? Anyone have luck with Vetsulin?

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Misterbeesmom

Misterbeesmom

Member Since 2016
After 10 months of poor regulation with Lantus, we started working with Vetsulin. My poor boy has been sick for so long :(

We're in our 3rd week on it. Right from the start there was a pattern, unlike with Lantus which had BG's all over the place. That I like very much.

The problem is we can't get beyond +6 without his BG rising quickly into the 300's and 400's. Even with vet's permission of dosing every 6 hours. Nadir is around +4, then we're back up again. At +6 he's usually still in the 200's, but at +7 or later, he's up into 300's/400's.

This is on 3.5u (u40 syringes) every 6 hours. Lowest nadir recorded so far is 152. Do you think with a higher dose at some point he'd get low enough at nadir to hold a duration beyond +6 at least? It's not possible, ideal, or sustainable to keep having to dose him at +6.

thanks
 
My Romulus was diagnosed in December 2014 and due to the cascade system in the UK was put on Caninsulin/Vetsulin. It has only really been since Friday just gone that we have been seeing any real results.
 
Carter was on Vetsulin for a few weeks before switching to Lantus. You can check on Carter's SS if you want to see how he did on it for that short amount of time.

What you're seeing is a typical Vetsulin cycle. It hits hard, has an onset starting as early as +2, nadir is usually around +4 and then it begins to leave the body. Vetsulin typically doesn't last beyond 8-10 hours if that. So, with Carter, even though he had nadirs in the 100s, he'd be in the 500s by preshot time again. He went as high as 4 units with the same result. Just because the dose is higher, and could possibly create a lower nadir, will not necessarily have any impact on the duration of the insulin. Because it's in/out, I found regulation hard to achieve.

Did you consider Levemir at all? I ask because you have experience with Lantus, and I've read a lot of unsucessful Lantus users had much flatter cycles with Levemir.
 
We had fairly good luck with Vetsulin, but Squallie was one of the lucky few, apparently, who got a full, 12-hour duration out of it. I changed from Vetsulin to Lantus after about 9 months because Vetsulin was so harsh, at 16 I didn't want Squallie to have to keep enduring the steep, sharp drops it gives. Vetsulin is much harsher than Lantus. I am with Erica & Carter, I'm curious to know if you investigated Levemir? It does kind of seem to be the go-to for those having difficulty achieving regulation with Lantus.
 
Erica & Carter said:
Carter was on Vetsulin for a few weeks before switching to Lantus. You can check on Carter's SS if you want to see how he did on it for that short amount of time.

What you're seeing is a typical Vetsulin cycle. It hits hard, has an onset starting as early as +2, nadir is usually around +4 and then it begins to leave the body. Vetsulin typically doesn't last beyond 8-10 hours if that. So, with Carter, even though he had nadirs in the 100s, he'd be in the 500s by preshot time again. He went as high as 4 units with the same result. Just because the dose is higher, and could possibly create a lower nadir, will not necessarily have any impact on the duration of the insulin. Because it's in/out, I found regulation hard to achieve.

Did you consider Levemir at all? I ask because you have experience with Lantus, and I've read a lot of unsucessful Lantus users had much flatter cycles with Levemir.
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Squalliesmom said:
We had fairly good luck with Vetsulin, but Squallie was one of the lucky few, apparently, who got a full, 12-hour duration out of it. I changed from Vetsulin to Lantus after about 9 months because Vetsulin was so harsh, at 16 I didn't want Squallie to have to keep enduring the steep, sharp drops it gives. Vetsulin is much harsher than Lantus. I am with Erica & Carter, I'm curious to know if you investigated Levemir? It does kind of seem to be the go-to for those having difficulty achieving regulation with Lantus.
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I've bumped up the dosage and it doesn't seem to get us any lower, or push the nadir out any further. its a bummer because the pattern is so helpful to have, especially after trying to decipher the mysterious ways of Lantus for 10 months. we got into DD for about 2 days at one time and then never saw them again. it was crazy.
I talked to my vet about BCP PZI which I've heard good things about, with its duration and very similar to cat insulin. she's open to trying it though she isn't familiar with it. if that doesn't work i'll keep levemir in mind. I hope I can get my hands on the BCP PZI very soon because I cant bear him going through these cycles. I still have lantus in the fridge but really don't want to use it.
 
Hi Jen,

Sounds like MisterBee's showing a classic response to Vetsulin (quick drop, low for a few hours then shooting back up again any time from +6 onwards). As Lucy mentions above cats who do well on Vetsulin/Caninsulin tend to be the exception, not the rule.

I second Erica's recommendation to perhaps consider Levemir. (I'm currently looking into the possibility of getting it for Saoirse since the higher dose of Lantus she now needs seems to be adversely affecting her somewhat.) Here's a link to a Think Tank thread discussing cats' responses to Lantus and Levemir (with further links in the destination thread). I found it very helpful. Several contributors commented that their cats seemed to have smoother BG levels on Levemir after having difficulties trying to regulate their cats on Lantus.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/attention-lantus-to-levemir-users.122941/


Mogs
.
 
PS: Any chance of adding notes to Mr B's spreadsheet to identify which insulin was used when, please? (Without that info it's impossible to understand the data properly.)


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Jen,

Sounds like MisterBee's showing a classic response to Vetsulin (quick drop, low for a few hours then shooting back up again any time from +6 onwards). As Lucy mentions above cats who do well on Vetsulin/Caninsulin tend to be the exception, not the rule.

I second Erica's recommendation to perhaps consider Levemir. (I'm currently looking into the possibility of getting it for Saoirse since the higher dose of Lantus she now needs seems to be adversely affecting her somewhat.) Here's a link to a Think Tank thread discussing cats' responses to Lantus and Levemir (with further links in the destination thread). I found it very helpful. Several contributors commented that their cats seemed to have smoother BG levels on Levemir after having difficulties trying to regulate their cats on Lantus.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/attention-lantus-to-levemir-users.122941/


Mogs
.
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thanks I will keep it in mind. I got the ball rolling on the BCP PZI so i'm going to give that a try. interesting thread you shared. thanks!
 
Critter Mom said:
PS: Any chance of adding notes to Mr B's spreadsheet to identify which insulin was used when, please? (Without that info it's impossible to understand the data properly.)


Mogs
.
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that was him on lantus. I updated the title. I don't know how to easily record for dosings at +6, +8, etc, on the ss format we have. is there a way?
 
Yes!!!!

Smiffy on the verge of being in remission ......

My computer is down at them moment (this from iPad) but in a few days I will have Smiffy's spreadsheet up to date for you to see.

All of Smiffy's threads have Smiffy in the title but currently check out 'Smiffy's new low numbers August/September".

Have a read and contact me if you have any questions.

Vetsulin sometimes only lasts for 8 hours but for Smiffy it started to last the full 12 hours after a while and she has done really well on it.

Looby and Smiffy xxx
 
No luck here so far...... I'm trying to regulate my guy, but like you said, there are harsh spikes after a certain amount of time..... I'm considering a change of insulin but they're so expensive so I'm giving Vetsulin a little more time to work. I just don't see it happening though.
 
Callie seems to be doing well with Vetsulin. It usually doesn't quit till close to the 11th hour. I see how well she acts and feels. She is like a cuddly kitten and her fur is soft and sleek. I really hate to change.
 
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I have had very good results on vetsulin and am on day 8 of our off the juice trial... Hopefully heading for official remission next week.
 
I agree about likeing the predictability of vetsulin. When I look at a lantus spreadsheet my head spins. Once I latched on to my cats patterns it became fairly easy to predict what a certain dose would do with good accuracy.
 
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MClarke087 said:
No luck here so far...... I'm trying to regulate my guy, but like you said, there are harsh spikes after a certain amount of time..... I'm considering a change of insulin but they're so expensive so I'm giving Vetsulin a little more time to work. I just don't see it happening though.
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On 9/7 you got pretty good numbers with 7 units. I am curious why you dropped that down to 6?
 
donnalea said:
Callie seems to be doing well with Vetsulin. It usually doesn't start till the 10th-11th hour. I see how well she acts and feels. She is like a cuddly kitten and her fur is soft and sleek. I really hate to change.
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Wow thats unusual it kicks in so late. Glad its working for you!
 
JanetNJ said:
I agree about looking the predictability of vetsulin. When I look at a lantus spreadsheet my head spins. Once I latched on to my cats patterns it became fairly easy to predict what a certain dose would do with good accuracy.
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I really hate how enigmatic lantus is. We were constantly trying to pin down a pattern. Never did.
JanetNJ said:
I have had very good results on vetsulin and am on day 8 of our off the juice trial... Hopefully heading for official remission next week.
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thats wonderful!! Congrats!
 
I found when I finally found her "breakthrough dose" and was able to get her into lower numbers mid cycle I started to see the insulin working for longer periods. Our real healing came with the introduction of young again food which I credit for her current progress.
 
JanetNJ said:
On 9/7 you got pretty good numbers with 7 units. I am curious why you dropped that down to 6?
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Some folks here suggested he may be in a state of rebound and recommend the drop. I tend to agree with them but since he missed a dose a few days ago he's been out of control again.
 
MClarke087 said:
Some folks here suggested he may be in a state of rebound and recommend the drop. I tend to agree with them but since he missed a dose a few days ago he's been out of control again.
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I would personally go back to 7 for a while.
 
JanetNJ said:
I would personally go back to 7 for a while.
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I tend to agree with you.....I'm so confused! One day it looks like coming down from 7 units is a good idea, but the next day it seems to be a bad idea. I can't get a grasp on this whole thing.
 
MClarke087 said:
I tend to agree with you.....I'm so confused! One day it looks like coming down from 7 units is a good idea, but the next day it seems to be a bad idea. I can't get a grasp on this whole thing.
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I know you were considering a change in insulin, have you decided on that? Maybe start a new thread so we don't hiJack Jen's thread.
 
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