev has a very slow, late onset, so you're supposed to shoot low numbers, so I guess I'll give him a dose, not a full one though. Wish me luck...
 
Sharon14 said:
Seems like several people on the site use Bupe, maybe one of them could give you some info.
It's been an hour since I posted about Colin, and still haven't heard anything and I know some of the knowledgable ones were on line in the L&LL forum because they answered other posts. Sigh, it's lonely there. Lev has a very slow, late onset, so you're supposed to shoot low numbers, so I guess I'll give him a dose, not a full one though. Wish me luck...
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I am sorry you are being ignored. That sucks. Did you try posting on Health too for more eyes? Good luck, keep me posted.
 
Thanks, no I didn't post on Health. I figured the ones who know Lev were online in that forum, if they don't answer there... Anyway I gave a half dose. Was planning on going to work today, but I'll skip. He's acting exactly like he always does. I'm not too worried because I can keep an eye on him. I'm sure it's just an anomaly and he'll be high again PMPS. Nice to have a bit of excitement though!
 
Sharon14 said:
Thanks, no I didn't post on Health. I figured the ones who know Lev were online in that forum, if they don't answer there... Anyway I gave a half dose. Was planning on going to work today, but I'll skip. He's acting exactly like he always does. I'm not too worried because I can keep an eye on him. I'm sure it's just an anomaly and he'll be high again PMPS. Nice to have a bit of excitement though!
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I hope that it is a trend that he stays with! And NOT a trick or treat. I just read on a veterinary site about the bup and it says dosage is .33ml for a 11 lb cat and Bubba is 16.5. So, I am feeling better about that. Have you ever used miralax for your cats?
 
CatX4 said:
Glad to hear Bubba is home and recovering! Sounds like he is doing pretty good considering everything. That's a tough call on the pain meds, but I think most agree, that it varies depending on the cause of pain and the cat. You know your Bubba well, so go with your gut instinct. So happy to read he is eating and his numbers are good! Hugs for a speedy recovery and hang in there Bobbie, you are doing great! :bighug:
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Welcome back Lynn! How was you vaca? And how did the cats do in your absence? And Happy belated Birthday to you!!:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
:bighug:Glad to hear that Bubba is through surgery and recovering. Hope he and Momma Bean get some much needed rest.
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Thanks Sue, we are getting there! I will be glad when he is completely healed up and we can shed the cone! Safe travels for your return trip and I bet you are going to need a vacation after your vacation! :bighug:
 
I have used the Miralax. 1/8 tsp mix plenty water in the food with it. It pulls water into the gut to help them pass the poop. And don't use it if he has a blockage is what I was told.
 
Sharon14 said:
I have used the Miralax. 1/8 tsp mix plenty water in the food with it. It pulls water into the gut to help them pass the poop. And don't use it if he has a blockage is what I was told.
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Thanks, I think the only blockage he has is a bunch of poop! I think I better pick some up.
 
Sharon14 said:
Seems like several people on the site use Bupe, maybe one of them could give you some info.
It's been an hour since I posted about Colin, and still haven't heard anything and I know some of the knowledgable ones were on line in the L&LL forum because they answered other posts. Sigh, it's lonely there. Lev has a very slow, late onset, so you're supposed to shoot low numbers, so I guess I'll give him a dose, not a full one though. Wish me luck...
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@Sharon14 Yes it is lonely. Sharon your doing great with Colin. When I don't hear from someone there I'll post in main thread or mostly use my own judgement because by then it's to late. Sometimes I think I've been blacklisted because I won't choose a protocol.
 
woodsywife said:
@Sharon14 Yes it is lonely. Sharon your doing great with Colin. When I don't hear from someone there I'll post in main thread or mostly use my own judgement because by then it's to late. Sometimes I think I've been blacklisted because I won't choose a protocol.
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This makes me so sad for y'all. We are so lucky in the ProZinc forum being so small. If you preface the title ASAP DOSING, will that make a difference in someone getting back to you?
 
just to pop in - Bobbie - when Murphy was first dx, he didn't poop for 4 days - I used miralax 1/8 tsp twice a day, and then also psyllium husks powder (can get at Whole Foods) - was recommended to me on this forum - can use 1/8 tsp bid - my vet said can push miralax up a bit
there's a site felineconstipation that gives a ton of information - if you search constipation on this forum, you will find it and of course there is canned pumpkin
@Sharon14 - maybe Colin has turned the corner I sure hope so - just reading about Lantus is so confusing I wish we could help you here - I know I would be terrified to shoot into that low a dose but here's hoping Halloween will scare all the bad sugar vibes away today for all our kitties
 
Carol C said:
just to pop in - Bobbie - when Murphy was first dx, he didn't poop for 4 days - I used miralax 1/8 tsp twice a day, and then also psyllium husks powder (can get at Whole Foods) - was recommended to me on this forum - can use 1/8 tsp bid - my vet said can push miralax up a bit
there's a site felineconstipation that gives a ton of information - if you search constipation on this forum, you will find it and of course there is canned pumpkin
@Sharon14 - maybe Colin has turned the corner I sure hope so - just reading about Lantus is so confusing I wish we could help you here - I know I would be terrified to shoot into that low a dose but here's hoping Halloween will scare all the bad sugar vibes away today for all our kitties
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Thanks Carol. I am going to pick up some miralax this afternoon and put it in his food this evening. The buprenex is apparently very constipating. He went into the surgery on Thursday morning without pooping so Wed. was the poor guys last time......he all ready gets pumpkin in every meal. We gotta bring out the big guns now.....How is Murphy doing?
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Thanks Carol. I am going to pick up some miralax this afternoon and put it in his food this evening. The buprenex is apparently very constipating. He went into the surgery on Thursday morning without pooping so Wed. was the poor guys last time......he all ready gets pumpkin in every meal. We gotta bring out the big guns now.....How is Murphy doing?
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definitely check out the felineconstipation site - my vet said if needed, for a short period, can bump up miralax to 1/4 tsp bid - I do believe the psyllium husk also really works for fiber -
 
Carol C said:
definitely check out the felineconstipation site - my vet said if needed, for a short period, can bump up miralax to 1/4 tsp bid - I do believe the psyllium husk also really works for fiber -
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Do you give it daily or just as needed. Thanks, his numbers are in the yellow today so he must not be too uncomfortable.
 
I gave it daily for awhile, but then I stopped it - it seems like when i started young again he started having a bm every day - I do give 1/8 tsp of the psyllium powder every day though (for pure fiber) in his canned food
 
The one good thing about dry was they pooped. Smokey does but it's so much less now. I started some pumpkin to keep him going. Can't say there is a difference yet. But he likes it.
 
Maybe they go less because they are able to utilize the wet food better, so less waste? Colin actually has some diarreah now, since the antibiotics I guess. Started giving a probiotic. He's on pumpkin too.
 
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