Another terrified newbie (28/8)

[CatCharlie]

Hi,

My baby Charlie got diagnosed diabetic 4 weeks ago at the charity vet I see because I am low income disabled. (UK based)

He started on 1 unit (mg?) Caninsulin every 12hrs and the following week they dropped it to 0.5, bumped it to 1 the week after and 2 weeks later at his next visit raised to 1.5. They didn't do any blood or urine testing at these appointments and have not given me any kind of testing stuff to use at home or recommended anything I can purchase myself. I had a look on the caninsulin page but got enormously overwhelmed and confused and don't really know what to do as I've not been told to check his BG or how to or what to use or anything.

He's lost a lot of weight, his spine is poking through, he's not pooping or eating as much (he will eat his half a can of normal wet food every 12hrs that he has his jab with but is barely touching the diabetic dry food i have (gradually) switched him and the other cat to, which is 35g each a day and most of their diet. Charlie weighed 6kg to start but is now only 5. His back legs are now seeming a little weak and in the last 2 days he's not drinking/peeing as much as before but has lost some bladder control. He'll be lying on the floor and then he'll be wet underneath. He's not emptying his bladder on the floor just dribbling a bit and will use the tray still for proper wees.

I'm terrified for him and I don't know what to do or where to start and I can't change vet or drug as i am stuck with the charity vet. I'm doing my best but I don't know how I can do better, just that I feel like I'm failing him.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi I'm sorry no one has gotten back to you yet and the charity vet told you nothing st all and did no blood work or urine testing .
You're in a tough situation and I'm sorry
I'm going to tag a few members for you that are familiar with caninsulin
First here is some info for you for members from the UK , there is lots of information about food, , what meters you can buy, food for your hypo kit and lots more
One thing right now be sure you feed Charlie first then you have to wait 30 minutes to give insulin, caninsulin hits hard and fast
Since you don't have a meter yet I would feed him small snacks every 2 hours
Be sure to feed him small snacks

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-vit-b12-and-other-need-to-know-stuff.137376/

@Suzanne & Darcy
@JanetNJ

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Meantime
If you can set up what we call our signature that would be helpful
Information about Charlie

To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information

• Add info we need to help you:
  • Caregiver & kitty's name
  • DX: Date
  • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
  • Name of your meter
  • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
  • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
  • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
  • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
  • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
  • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.

Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Once you start testing Charlie

We also use a spreadsheet to track our cat's BG numbers to see how the insulin is working and how low it's dropping and in case you need any advice , if you are interested in setting one up just ask , we have a member who will be happy to do it for you


We don't increase insulin by whole units, we increase or decrease by 0.25 units at a time so you don't skip over a good dose for Charlie

They come in half unit increments but still make it easier when adjusting by 0.25 units

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
Here is a video one of our members made testing her kitty
She's using a pet meter that has to be coded ,with a human meter you don't have to code it.
I have always used a human meter
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi and welcome to you and Charlie. Diane has given you some good advice how you can help Charlie and help us help you.
There is no need to only feed twice a day. I would give a good feed at shot time and then give several snacks during the cycles (each 12 hours). I would give snacks 2 hours and 4 hours and 6 hours after the shots.
There is no need to swap to the diabetic dry food. It is too high in carbs. Canned food you can get at pet stores and supermarkets is fine as long as it is low carb. (10% carbs or under). I’ll tag @Teetee (UK) as he has great food charts for UK people.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

UK INFORMATION

 

[CatCharlie]

Hi Diane,

Thank you so much for your reply.

I saw the bit about setting up a signature but don't have a spreadsheet, couldn't understand the instructions for setting one up and don't understand a lot of the requested info-

• • Name of your meter
  • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
  • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
  • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
  • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.

Basically I don't know what any of that means

 

[CatCharlie]

Hi,

So before the diagnosis he and my other cat were sharing 2 pouches or single serve tins of wet food (gourmet gold which is the only one they will eat) and having dry food for the rest of their meals as I cannot afford wet food for every meal and they both prefer to nibble dry thoughout the day to having set mealtimes (and as my sleeping hours suck due to chronic illness its hard to make sure I am awake to feed them and supervise every 12hrs let alone wake every two hours to feed them several small wet meals in the form of snacks). Their dry food has been switched from regular to a low carb diabetic one.

Hi and welcome to you and Charlie. Diane has given you some good advice how you can help Charlie and help us help you.
There is no need to only feed twice a day. I would give a good feed at shot time and then give several snacks during the cycles (each 12 hours). I would give snacks 2 hours and 4 hours and 6 hours after the shots.
There is no need to swap to the diabetic dry food. It is too high in carbs. Canned food you can get at pet stores and supermarkets is fine as long as it is low carb. (10% carbs or under). I’ll tag @Teetee (UK) as he has great food charts for UK people.

 

[CatCharlie]

See this is already contrary to what the vet instructed which was to inject straight after feeding.

See what I responded above regarding feeding it is not possible for me to wake up every 2 hours throughout the day to provide snacks but he has access to (diabetic) dry food which he nibbles (just small amounts at a time) between meals which the vet approved but now I'm doubting the vet

One thing right now be sure you feed Charlie first then you have to wait 30 minutes to give insulin, caninsulin hits hard and fast
Since you don't have a meter yet I would feed him small snacks every 2 hours
Be sure to feed him small snacks

@Suzanne & Darcy
@JanetNJ

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Can you tell us what the diabetic Dry is called please.?
I will ask @Bandit's Mom to help you set up a spreadsheet
With caninsulin you need to feed 30 minutes before the insulin dose. I’m surprised the vet did not tell you.

 

[CatCharlie]

Thank you that's very very helpful info. I have ordered the recommended testing machine which will be delivered today and some ketone strips to arrive tomorrow.

Is him having a tiny bladder leak while resting a couple of times an expected normal thing or is this an emergency? I have been up half the night worried about losing him if his kidneys are going or something. He's still drinking normally and using the litter box.

The dry food is purina diabetes management the vet (!) Said it was ok. She said absolutely don't put him on a grain free diet. The one I saw last week advised against any further changes to his food while we figure out his optimal insulin dose.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Hi I'm sorry no one has gotten back to you yet and the charity vet told you nothing st all and did no blood work or urine testing .
You're in a tough situation and I'm sorry
I'm going to tag a few members for you that are familiar with caninsulin
First here is some info for you for members from the UK , there is lots of information about food, , what meters you can buy, food for your hypo kit and lots more
One thing right now be sure you feed Charlie first then you have to wait 30 minutes to give insulin, caninsulin hits hard and fast
Since you don't have a meter yet I would feed him small snacks every 2 hours
Be sure to feed him small snacks

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-vit-b12-and-other-need-to-know-stuff.137376/

@Suzanne & Darcy
@JanetNJ

This is very good advice,Diane. Thank you.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

The Purina diabetic dry management food is 18% carbs which is considered high carb food and not suitable for diabetic cats who need 10% or under carbs. Vets promote prescription foods because that is where they get their dietary education from…the big cat food manufacturers.
Let’s see if we can find you some cheaper low carb canned food which is much better for diabetic cats.
You will need to be careful when swapping over to a low carb diet as it will drop the Blood glucose (BG)…we can help you with that.
The tiny bladder leak could be from FLUTD Which is a common condition in some cats. One of mine had it. It is not life threatening. It can be triggered by stress. Google FLUTD for more information. Try not to stress about it as it can be managed.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Hi Diane,

Thank you so much for your reply.

I saw the bit about setting up a signature but don't have a spreadsheet, couldn't understand the instructions for setting one up and don't understand a lot of the requested info-

Basically I don't know what any of that means

It’s okay if you don’t understand a lot of this stuff yet. We are here to help. Just ask anything and everything that you can think of.

 

[CatCharlie]

Hi Bron,

So I don't need to take him to the vet before our next visit (week and a half)? He gets so stressed out and often pants for a few min on returning home and doesn't function properly for a couple of days and it's awful having to keep taking him in especially when all they do is weigh him and check his heart and don't even test his blood or anything.

the vet advised against changing their food again while trying to get him stabilised or even once he is stable so I don't know what to do about that, i don't think wet food alone will work though as I can only feed them every 12 hrs and both prefer grazing small meals to eating large amounts of wet food in a single sitting. The non diabetic cat eats her half a pouch in two sittings over four hours already and it's pretty gross after six hours.

The Purina diabetic dry management food is 18% carbs which is considered high carb food and not suitable for diabetic cats who need 10% or under carbs. Vets promote prescription foods because that is where they get their dietary education from…the big cat food manufacturers.
Let’s see if we can find you some cheaper low carb canned food which is much better for diabetic cats.
You will need to be careful when swapping over to a low carb diet as it will drop the Blood glucose (BG)…we can help you with that.
The tiny bladder leak could be from FLUTD Which is a common condition in some cats. One of mine had it. It is not life threatening. It can be triggered by stress. Google FLUTD for more information. Try not to stress about it as it can be managed.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Is he going to the litter box more than normal? The reason I am asking this is I am wondering if he could have a UTI?
If it is just a tiny leak and not extra trips to the LB I think it is more likely to be FLUTD especially as it sounds as if he gets stressed easily.
A good thing for stress is a feliway collar or diffuser.

In my opinion it is crazy to say that you need to get a cat stabilised first before changing the food. There is no logic in that.
The things a diabetic cat needs to be treated successfully are:

• Insulin
• Low carb diet
• Hometesting
• Plenty of fluids

One way around feeding when you are at work is to get automatic timed feeders for both the cats that open when you preset them. In summer you can freeze the canned food and it will be unfrozen by the time the cat needs to eat it. Just something for you to think about.

 

[CatCharlie]

If anything he's peeing less- but a more normal amount as with the diabetes until a few days ago he was still drinking about 800ml daily and going to toilet constantly. Now he's probably drinking more like 200-300 which is his regular drinking amount really.

I thought about a timed feeder but they're very expensive especially the ones which lock to a specific cat which I would need as I have to keep her wet food away from him or he will eat hers as well as his.

I suppose the vet logic is that changing food from regular to low carb can mess with glucose levels making it hard to initially stabilise?

Is he going to the litter box more than normal? The reason I am asking this is I am wondering if he could have a UTI?
If it is just a tiny leak and not extra trips to the LB I think it is more likely to be FLUTD especially as it sounds as if he gets stressed easily.
A good thing for stress is a feliway collar or diffuser.

In my opinion it is crazy to say that you need to get a cat stabilised first before changing the food. There is no logic in that.
The things a diabetic cat needs to be treated successfully are:

• Insulin
• Low carb diet
• Hometesting
• Plenty of fluids

One way around feeding when you are at work is to get automatic timed feeders for both the cats that open when you preset them. In summer you can freeze the canned food and it will be unfrozen by the time the cat needs to eat it. Just something for you to think about.

 

[Bandit's Mom]

Hello and welcome to FDMB!
I can help set up your spreadsheet and signature. Will send you a PM with the details I need. Look for it in the Inbox at the top right corner of this page.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Hi,

So before the diagnosis he and my other cat were sharing 2 pouches or single serve tins of wet food (gourmet gold which is the only one they will eat) and having dry food for the rest of their meals as I cannot afford wet food for every meal and they both prefer to nibble dry thoughout the day to having set mealtimes (and as my sleeping hours suck due to chronic illness its hard to make sure I am awake to feed them and supervise every 12hrs let alone wake every two hours to feed them several small wet meals in the form of snacks). Their dry food has been switched from regular to a low carb diabetic one.

We need to find out what the carb content of that dry “diabetic “ food is. I bet it’s not low carb at all. Dare I hope it’s less than 10 percent carbs? I’m not really familiar with UK foods. Are you able to find it on the UK food list?

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

See this is already contrary to what the vet instructed which was to inject straight after feeding.

See what I responded above regarding feeding it is not possible for me to wake up every 2 hours throughout the day to provide snacks but he has access to (diabetic) dry food which he nibbles (just small amounts at a time) between meals which the vet approved but now I'm doubting the vet

You should be doubting that vet. You have been given completely wrong information/instructions about feeding and, of course, other things as well. Also you have been given an insulin that is not a good one for cats. I understand that is what the charity vets do though. We have had other members in the same situation with charity vets in England.

 

[CatCharlie]

Hi,

Their dry food is not on the list. Bron said 18% though.

Yes I think they are bound by the cheaper medications and poor ability to monitor but unfortunately I am stuck with them as my situation has changed drastically since I got the cats. I have also been given contradicting advice from different vets at that practice.

We need to find out what the carb content of that dry “diabetic “ food is. I bet it’s not low carb at all. Dare I hope it’s less than 10 percent carbs? I’m not really familiar with UK foods. Are you able to find it on the UK food list?

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

See what I responded above regarding feeding it is not possible for me to wake up every 2 hours throughout the day to provide snacks but he has access to (diabetic) dry food which he nibbles (just small amounts at a time) between meals

A lot of people who cannot give snacks every 2 hours (due to work, illness, etc.) use automatic timed feeders to dispense snacks for their cats. I am only mentioning this in case you find yourself in a position to get/purchase one in the future. I know it must be frustrating to be getting suggestions that you feel like you cannot implement, but it would also be wrong of is to not tell you the truth about the things you can do to help Charlie to be safe (and avoid a hypoglycemic event) as well as hopefully regain strength and health.

The problem with the free feeding (well, there are a lot of problems with free feeding dry food, but specifically when it comes to avoiding hypos) is that the cat does not always eat enough or at the right time. We cannot always rely on just having food available to keep our cats from dropping too low in their BG. I have been seeing this recently with another member’s cat. The kitty has food available and even eats some (in this case high carb kibble) but then the food “wears off” and the cat drops down into unsafe numbers.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

I have also been given contradicting advice from different vets at that practice.

And I suppose you don’t get to choose which vet you see at visits either? That is really frustrating/annoying and even alarming. I’m so sorry. I think we were discussing with another member the possibility of if they would ever give ProZinc insulin after giving the Caninsulin at fair try. I don’t know if they will.

 

[CatCharlie]

No, no choice of vet just whoever is available. It's a horrible situation.

And I suppose you don’t get to choose which vet you see at visits either? That is really frustrating/annoying and even alarming. I’m so sorry. I think we were discussing with another member the possibility of if they would ever give ProZinc insulin after giving the Caninsulin at fair try. I don’t know if they will.

 

[JL and Chip]

Hello and welcome to the forum. You’ll find a lot of valuable information and many folks who are willing to help. Even all these years later, I remember how confusing it was in the early days. It gets easier.

Tagging a couple of other UK folks.
@Elizabeth and Bertie
@Diana&Tom

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

The dry food is purina diabetes management the vet (!) Said it was ok. She said absolutely don't put him on a grain free diet. The one I saw last week advised against any further changes to his food while we figure out his optimal insulin dose

Well the second vet who said not to make changes to the food is a little better. But 18 percent is a very high carb food for a diabetic (or any) cat. And it’s stupid to say not to put cats on grain free diets. Cats are obligate carnivores and grains are not a part of their natural diet. Grains supply carbs, which cat’s bodies are ill-equipped to process. But anyway, your cats have to eat, for now, the food that you have on hand. If you can transition them at a later time to a diet that is lower in carbs and healthier for them, then be sure to make changes to their diet very slowly because reducing carbs definitely has a positive effect for reducing blood sugar (some cats can even go off of insulin entirely when switched to a low carb diet). In other words, if switching to low carb food you need to test blood glucose levels and most likely reduce the insulin dose in order to keep Charlie safe. That is just for future reference.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

No, no choice of vet just whoever is available. It's a horrible situation.

It is. I’m so sorry.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

With regard to your signature, the kind of information that is helpful is:
Cat’s name and age. Your first name if you wish. Date of diagnosis. Type of insulin. Type of food. Date of DKA (if any). Any other health conditions.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Now you said he seemed to be having hind leg weakness? That is most likely diabetic neuropathy. It’s treated by giving methylcobalamin (a form of vitamin B-12 that you do not need your vet’s permission to give.) A product that was formulated especially for cats is called Zobaline which contains 3 mg of methylcobalamin with 200 mcg of folate. However, there are lots of other methylcobalamin supplements that can be used.

 

[CatCharlie]

I read about that somewhere on here but zobaline doesn't seem to be available UK and I'm absolutely terrified to give him anything unlicensed or that I have to mix or dose myself the absolute influx of information I'm having to try and process right now in addition to worrying about charlie has burned me out I'm autistic as well and I'm struggling to cope with it all its too much to take in in one go but it seems crucial I am able to understand it all immediately

Now you said he seemed to be having hind leg weakness? That is most likely diabetic neuropathy. It’s treated by giving methylcobalamin (a form of vitamin B-12 that you do not need your vet’s permission to give.) A product that was formulated especially for cats is called Zobaline which contains 3 mg of methylcobalamin with 200 mcg of folate. However, there are lots of other methylcobalamin supplements that can be used.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Don’t feel badly. I was overwhelmed with new information too and I am not even autistic. There are also a lot of emotions involved that make everything more difficult. I had to re-read things over several times (information contained in the sticky notes on the various forums) because, I think, I would get emotionally overwhelmed and my brain would just shut off.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi Diane,

Thank you so much for your reply.

I saw the bit about setting up a signature but don't have a spreadsheet, couldn't understand the instructions for setting one up and don't understand a lot of the requested info-

Basically I don't know what any of that means

Signature looks good can you just add the date when Charlie was diagnosed
Just put DX and date
@CatCharlie

I found this in the link for UK members about dry food
There are currently (May 2020) three dry kibble foods in the UK that are relatively low in carbohydrates (close to 10% cals from carbs or a bit above). These are: Porta 21 Sensible 'grain free' from Zooplus, and Thrive premium plus ('chicken' and 'chicken & turkey' flavours - NOT the fish flavour..)

There is also Ziwi Peak air-dried cat food which is less than 10% calories from carbs. This is really dried meat with nutritional additives, so the texture is not like that of regular kibble.

Be aware that, if switching to a lower carb food - even if that food is dry - it is still important to be monitoring the cat's blood glucose at home and reducing the insulin dose if necessary in order to avoid hypoglycemia.

 

[Teetee (UK)]

Hi @CatCharlie
There are quite a few foods you can try on this UK cat foods page that show the carb content.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml#
I don't know if you have seen this UK Information page, it's brilliant and has helped me a lot.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-vit-b12-and-other-need-to-know-stuff.137376/
Also it's always wise to double check the Analysis on the food box when you buy it as they can and do change, i use this carb calculator to double check things.
https://secure.balanceit.com/tools/_gaconverter/index.php?
I have also created this UK food spreadsheet below that might help you, it has carb content, calories per gram of food and how many calories a cat needs per day.
The last four are higher in carbs and can be used if Charlie drops too low to help steer him.
When our cat was taking B12 supplements we gave him what's recommended on the UK information page.
People in the US often use a methyl B12 supplement called 'Zobaline' specifically made for cats. And UK folks used to use that also, but it has now become expensive to import.
One alternative is to use 'Dr's Best fully active B12' methylcobalamin. To equal the 3mg Zobaline dose you will need two of the Dr's Best capsules. Zobaline also contains a small amount of folic acid. And if you want to copy the Zobaline formula you can add the folic acid also. One drop of 'BioCare Vitasorb Folic Acid' liquid should contain the 200 mcg necessary (but check the product details beforehand to be sure).
Taken from the UK information page, it's a fantastic thread and full of very valuable info.
I know things are hard money wise but i would seriously, seriously consider switching to another vet, one that knows what they are doing and will actually take blood and urine tests. I cannot believe the vets you're seeing have not even done this.
As for testing equipment, i'm afraid you will have to buy your own and i cannot recommend one as i use Alphatrak and the strips are expensive, however most members on here use human meters which are a lot cheaper, maybe @Elizabeth and Bertie or @Diana&Tom can advise on a human meter.
As others have stated the purina diabetes management is no good for Charlie, it's very expensive and more important it's too high in carbs, also it's a dry food and it has zero moisture so if he does not drink enough water it can lead to dehydration and a UTI infection.
Take a look at my post here, it might help with getting Charlie hydrated and peeing better.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/posts/2986214/
edit: I've just noticed that you have already ordered a meter, can i ask what you ordered.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I found this for the Methyl B-12 ,but when I tap on the link for it it says page not available so I googled it for you
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctors-Best-Methylcobalamin-strength-Circulation/dp/B01M0PVJ49


You would need to give 2 per day



Doctor's Best, Fully Active B12 (Methylcobalamin), 1500 mcg, 60 Veggie Caps | Vitamin B12 high strength | Non-GMO | Vegan | Gluten Free | Supports Healthy Memory, Mood and Circulation

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

https://www.bodykind.com/supplement...tamins-30ml-liquid-p363#ctl00_cpBody_contents
From the UK information link

One alternative is to use 'Dr's Best fully active B12' methylcobalamin. To equal the 3mg Zobaline dose you will need two of the Dr's Best capsules. Zobaline also contains a small amount of folic acid. And if you want to copy the Zobaline formula you can add the folic acid also. One drop of 'BioCare Vitasorb Folic Acid' liquid should contain the 200 mcg necessary

If you can't afford this then just get the Methyl B12. Better than nothing

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Don't be nervous about the spreadsheet
About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers



You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

 

[CatCharlie]

Hi everyone

Thank you for being so kind. How would I give the B12 caplets? Are they powder in a capsule? He usually won't eat his food if I put anything in it is my concern. Are those human one a day but I'm supposed to give him 2? And that's safe??

I would love to switch vet but this is the only charity vet in my area and I cannot afford even the consult at another vet let alone the insulin and syringes.

I did look at the food list but it's very overwhelming and I got bogged down immediately and couldn't process anything.

I looked at one of your spreadsheets but I don't really understand what I'm looking at, when I'm supposed to be testing him, what numbers I'm looking for and how to adjust his insulin down if necessary. It's very scary to take into my own hands even if the vet isn't being very helpful beyond not costing me more than I can afford.

I ordered the gluconavii which has arrived and I had a look at the instructions and now need to watch the instruction video for cats again but still don't know what numbers I need or when to test.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Thank you for being so kind. How would I give the B12 caplets? Are they powder in a capsule? He usually won't eat his food if I put anything in it is my concern. Are those human one a day but I'm supposed to give him 2? And that's safe??

I just looked and it says currently unavailable that stinks. But I found these available in the UK
Here is the link they are tablets so just crush them up and add to wet food you would have to give 3 per day they are safe
https://www.naturesbest.co.uk/vitamin-bs/vitamin-b12-1000g-methylcobalamin/
The ingredients look fine to me

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi everyone

Thank you for being so kind. How would I give the B12 caplets? Are they powder in a capsule? He usually won't eat his food if I put anything in it is my concern. Are those human one a day but I'm supposed to give him 2? And that's safe??

I would love to switch vet but this is the only charity vet in my area and I cannot afford even the consult at another vet let alone the insulin and syringes.

I did look at the food list but it's very overwhelming and I got bogged down immediately and couldn't process anything.

I looked at one of your spreadsheets but I don't really understand what I'm looking at, when I'm supposed to be testing him, what numbers I'm looking for and how to adjust his insulin down if necessary. It's very scary to take into my own hands even if the vet isn't being very helpful beyond not costing me more than I can afford.

I ordered the gluconavii which has arrived and I had a look at the instructions and now need to watch the instruction video for cats again but still don't know what numbers I need or when to test.

@Suzanne & Darcy
Hi Suzanne The methyl B-12 I first suggested that she can get from the UK Amazon UK which was Doctors Best is currently out of stock the pic is up top so I found another one which looks of to give I.looked at the ingredients can you take a look also and maybe answer her other questions
Thanks Suzanne

Edit she did get the Doctor's Best see her post #40

 

[CatCharlie]

I got the powder capsule ones from amazon- (sometimes if your location is set to USA it won't have items available from UK) hopefully he will eat food with them mixed in- can I give both with one meal or should they be spread out? I'm skipping the folic acid for now- it had a lot of extra vitamins I was concerned about.

I just looked and it says currently unavailable that stinks. But I found these available in the UK
Here is the link they are tablets so just crush them up and add to wet food you would have to give 3 per day they are safe
https://www.naturesbest.co.uk/vitamin-bs/vitamin-b12-1000g-methylcobalamin/
The ingredients look fine to me

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

got the powder capsule ones from amazon- (sometimes if your location is set to USA it won't have items available from UK) hopefully he will eat food with them mixed in- can I give both with one meal or should they be spread out? I'm skipping the folic acid for now- it had a lot of extra vitamins I was concerned about.

Oh so they did have the ones Doctors Best from Amazon UK if so give 2 a day and you can give both with one meal. I didn't add the folic acid either with the ones I bought and they did work
@CatCharlie

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I would love to switch vet but this is the only charity vet in my area and I cannot afford even the consult at another vet let alone the insulin and syringes.

I did look at the food list but it's very overwhelming and I got bogged down immediately and couldn't process anything.

I looked at one of your spreadsheets but I don't really understand what I'm looking at, when I'm supposed to be testing him, what numbers I'm looking for and how to adjust his insulin down if necessary. It's very scary to take into my own hands even if the vet isn't being very helpful beyond not costing me more than I can afford.

I ordered the gluconavii which has arrived and I had a look at the instructions and now need to watch the instruction video for cats again but still don't know what numbers I need or when to test.

@Suzanne & Darcy

 

[Teetee (UK)]

I got the powder capsule ones from amazon- (sometimes if your location is set to USA it won't have items available from UK) hopefully he will eat food with them mixed in- can I give both with one meal or should they be spread out? I'm skipping the folic acid for now- it had a lot of extra vitamins I was concerned about.

What we used to do with Duke is give him the capsule direct into his mouth because he refused his food with it in. We used the folic acid as well, just opened the capsule and put one drop in.
They are fairly large capsules and Duke hated taking them, but needs must.
We stopped using it a couple of years ago when it showed in his blood test that he was over the recommended range, another reason for blood tests. You can see if you look at his vitamin B12 results in his labs on my spreadsheet. (column 36)
We got ours from dolphin fitness that have next day delivery if you need to order again.
https://www.dolphinfitness.co.uk/en/doctors-best-fully-active-b12-60-veggie-caps/123208

 

[CatCharlie]

Hmm, my vet is not running labs or anything. I may try initially 3mg a day then drop to 1.5 if his legs get better and drop altogether if he returns to normal or dose on an observational basis because I don't want to make him ill.

What I really need help with now is: when do I test- immediately before food? Then every 3 hours after for a day? (I have to order more lancets and strips which won't come until Wednesday, i have 10 right now assuming I don't balls it up.)

What number ranges (human meter) do I withold insulin? What do I stall on and do I just feed him with no insulin if his number remains low on a stall? What numbers am I looking for on the x-hourly testing? What do I do based on those numbers? He doesn't see the vet again until the 10th.

There is an awful lot of information on the post about this and it's all in full sentences and with words I don't recognise like 'nadir' and my brain keeps checking out. Is there a simple table with hours/number range and what to do for each range that I can refer to?

Thank you all again for being so kind and understanding to a very scared person who just wants their baby to be ok.

What we used to do with Duke is give him the capsule direct into his mouth because he refused his food with it in. We used the folic acid as well, just opened the capsule and put one drop in.
They are fairly large capsules and Duke hated taking them, but needs must.
We stopped using it a couple of years ago when it showed in his blood test that he was over the recommended range, another reason for blood tests. You can see if you look at his vitamin B12 results in his labs on my spreadsheet. (column 36)
We got ours from dolphin fitness that have next day delivery if you need to order again.
https://www.dolphinfitness.co.uk/en/doctors-best-fully-active-b12-60-veggie-caps/123208

 

[Teetee (UK)]

Sorry i'm not a Caninsulin user so i can't really help regarding pre shot and feeding and giving the injection but i have found this on the Caninsulin page.
Hopefully a Caninsulin user can help more.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

FEEDING SCHEDULES - CANINSULIN (VETSULIN)
Do not be tempted to reduce the amount of your cat’s food in hope that this will reduce her overall BG levels. Decreasing calories could be detrimental to your cat’s health. Your cat needs to eat an appropriate amount of food for her size and weight. There are certain circumstances, however, when it is helpful to temporarily withhold food (or rather, to delay feeding): these circumstances are explained further down this section.

• There are particular considerations when using faster-acting insulins such as Caninsulin (Vetsulin) especially for newcomers or for those with little or no BG test data about how their cat responds. This is because Caninsulin/Vetsulin can sometimes drop the BG fast in the first few hours of the cycle.
• Because this insulin can drop BG quickly, it is important to feed your cat 20 - 30 minutes before giving insulin. This ensures there is food on board for when the insulin starts to work. So, the sequence would be: (1) Test BG. (2) Feed. (3) Wait 20 - 30 mins. (4) Give the insulin shot. (If you are not yet home testing it is still advisable to feed and then wait before giving the shot).
• Some caregivers feed a snack (or part of the main meal) an hour and a half to two hours after the shot. This strategy can slow down the rate at which the BG is dropping.
• If you can determine when your cat's nadir (lowest BG) typically occurs during a 12-hour cycle, you can make food available prior to that time. Again, several small meals spread out before nadir can help to soften fast drops in numbers. Timed feeders can be helpful for caregivers who can’t be there in person to feed their cat.
• Some caregivers using Caninsulin (Vetsulin) withhold food for the second half of the cycle in order to slow down the rate at which the BG rises as the effect of the insulin wears off. If your cat’s BG rises fast after the peak of the cycle you may find this technique useful.
• In any case, it can be helpful to withhold food for the two hours prior to a pre-shot BG test. This is just to ensure that the test result is a ‘true’ reading and isn’t influenced by food.

 

[CatCharlie]

Hi! I did read through that page but got very bogged down in all the details and my brain just couldn't take it in

 

[Teetee (UK)]

Ok, don't worry i know it's mind boggling at first, we all go through it, but each and every day we take it in bit by bit.
As for you feeding and injection schedule.
1) Test
2) Feed straight away after testing
3) Wait 20-30 minutes then give Charlie his insulin.

 

[Teetee (UK)]

Where abouts are you as i have seen this from a UK member giving some food away, they are in Nottingham.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/u100-syringes-and-food-and-litter-uk.280746/

 

[Teetee (UK)]

Ok, don't worry i know it's mind boggling at first, we all go through it, but each and every day we take it in bit by bit.
As for you feeding and injection schedule.
1) Test
2) Feed straight away after testing
3) Wait 20-30 minutes then give Charlie his insulin.

I forgot to add that if Charlie is low on his preshot then you will need to stall and retest after 20 minutes to see if his BG has risen enough to give him his injection.
Do you have some high carb food for if he drops too low?

 

[CatCharlie]

Thanks Tee, I can follow those instructions! Is there a BGC level I should refrain from giving insulin?

Unfortunately I'm in Manchester an hour or two away with no transport and while I do have a friend there he travels to visit on the train and it may be a bit hefty for him!