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smokeymay

Member Since 2012
Sorry to bombard the board with 911 posts, but this is the most difficult week of cat care I've ever known.

So my vet called tonight. The good news is that she was more aware/alert than before. She still can't stand up on her legs though. She isn't eating voluntarily, but did swallow the food they are force feeding her. The bad news is that her temperature started dropping. It's 95 degrees now (and normal is 100). Any idea what can cause this? Worrisome is that the vet won't have anyone in the office tomorrow from 1-5:30. He said I could transfer her to the hospital, but I'm worried that it will really stress her out (and the hospital is extremely expensive). Plus dunno when I could return her to him (assuming she survives that long). He did say that his feeling was if she passes, it would be in her sleep and peaceful. He will be around at all times except that brief window tomorrow... but it is concerning that her temperature is starting to drop. That post someone made before is sticking with me. Better a day too soon than an hour too long. On the other hand, just when she is coming out of the fog, showing signs of recognition, and could really appreciate me being there, it feels cruel to suddenly "decide" for her and end the time she has left to enjoy.... if she'd given up she'd be withdrawn. The vet also says he doesn't feel she is suffering. Anyway, I'm rambling and off topic, but if anyone has insight on the the temperature drop and how concerned I should be about leaving her alone for that time tomorrow.... would really help. TIA.
 
I don't like the sound of the temperature drop at all, is he trying to keep her warm with a heating pad or something?

It's good that he doesn't think she is suffering, so I would spend as much time with her now as you can since she sounds like really enjoys that. If she isn't suffering and is still getting enjoyment ie you being there, then maybe she can pass naturally without you taking action (if that's what she is going to do of course, anti jinx )?

The problem with that "better a day too soon than an hour too late" logic is that it involves hindsight or being psychic to know when that time is. So likely if it was me then i might wait too late but I would know she had a good extra day, and maybe only a short period of pain at the end.

Can you be there when the vet isn't? I assume the techs will be around. Or is there a way you can take her home and feed her? Or is she still on iv etc?
 
Hi May,

Well, I can tell you about my Ketchie, whom I have been on a roller coaster with since this past month. I have taken her to the vet's several times, for fluids, and finally asked them to let me bring a bag of them home. But, when they were checking her temperature about two weeks ago, it was about 98.3. Then a few days later it had dropped to 97.3. The vet said when the temperature starts dropping, it usually means their body is shutting down. That really worried me. It was the matter of getting Ketchie to eat, and get fluids into her. I have been giving her Mirtazapine (appetite stimulant) also, every 3 days, which seems to have helped pick up her appetite. I think as her mouth healed from the dental on 12-7-12, she is starting to have less pain while eating.

When I had her at the vet's this post Thursday, to pick up another bag of fluids, Ketchie's temp. had gone to 100.3. So, I felt much better.

I am not sure if this is what is happening with your sweet baby, but if you should bring her home, you need to keep her warm. I have a little heater in Ketchie's room, that is keeping it nice and toasty, and she is now walking out of the room to visit with me in the living room and the dining room. So, I do see improvement, although her days are numbered due to cancer that she has on her outside of her body, and we are not sure if she has anything going on inside either. I know I don't want to put her through anymore than I already have, so I am just doing 'pawspice' homecare, and I sometimes pray that if she passes, that it will be in her sleep. Her twin sister died last year in her sleep, but she was adopted by a friend of mine. She found her under her bed in the morning.

I know what you are going through, and it is really hard to deal with. Emotionally and physically, it really takes a toll on our own health also, let alone our sweet furbabies.

Sending prayers,
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Oh gosh, I googled it. It's end stage. I'm not at the vet's, how I wish I were. I couldn't see her today (the vet was there but he didn't have hours), and yesterday she looked stricken when I left. Her temperature dropped rapidly today, 97 then 95. I'm raelly really scared. I left two messages at the vet's saying that I will go tonight or early tomorrow morning if possible.... that all I want to do is see her, then put her down before she really suffers. That she is more alert today means it is the perfect day for her to be able to enjoy me.

Yes he is keeping her warm as best he can. But I'm so scared she will pass without me, cold and suffering and alone. I hope he checks his messages tonight.....

heartbroken, stress ridden, guilt ridden, and scared out of my mind,

Smokey May's Mommy
 
The problem with that "better a day too soon than an hour too late" logic is that it involves hindsight or being psychic to know when that time is. So likely if it was me then i might wait too late but I would know she had a good extra day, and maybe only a short period of pain at the end.
Click to expand...

I believe that Hope mentioned that because if we allow our cats to suffer more than they should, we may regret that we watched them die a miserable and painful death, when we might have prevented that kind of pain to go on and on. I do not believe it has anything to do with hindsight or being psychic. It is just a matter of loving our cats or furbabies enough, with all of our hearts, to NOT allow them to linger on and on with no hope of recovering.

How many times I have questioned that with my Ketchie right now, and I know I may be soon at the point of saying the end is near, and she will be better to allow her a peaceful death, than letting her linger on and on, hoping she will bounce back to the once young cat I have had all these years. That is just not going to happen. Time for a cat or dog is different than how it is for us.

Our furbabies depend upon us for food, and love and finally to help them cross over to the Rainbow Bridge. Some here may not believe in the Rainbow Bridge, and each of us is different, but it is not really fair to prolong a suffering animal's life for our own sake. We must think of them and let them go in peace.

Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Take a deep breath and try to worry so much about what you saw on google. Remember the last conversation you had with the vet, he sounds like he was concerned but didnt say anything to make you this worried,.. till you read google. It could be a slow decline or she could level out.. See what jean and charcoal went through... Keep hope!

She isn't cold, the vet is keeping her warm and comfortable. He says she isn't suffering. He says he thinks if she does pass it will be in her sleep and peaceful. Let these words comfort you right now and keep hope she will be waiting for you to visit her tomorrow. ((Hugs))
 
Is it possible her temp is low due to the fluids? I probably skipped right past something, but can you explain what you googled and found that it was end stage?
 
I helped my 18 year old Kiddle, whom I'd seen born, cross the bridge because she could no longer keep herself warm. She had lost so much weight, she had no fat for insulation. She'd always slept with me and sat with me. Such a stubborn little torby girl, even the last day, she hopped up on a window seat to look out at birds. Her renal values were bad. She wouldn't let me do fluids. And any antibiotics would have neededto be excreted through the kidneys.

Keeping her alive would have been for me, not her.
 
Thanks Wendy&Tiggy. That was comforting.

I kept her alive because I thought she had a chance to recover. The IV needs time to see if it will work, and her blood measurements were not progressing. She seemed stagnant, but stable, and her energy level improved. It was a decision I agonized over every second of every day. I read many success stories with animals with symptoms similar to mine and I wanted to ensure I was not cutting her off from an opportunity to survive.

I guess from this point on there is nothing more I can do; but I keep crying. Her recent behavior suggested she was improving.... so this latest turn took me by surprise. I promised her mommy will be back... I hope my furry friend waits for me and lets me help her cross, because I want her to have peace. What she wants more in life than anything is me, and I want to give her that, knowing that she was comforted in her hour of need.
 
Dear BJ,

Yes, you know what I meant in what I just wrote about. When our furbabies no longer can sustain a good quality of life, the kindest thing is to let them go. I am afraid that is what is happening to my Ketchie too. She is so thin, and tomorrow I will try to do the fluids, and see how she is eating. But, she is also 17 years old, and was born in my house, like you said you saw your Kiddle born, and yet, you had the courage to let her go, when the time came. Bless your heart.

To May, I hope that your Smokey will be with you for as long as possible, but if she is not able to be with you, if you cannot maintain her fluids, or body temperature, then it may be kinder to hold her and love her and let her fly with the angels. That is only up to you and I hope that you will be able to make that decision if necessary to ease her pain. I really do not know if any of us ever can understand how much our cats are suffering, whether a vet says they are or aren't or we think they are or aren't.

Our cats know how to hide pain so well, and that is why is it so hard to know when to let go.

Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Buff-Puff, to answer your question, if you google end stage renal failure, the symptoms are low body temp, coma, severe depression, and convulsions. The end stages are not said to be pleasant. Yesterday I thought she could recover. Today I thought she could recover. Now I find out it's the end stage. I'm devastated and full of regrets. I only hope that she lasts until tomorrow not feeling any pain, and that she gets to see mommy fulfill her promise of returning and never abandoning her (she lost two mommies before me, and has issues with that, so me being there for her is a huge and painful issue), and that she goes in peace. I love her more than anything in this world, and she feels the same way about me.

Did you read anything about IV causing low body temp? I know that he increased her amount of fluids recently, but he didn't mention this would be a side effect. Regarding body temp, I asked him what that meant and he said he was afraid it could mean her kidneys are getting worse. I just didn't realize the importance of what he said.... if he said end stage failure I'da told him I want to go over and let her pass away in a heartbeat.

PS yse J & C, that's what I want to do, but my cat is at the vet's, and I cannot see her. I didn't find out about any of this until tonight when he called, and he moentioned the body temp but was maybe a bit too gentle and I didn't realize that was serious---because he just finished telling me how much more alert/aware/energetic she was today. After we hung up I googled it, and called back his office number, but I don't know if he will get the messages. All I can do is pray and hope and try not to get hysterical, that she will not suffer, and live to see me. Then she will go peacefully. It's almost like she was waiting to see me.... and when I didn't visit today, she gave up hope. :( I can't give up hope for her. If anyone can send prayers and good wishes please do.
 
Dear May,

Yes, I understand your sweet Smokey is at the vet's, but was just hoping upon hope that maybe you could bring her home, but if she is not able to, then I hope and pray that you will be there for her if she needs to say goodbye. Believe me, we all understand the pain your heart is going through now.

Sending lots of hugs and prayers,
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Yeah, she was not well enough to come home... thanks for your prayers.... my hope and the vet's was that she could also spend as much time at home as possible, but it was not meant to be. I think she will be fine as long as she has me. Her whole life, she didn't care if she went anywhere (except the vet's examining table) as long as I was there. It means the world to give her that wish so we can both have peace and love, and that I know those are her last thoughts before she watches over me from above.
 
I must have overlooked the renal failure. I don't know if the IV fluids would bring the temp down that much, but I thought it might have something to do with it.

My heart goes out to you. I recently lost my Buffy and don't have any answer as to why. But her temp had dropped drastically and I was told she was shutting down. I didn't want her to suffer and now feel I acted too soon and that I could have helped her. But Buffy's blood work was nearly perfect and your sweet baby has renal failure. I'm so sorry. I know how badly you want to bring her home. I'm sure she knows how much you love her.

Prayers for you that you'll get to see your baby and that you'll have clear thoughts as to what you should do.
 
Buff-Puff,

I am really sorry for your recent loss. I was afraid if I put my sweet Smokey out it'd be too soon. Just this last Monday I thought she was fine, just in the recovery process from DKA, slowed by pancreatitis. As far as I knew, her kidney values were 2.... which is only the very beginning of kidney failure. On Tuesday I found out that the situation was more serious, and only at the end of the week did I know she wasn't bouncing back. A drastic temp drop can mean the body is shutting down. You were acting in your cat's best interests. If she had suffered then you would have felt responsible. It' so easy to look back and agonize over everything.... but your furry baby knows you loved her and protected her and were there at the very end for her. You were a great cat mommy.
 
I'm very very sorry for the week you've had and how sick your Smokey has been. It is serious when they cannot regulate their body temp and the vet cannot get it to rise.

But even more serious, and painful, is renal failure and I've been there with my most beloved GA Max. If they are in renal failure and they are going to respond to IV fluids, it usually only takes a couple of days. If she's been on the IV fluids since the 19th and her creat is not down, it's not a good sign, I'm so sorry to say. Usually when they are on IV fluids and responding, the phosphorus will also come down. If phosphorus levels are high, they are usually producing alot of stomach acid and can get ulcers. They can also get ulcers in their mouths. My boy was on IV fluids at a specialty clinic for two days. Even after two days, his creat was still 8 and phosphorus 15. I brought him home but I could tell he was suffering and so I let him go.

The vet told me that in order to make the decision you don't want to make, you have to ask yourself if your kitty can do even three or four of the things that he/she normally does. My Max was not doing any of them.....he was always so bonded to me and he barely seemed to know me. I knew that even if I could nurse him back to some better health, he would never be as he was....and he was larger than life. I did not want to take that away from him and ask him to be less than he wanted to be. So I freed him.

Here is a quality of life assessment that we often give members in Lantus Land to help them decide. I hope it will help you and your sweet baby. QOL Scale

Many prayers for you both.

Eta: I also forgot to ask if she's anemic. While there are treatments for CKD kitties with anemia, it's a tough road to battle. I have a kitty now with CKD and that will probably be a big deciding factor for me because the anemia makes them so much worse.
 
Fluids, unless warmed, definitely drop the temp. I would warm them up before giving them to KiddleKs mom, Emmy (she made it to at least 19 years old).
 
I disagree about the fluids. I've had three renal cats and one was in the clinic for two days on unwarmed IV fluids and his body temp stayed constant. I warm subq fluids also but it's because they are subq and the cooler fluids might cause them to be cold but not to drop the body temp.
 
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