Another new diabetic. Questions on food. Etc.

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burger02us

Member Since 2014
My cat Ruffian is a 13yr old DSH with newly diagnosed diabetes as of this past saturday. She was eating Iams Proactive Indoor/Hairball/ Weight control dry.
Her glucose was 432. The vet recommended ProZinc insulin at 1.5 units twice daily. Also prescribed the Hills M/D diet. She seems to like those (both wet and dry) just fine.
I am interested in additional diet information as I have read that the dry diets are not exactly optimal. Even those from the veterinarian.
Is EVO a good option? High protein, low carb and so forth? Any specific ones? Duck, fish, ?
I did read the article on CatInfo.org by Dr. Lisa A. Pierson, DVM. Still a little confused though!
Also home testing.. I've read a little here on this forum.
Any thoughts? I'm up for any advice. Thank you.
 
Welcome. Yes, low-carb caned is what yo want. No reason for the more expensive M?D which is higher in carbs.
The following includes a list of low-carb canned
viewforum.php?f=28

Most of us here do home test our cats with a human meter, no reason for a pet-specific meter. The strips for those are expensive. Most test before each shot and periodically between shots.
 
Welcome to FDMB. You will find a wealth of information and extremely helpful people here. What is your name?

I really like this link for wet food information.
Click on this: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=115473&p=1215071&hilit=Kidney+high+protein#p1215071. After you click on this, there is another link in the middle of the page that indicates a list from KPassa. Click on that. You can download the spreadsheet and sort any which way you want. I have to look for low phosphate too so I just sort it by brand, carb and then phosphate. Anyway, lots of good information there. Yes, EVO 95% Chicken/Turkey can food is very good. It only has 2% carb but is rather expensive. Merlin really likes EVO. There are a couple of other low carb wet food like Fancy Feasts and Friskies that are a little cheaper.

Yes most of us use human meters like Relion Confirm, Relion Micro, Relion Prime; all can be found at Walmart for about $15. The test strips are anywhere from 8 cents to 18 cents. If you were to buy an AlphaTrak Pet meter that is usually sold at your vet, the test strips are $1 each and the pet meter is very expensive. As you can see by looking at some of our spreadsheets, it would be extremely expensive utilizing a pet meter.

The next step you will want to do is set up a spreadsheet. This is extremely helpful in collecting data. Data is very important so you can spot trends, formulate your insulin dose and generally keeping your kitty safe. There are instructions on this website on how to set up your spreadsheet, signature line and kitty profile.
 
Hi extra sweet Ruffian! Would you introduce your human too? Welcome to FDMB!

We do recommend a low carb canned doodad mentioned earlier but ONLY switch if you are home testing. Food change can drop the BG by 100 or more risking hypo if you are giving insulin too.

Home testing takes some learning... we've taught dozens of people over the internet (including me!) and we'd love to help you. Relion is a good, cheap meter if you're in the US. I think American Diabetes Wholesale sells a similar version called Arkray. I liked my relion since if I needed strips I could go to Walmart any time and get them. The confirm needs less blood I believe. The micro is a bit cheaper but needs more blood. A lot of people start with confirm and later get a micro when they've got testing down. It's your choice...just wanted to go over options.

We recommend a few tests a day. Always before shots to make sure it's safe to shoot. With ProZinc, you want to test, feed, and shoot all in about 15 minutes. Then testing at nadir, or the lowest point in the cycle will tell you how low she goes. That's usually between 5 to 7 hours after a shot. You have to experiment since it's different. A test before bed also gives an idea of her plans for the night.

It's a lot to take in! Ask all the questions you want. We love helping out and want to pay it forward from our newbie days!
 
Once you get your spreadsheet set up or when you look at someone else's signature link, this'll make more sense!

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
 
ReliOn is the WalMart house brand name.
The Confirm and Confirm Micro are identical to the Glucocard 01 or 01 Mini, as both are made by Arkray USA.
 
Wow. What great info, Thanks guys!
My name is Dana (I forgot to introduce myself). I did use to work in the veterinary field so I'm sure I can get the home testing done (watched the Youtube videos). It has been a few years so I'm trying to refresh my memory of diabetes. I dealt with the cats at work but I've never actually had my own diabetic until now.
So..
I'll grab a Relion meter and test strips and lancets. When should I start testing? It hasn't even been a week yet with insulin.

About the food. I'm leaning towards EVO ( I'll have to see if she likes it). But she is currently on the Hills M/D. Should I just get her onto the EVO or wait and test some BG's? She wasn't all that interested in food last night so I skipped the shot. Then in this morning she ate for sure and she got her dose. Seems to be doing fine.
Additionally she has been a free eater most of the time. Small meals throughout the day. Ideas on that?
Again many thanks for your feedback!
 
Hi Dana!

I'd start testing ASAP. It's really the only way to keep your kitty safe since you need to know BG before you shoot. My girl was always in high numbers and one morning, it was around 90 I think. If I hadn't tested, she would surely have hypoed while I was at work. Plus, the sooner you start collecting the data, the sooner we can hopefully spot patterns in her numbers and help get her regulated. :mrgreen:

I'd really advise not changing food til you are testing. I worry about the sudden drop it could cause. It'll be okay to keep feeding that prescription food until you have testing down. It also gives you a little time to make a decision. I never used EVO but heard great things about it!

I advise getting the lancets that are bigger...26 or 28 gauge. They are used for alternate testing sites and are much easier until the ears learn to bleed as they get you a bigger drop of blood. Also, some neosporin helps bead the blood up. And of course, some low carb treats for the kitty! Many of us use freeze dried chicken treats. Mine love them! A treat after every test, successful or not, is necessary. Your kitty may start reminding you it's test time! I also recommend a treat for you! You deserve it!
 
Once you are testing, change the food about 20-25% per day, to avoid upsetting the GI tract and causing vomiting, diarrhea, or inappetance.
 
Attempted a glucose test tonight. She behaved really well but I wasn't able to get enough blood onto the test strip. Didn't want to sour her to the idea so we quit for the night.
Gotta re watch the videos to get the technique down.
Threw up a last night as well. Is pepcid recommended generally?
Of course I'll ask the vet as well.
 
So I told you to ask questions then forgot to answer one. ohmygod_smile

You can free feed. Once you switch to wet food it's fine to leave out. I leave it all day til I get home. None of mine would eat it all at meal time so I just let them nibble. I add water to our wet food since we have UTI issues at my house. You can also give smaller portions throughout the day if you're home or use a feeder. Smaller more frequent meals are actually better for diabetics than just 2 meals a day that are larger. Just try to pick up food 2 hours before morning and evening shots.

I've used 1/4 of a 10 mg Pepcid tablet about 20 min before meals on advice from here AND from my vet before. Helps upset tummies. You can dissolve in a bit of water and use a syringe or put in a pill pocket if she'll eat. Just make sure it's only Pepcid...not Pepcid plus something else.

Good job getting that test in! If you try 3 times and it doesn't work, do walk away and take a break. If you're having a problem getting enough blood, try 2 sticks close together. I've done that. Helps until the ears learn to bleed. Keep it up! It'll be old hat before you know it.
 
Success! Got a blood glucose this morning. 427! Still high. Gave her insulin.
She is not interested in eating though. I worry about giving her the dose even though her sugar is high. Always concerned about her getting hypoglycemic.
????
 
That is why we encourage testing. You can see just how low the insulin takes her.
And, if necessary, intervene with something high carb like Karo Syrup, gravied high carb food, etc.

Giving insulin will let her use the glucose currently in her bloodstream and may actually help her feel better. If the insulin uses enough of the glucose up, it usually prompts some hunger.
 
Hi Dana and sugar princess Ruffian and welcome to the message board. Would you be willing to put some information into your User Control Panel, Profile tab, Edit Signature box and save for us to look at? It's a bunch of little tidbits of data that help us to see some key information at a glance. Something like this, with corrections where needed would be nice to see.

Dana & sugarprincess Ruffian (age 13)
DX date: 5/24/2014
Prozinc w/ Relion which?? meter
eating Hill's M/d dry and wet per vet recommendation
complicating medical conditions such as Hypet-T, subq fluid therapy, CKD, heart disease, etc.
 
Lets see. Things are going well I guess. She's eating better this week.Not vomiting. Has taken to the M/D dry. Still trying to find a wet food that she'll eat readily. Hard to tell sometimes as her sister is a walking Hover and will eat up anything left out.
Attempted a "mini" glucose curve over the weekend. Her ears are still "learning to bleed". But I did get 4 tests done.

10 am BG 421mg/dl. Gave 1.5 units
12pm BG 368 mg/dl
3pm BG 346 mg/dl
5pm BG 421 mg/dl
Stopped testing for the night. Gave her 1.5 units at 10pm.

So I'll call her vet today and give them the info. I do realize this is not a very accurate graph of her sugars but it's a start.
Maybe need to increase her dose? Seeing that it only dropped less than 100? I won't do anything until I hear from the doc of course.

Thanks guys for the help!
 
Congrats on getting tests in! Welcome to the Vampire Club!

Those numbers are pretty high and no, she is not dropping much. It is hard to know what to do when she is still eating higher carb food. (when we switched from dry to wet, our Oliver came down 100 points for the next preshot). 100 points would make a healthy different in your numbers. I would continue to try to get her eating lower carb wet, a little at a time.

What dose did the vet start with? How fast and how often was it increased? We suggest starting with one unit and increasing every few days by .25 or .5. If he increased slowly, then I would think increasing to 1.75 (eyeballing it) would be fine, now that you can monitor. I'd be cautious as you seem to be trying to change her diet and that can make a big difference.
 
The initial dose was/is 1.5 units. There has been no adjustment.
The wet food thing. I've tried to get her to eat wet a few tries over the past few years. Still trying. Found a brand called Soulistic. Seems that she likes it some. Dry food addict!
Also did get her freeze dried chicken for treats. Loves'em.
 
Thanks for the update. We hadn't heard from you in a while and it's nice to know how things are going with Ruffian.

I had a hard core dry food addict myself in my sugardude Wink. I think I used almost all these tips for transitioning dry food addicts to wet food by vet Dr. Lisa Pierson. Patience was key and a gradual changeover helped. It took a month to switch him to mostly wet food, and then I simply took away all the dry food.

If Wink had his druthers, he'd still be a dry food addict. ohmygod_smile But there isn't a speck of dry cat food in the house and hasn't been for more than a year now, so he has no choice but to eat the wet food and seems happy to do that 4 times a day, begging for his meals. :o
 
Good news again. Vet had me increase her dose to 2.5 units twice daily. Took her in for a recheck yesterday she gained a half pound and her sugar was 175. This was +5 hours after her shot. I can't believe that it went down so far. (Last BG was in 400s.)
And she's been eating wet food more consistently and has not vomited since!
Going to to do another curve (per vet) in another week to see how she's doing.
Yay!
 
Yeah! a 175 is much, much better BG reading for Ruffian. She may have even gone lower in the cycle, since many cats have their nadir or lowest reading in the +5 to +7 hour timeframe after the insulin shot when using Lantus. Many cats also are very stressed at the vet and that can raise their BG readings at the vet artificially high, 100 to 180 points.

I hope you are home testing Ruffian to make sure this higher dose is not too much for her.
 
We share our glucose tests with a Google Drive spreadsheet so others may review the numbers and give us feedback. Instructions are here

Once you get your spreadsheet set up or when you look at someone else's signature link, this'll make more sense!

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
 
All meters sold in the US must read within + or - 20% of what a lab would get.

All human meters read approximately 30-40% lower than pet-specific meters. We do not adjust the readings from human meters; we ask you to note in you signature what meter you are using.

We have reference values for human meters, so that is not an issue in most cases. Many of us in the US like the WalMart ReliOn Confirm, Confirm Micro, or Prime meters. If you're not a fan of WalMart, you can to our shopping partner Americal Diabetes Wholesale and purchase the Arkray Glucocard 01 or 01 Mini which are the unbranded version of the Confirm models made by Arkray USA.

Comparing a human glucometer to a pet-specific glucometer is like reading temperature in Celsius vs Fahrenheit. Both are correct. You just need to know the reference ranges to interpret what the numbers mean.

[Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *​
Examples of using the chart:

Ex. You are a new insulin user and you test your cat before giving insulin. The test is 300. It probably is safe to give insulin.

Ex. You are an established user of Lantus, following the Tight Regulation protocol. You've tested around +5 to +7 to spot the nadir. It is 200 mg/dL. You probably need to increase the dose, following the instructions for the protocol.

Ex. Your cat is acting funny. The eyes are a bit dilated. You are concerned and test the glucose. The number is 35 mg/dL. ACK! The cat may be in a hypoglycemic state. You quickly follow the HYPO protocol linked in the glucose reference values chart. (which we really, really, suggest you print out and post on your refrigerator.)
 
Finally, see my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for additionaly assessments you can make to evaluate your cat. In particular, note info on urine ketone testing and dehydrations checks.
 
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