Any Gluco Naviii users out there?

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Hercule's mum, Aug 8, 2020.

  1. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Hi Everyone,

    I am trying to save money and transition to a human meter. i bought the gluco navii, and am just taking for a ride first time today.

    My kit did not come with a standard solution, which I tought was odd. I use the standard from the alphatrak2, which given me around 8.2 and the navii read 5.2. Later on. I did a real blood reading and alphatrak2 gave me 5.8, while navii 4.5. I understand that is about the relative numbers, and once you know where to worry in each meter, we should be fine. However, I was hoping that even though the number were different that they would go up and down in parallel. It concerns me that there is such a big difference in the middle of the range, and smaller at the end of the normal.

    Has anyone compare these meters before and have any insight to share. What kind of numbers does people get with the navii and how to interpret?

    My bank account will be very grateful for any comments!
     
  2. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Most of the time, if you try to compare one meter with another, especially a pet meter with a human meter, the result is that you drive yourself crazy.. They are calibrated differently (e.g., a 50 on a human meter is about a 68 on a pet meter). The difference between a human and pet meter gets larger as the numbers go higher so what may be an 18 point difference could be LOTS bigger if numbers are in the 300s. Generally, stick with one meter and don't try to compare.

    I don't recall seeing anyone using the meter you mentioned. It looks like it has pretty decent ratings on Amazon.
     
  3. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Thanks Sienne! i am quite new to this whole thing and Hercs had a couple of hypos this week, so I need to know what number I need to worry about with this new meter. I know this assumes that alphatrack is a good meassuring stick, but is the only thing I have? Perhaps I'll keep using both side by side, until I feel confortable I know what numbers I need to panic :woot:
     
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  4. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...mation-and-important-linksplease-read.224794/

    Scroll down to where the title says "regulation" at the bottom of the list of topics it says:
    "HOW LOW IS TOO LOW"
     
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  5. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Morning, Karen.

    As you've observed, there is no linear relationship between the readings taken on human and veterinary meters. The variance typically gets larger the higher the BG level.

    Ohhhh, yes. And recognised it's a fairly fruitless pursuit.

    For general information, glucometers are only accurate to within +/-20% of the actual BG concentration in any given blood sample. Even if you were to test the same blood droplet on the same meter with two different strips there is likely to be some discrepancy between the meter readings, though they should be very close to one another.

    The bottom line is to choose the meter you want to use, make sure you know the correct reference range to use with it and carry on gathering data. Trying to make comparisons between veterinary and human devices is an expenditure of time for no real benefit.


    Mogs

    (Note: I typed this earlier but forgot to hit the Post Reply button. Sorry for any duplication of info posted by others.)
    .
     
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  6. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    How many times have I done that? Let me count the ways....:rolleyes:
     
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  7. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020

    Thanks Mogs. I really appreciate whatyou are saying, and understand I am going down a rabbit hole, but on your quote above lies the crux of the biscuit..... Is probably because I still very insecure, but at the moment a bright green versus an green reading is a lot for me! :nailbiting:
    According with gluco navii he hit green today and I should be thinking about reducing the dose yet again.... but since I have been using the at2 I assume i don't..... I am a scientist so I'll keep collecting data and will come back to report! :D
     
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  8. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Preach!

    I know exactly where you're coming from, Karen. I loved my Alphatrak and I could never make the switch to a human meter. Rationally and logically I know human meters are absolutely fine to use - seen more proof of that here than you can shake a stick at - and it would have saved me a pile, but it was a bridge too far for my anxiety-disordered brain. :nailbiting: :oops: :rolleyes:


    Mogs
    .
     
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  9. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I was just on the Lantus board and there's a member there using the same meter. I'm tagging him:
    @Tom & Monty
     
  10. Tom & Monty

    Tom & Monty Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2020
    Hi there.

    I switched from AT2 to Gluco Navii a few weeks back and a few things.

    1. Yes the strips are far cheaper, a test with the AT2 would cost me around £0.94, with the GN it's £0.14.
    2. The GN needs a slightly bigger sample
    3. Have a look at my Monty's SS in my signature to see his numbers around the switch date. Don't even worry about trying to translate the numbers from AT to GN, they won't make sense. The error margin is too large to plot a translation without doing hundreds of tests. I had a day where I tested with both AT2 and GN and once GN increased slightly when AT2 decreased slightly.
    4. The protocols SLGS and TR are calibrated for human glucometers, trying to use a pet meter to make decisions on them is the same problem you have here but in reverse. You'll need to recalibrate your brain to think about GN numbers and forget about AT2.
     
  11. Tom & Monty

    Tom & Monty Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2020
    As for the number differences in the middle range being larger, it doesn't matter :D

    The only numbers that are important are:

    1. The dose reduction threshold
    2. The no shoot threshold
    3. The dose increase threshold
    4. The renal threshold

    The first 3 are documented by TR and SLGS and calibrated for human meters like the Gluco Navii.

    (4) Is different for each cat but is around 14 (250) on a pet meter or 11.5 (~200) on a human meter, this number will vary and you'll learn what this number is for your cat if they show symptoms like excessive peeing or drinking.
     
  12. Douglas_my ginger cat

    Douglas_my ginger cat Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2020
    This is a brilliant post and perfect timing for me, thank you!! I was literally just about to order both the Alpha Track and Gluco Navii. My thought process was to use the Alpha Track for glucose curves to show my vet and then the Navii in between to get me use to testing. I also thought that the difference between the readings were the same regardless (so a reading of 28 on the AT would be 25 on the Navii so a difference of 3 throughout). How wrong was I!

    Think I will start with the Alpha Track until I am confident.

    @Hercule's mum, how did you find the testing to start with? Any invaluable tips you can share :D
     
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  13. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    @Douglas_my ginger cat I only have a few data points, but it is looking VERY promissing:

    upload_2020-8-9_9-58-26.png


    The fact that the number difference change is due to the fact that the line is not at 45 degree angle, but it is an amazingly good line! So very good correlation, just requires a more complicated function to translate from one to another. My line matches the values that Tom suggested (Thank you! @Tom & Monty ), which is a bonus and a second confirmation that these little things are quite accurate! I thankfully have not collected data in the very low end, It might get squished there, but I guess one can have some alphatrack strips for those events?
     
  14. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    In conclusion, I will not be translating numbers between the two meters, but I feel confident that they are meassuring the same thing and very accurately. They are giving exactly the same "evaluation" even though they might be "speaking different languages". :smuggrin:

    Thanks so much for tagging Tom, Sienne!
     
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  15. Douglas_my ginger cat

    Douglas_my ginger cat Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2020
    That's reassuring to know. I think once I get the hang of testing, I will move over to the Gluco Navii just as its cheaper in the long run.

    Thank you for conducting the test :joyful:
     
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  16. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    I think this is a good strategy! As Tom mentioned, it does require a bit more blood, so I think the alphatrak2 is a good starting point for nervous ear pokers like me....
    Also, vets like "pet" numbers, so is good to have the At2 for making "official" blood curves.
     
  17. Tom & Monty

    Tom & Monty Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2020
    If you have someone to help you then paw poking is an option too. We trained monty to associate pokes with food using his paw then graduated to ears. He used to hate being tested and we'd initially use a towel to burrito him, these days when he sees the glucometer he runs to the sofa where I test him and purrs.

    Now we only use paws when his ears are a bit sore to give him a break.
     
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  18. Douglas_my ginger cat

    Douglas_my ginger cat Member

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    Jul 25, 2020
    Yup, my vet said Alphatrak as he believe's human glucose numbers are 'unreliable'. But until I understand it all I will compromise. it is still a hell of a lot cheaper than taking Douglas to the vets for a glucose curve!

    That's the dream!!! :cat:

    2 weeks ago, I was stressing about administering the injection, but with the help of some tuna, it's normal. Never thought I would say that. So I am hopeful for the testing. Just need to get a good treat to associate positively with the testing.....
     
  19. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Douglas, I started giving a "pet munchies" treat everytime the glucometer goes "beep". And I bring the bag with much fanfarre to the table where he is tested. After a week, hercs is already coming up to the table to get tested.....
     
  20. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi @Hercule's mum,

    The 'Gluco Navii' is quite new on the scene, and is only just beginning to be used by UK folks (last 5 - 6 months, I'd guess...). It is made by the people who make the SD Codefree meter which has been quite popular with UK folks for a wee while now, not least because it is the cheapest meter to use. The advantages of the newer Gluco Navii are that it takes a smaller blood sample than the older SD Codefree, and the blurb about it says it's 'more accurate'. But actual experience with it in UK kitties is limited at the mo precisely because it is new and doesn't have a lot of history on feline diabetes forums.

    As you've read above, there is not necessarily much to be gained by comparing human and pet meter numbers, other than that it can be an interesting excercise. ...Been there, done that, hehe! ...In fact in the early months of my first diabetic's diagnosis I nearly drove myself (and probably others here too :rolleyes:) crazy trying to fathom the difference between the two, and I can remember posting here asking in a very exasperated tone, "but which meter is more accurate?!!!", only to be met with people very patiently reassuring me - yet again - that they are both accurate, they just read in different ranges...

    Probably 'the' most important thing to know is what is 'too low' on each of the meters because you need to know what may be in hypoglycemic range. With human meters that's numbers below about 2.7 mmol, and with pet meters it's about 3.6 mmol (according to the Alphatrak manufacturer). The lower you go below these numbers, the greater the risk.
    For those using Caninsulin the general starting advice is to try to not let the blood glucose drop below about 5 - 5.5 mmol at first (on a human meter), at the peak of the cycle. The reason for this caution is that Caninsulin can drop the blood glucose quite fast/steeply in some kitties, and 'aiming' to not have it drop below about 5 - 5.5 at first gives some buffer of safety in case it does actually dip a bit lower. If using Prozinc it's not usually 'so' important to be as cautious, but it can still be worth being cautious initially just until you know how 'your' kitty responds to insulin because, as we never tire of saying around here, 'every cat is different'... :cat:

    In terms of other human glucose meters, there are lots of choices out there. The Accuchek and One Touch meters are perennially popular. I happen to like the One Touch Verio at the moment, and get all my test supplies on Ebay because it's much cheaper.

    Eliz
     
  21. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Wow! That's a big saving. Where do you get your test strips, Tom?


    Mogs
    .
     
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