Another new diabetic mom in Los Angeles

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Weather Girl

Weather Girl

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So, just got the diagnosis this morning, though we were prepared for it after finding out our cat had a blood glucose reading of 487 on Saturday. No real lethargy issues or anything, just LOTS of pee. In front of the litter box. On the bath mat. Next to the bath mat. On our bed. On the guest bed. This list goes on and on! I feel so bad we didn't catch it sooner, but from what I've read from all of you it is what it is- it's what we do now that counts.

I'm not a huge fan of our vet- she didn't really seem to have a sense of urgency with the issue. She had my husband pick up an rx for Lantus, starting at 1 unit bid. Said to get the meds whenever we could and start. Didn't say when. Didn't mention, until I asked, that we might want to be home to monitor her behavior and/or glucose levels when starting out the meds. And seriously, if I didn't ask her about it (from having read here), wouldn't have even mentioned starting a glucose curve or anything. Of course, she said she'd look at it if we faxed it to her, but that was it. The only follow up she mentioned was to make sure she doesn't loose or gain weight.

So yeah, not super excited there. To make matters worse, my husband and I have a vacation planned- leaving Thursday night. It's a conference that really can't be canceled. Our vet won't do the boarding, because someone wouldn't be there 24/7. The VCA hospital said it's be around $100/day if not more. Our 10-day trip costing well over $1K~ obviously not something we can do.

So, basically my questions are:
1. Anyone in the LA area have boarding advice? We'd need something/one that would be able to handle a new diagnosis, since she'll be very new to the meds and the whole situation (as we are....)
2. Anyone know approx how much the Lantus should run us, and where the best/cheapest place to pick them up may be? She gave the option of pens or a bottle.

Thank you all so much in advance... very overwhelmed!
 
Re: Another new diabetic mom

hi there and welcome

LA as in Los Angeles? if so, we've got several gals and at least one or two guys up that way that might be able to help as far as what to do about the trip. I'm down in Orange County myself so not of much help there.

Let me put out some feelers and point these people here to this thread
 
Re: Another new diabetic mom

I'm sorry about the diagnosis, but the good news is that diabetes is so, so treatable. Even better, quite a few cats go into remission.

It sounds like you've done lots of reading, which is great. Make sure you read about diet - diabetics should only eat high-protein wet food. Prescription food is not necessary.

Many vets don't know much about treating. However, at least she wanted to prescribe Lantus, which is the best insulin for newly diagnosed kitties. You can get dosing help on the Lantus forum (once you learn how to hometest and create a spreadsheet). Instructions for the spreadsheet are in the Tech Forum.

You want to get the Lantus pens or cartridges, NOT the vial. Lantus lasts about a month once you pierce the seal, so you want the smaller quantities in case you need to toss it at the end of the month. The cheapest way to get it is to order from Canada; however, that might take a couple of weeks. I bought my last set from Costco and I think it was $175. Last time I checked, Walmart was the most expensive at $236.

If you change the title of your post to include "LA", you might be able to find someone nearby that would keep her for the weekend. With her being so newly diagnosed, that would probably be the best solution.
 
Weather Girl said:
$175 for a month? Eeek! But, it is what it is. Wow.
Click to expand...

Sorry! No, $175 for 5 months (if you get the pens or cartridges, you will get 5, 3 ml each).
 
hey there, one of the gals in your area that I messaged isn't familiar with using this new board just yet (we just switched over a few months ago) so she asked me if I knew where in LA you are? you can post it here (not street address though, just like Burbank, Hollywood, etc....) or if you'd prefer, you can click "pm" in my reply here and tell me privately. (pm is private message, the board's version of email basically)
 
Hi there. I am just checking in quickly from work....

Where in LA are you? I am in the South Bay and work in Beverly Hills.

I could put some feelers out. Maybe there is a vet tech that can come over to your house and give shots? I have a friend who lives in the Hollywood Hills who has someone who helped him with shots, etc when he was away for work.

I may not get to check back in til tonight.
 
Cindy + Mousie said:
hey there, one of the gals in your area that I messaged isn't familiar with using this new board just yet (we just switched over a few months ago) so she asked me if I knew where in LA you are? you can post it here (not street address though, just like Burbank, Hollywood, etc....) or if you'd prefer, you can click "pm" in my reply here and tell me privately. (pm is private message, the board's version of email basically)
Click to expand...

I'm in the San Fernando Valley... near Woodland Hills. I'm hoping for a place for her to stay. With being so new to the meds and everything, I'm pretty terrified of an overdose or underdose... which I know can have some serious repercussions. Also, not sure about starting her on meds and NOT having a glucose curve for those first couple weeks.


Also... we're planning on starting her on meds when we get home from work tonight. How careful should we be about keeping an eye on her all night? IE: Should we take shifts between the two of us to make sure all is ok?
 
while the manufacturer label on lantus says it lasts for 28 days, the reality if you handle it right, you can get much longer use out of it.

By handling it right - no shaking, rolling or tossing - keep in fridge at all times - opened and unopened lantus. come to the lantus forum and read the starred information on top for more details.

In NJ, it cost approximately 180-200$ for 5 pens and $89 for the vial. While the cost for vial sounds more reasonable, the reality is you may have more waste. Hence why the pens are recommended.

Also, you need to get U100 insulin syringes - get them with 1/2 unit markings - don't know if you need a script - in NJ you do. May want to get the vet to call that in for you, just in case.
 
Hi,
The one that doesn't know how to post is me :) I'm in Sherman Oaks.

The cheapest place to get Lantus is Costco. You can call the pharmacy there and ask for the price. You don't have to be a member for prescriptions.

I don't know where you can board a cat. The cat obviously needs to get on insulin right away. Do you have a friend or neighbor that can come and shoot the cat twice a day? It would be better to leave the cat at home. The stress of being boarded is way to much :)

I'd just go with 1 unit twice a day while you're gone.

My cat Bert has been diabetic for almost 8 years. It gets easier, I promise.

Felice and Bert ^..^
 
Hey there and welcome. Sorry to hear about the Dx.

I have a couple pet sitter connections in the West LA area - my favorite vet tech and one a very experienced and trusted pet sitter who is 100% confident and familiar with DM. I have no idea if they would go up to the valley [keeping in mind they would have to come at least twice per day]. I doubt it but I could ask if you do not end up with any other options. Please PM me if you want me to work on that for you. I've also put out some feelers to see if I might be able to get any pet sitter connection in that area for you. I should hear back within a couple days.

I have no personal experience with Lantus. It's important to get the insulin rolling though and something, even a lower dose, is better than nothing. If you can you want to find a pet sitter and do not board the cat unless there are absolutely no other options.

Aren't there online resources for finding pet sitters?

If you need or feel you could benefit from having someone come and give you a testing and shooting tutorial please let me know and I'd be happy to come get you up to speed. I'm sure there are others here too that would be happy to come get you up to speed.

The next most important thing is to get that diet changed ASAP. Pint out Janet & Binky's food charts and take with you to the pet store this afternoon/evening and get wet food only that is 9% or below in carbs as %Kcal on this list:
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html

At least a minimal dose and the food change should really help during your little emergency here.

Get that food changed tonight.
 

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Thank you all so very much for the help so far!!! This is a pretty amazing community here....

So we're starting the Lantus tonight. My husband's a dr so we'll see how well his pediatrics skills translate to the feline world :) I'll be with Vesta tomorrow (boss is letting me take her to work with me to monitor her!) and he'll be home with her Wednesday. We're hoping to get a good curve going before we leave Thursday night. Food-wise, we started feeding her some prescription diet diabetes dry food from the vet saturday when they did the "she might be diabetic" thing. Or rather, half that and half her old food to switch over a little easier. Traditionally with wet food, she'll scarf it then barf it, but maybe we'll try smaller portions more often to get her accustomed to it. She has a "civvie" sister who'll love this switch (can't keep them on different foods)!

The big question is: Will having someone come by 2x/day to give her the shots really be ok this early in the process? I'm extremely nervous about having her alone for so much of the day. Plus, will she hide and be difficult when a stranger comes over to give her the shots anyways? That's why I was thinking a boarding facility would be easier. Lastly, if she's still peeing on stuff, coming home after 10 days of that would be horrible. We don't really have a friend who could make that kind of time commitment, so it'd have to be someone for hire. Which is fine, just not that >$100 estimate from the West LA VCA.

Finally, the vet is Dr Chang in Encino. She's great as long as you're healthy... Maybe a little judgy, and I think a tad on the high side cost-wise with things. I'm not saying she's a bad vet at all, just not quite fantastic with this situation.
 
Weather Girl said:
Cindy + Mousie said:
hey there, one of the gals in your area that I messaged isn't familiar with using this new board just yet (we just switched over a few months ago) so she asked me if I knew where in LA you are? you can post it here (not street address though, just like Burbank, Hollywood, etc....) or if you'd prefer, you can click "pm" in my reply here and tell me privately. (pm is private message, the board's version of email basically)
Click to expand...

I'm in the San Fernando Valley... near Woodland Hills. I'm hoping for a place for her to stay. With being so new to the meds and everything, I'm pretty terrified of an overdose or underdose... which I know can have some serious repercussions. Also, not sure about starting her on meds and NOT having a glucose curve for those first couple weeks.


Also... we're planning on starting her on meds when we get home from work tonight. How careful should we be about keeping an eye on her all night? IE: Should we take shifts between the two of us to make sure all is ok?
Click to expand...

Weather Girl,

I just got a recommendation from a friend of mine in Porter Ranch. Dr. Mital at 818-885-8323 - his office boards cats. The office closes at 6:00pm but there is someone there 24 hours to keep an eye on the animals. The address is: 8615 Lindley Ave, Northridge, CA - not too far from Woodland Hills. Try giving them a call and see what you think.
 
Weather Girl said:
Food-wise, we started feeding her some prescription diet diabetes dry food from the vet saturday when they did the "she might be diabetic" thing.
Click to expand...
Ditch the dry immediately! Dry food and diabetes [even the Rx stuff] are incompatible. Purina DM wet food is ok but the Hills MD is not. And prescription diet is not needed and often have very average ingredients. You can feed better commercial food that is 100% OK for diabetes. So get that table I sent you printed out and get to the store tonight and get that food! :smile:

Weather Girl said:
The big question is: Will having someone come by 2x/day to give her the shots really be ok this early in the process? I'm extremely nervous about having her alone for so much of the day. Plus, will she hide and be difficult when a stranger comes over to give her the shots anyways?
Click to expand...
Your cat being in it's own environment with a pet sitter that you know will come on a 12/12 is way better IMHO than boarding - even at this stage. Maybe others would disagree? No vet will give the shots and do the care to your expectations. And the cat will be out of it's environment. It's not like I've seen a million beans here board their kitties, but I've never seen one be please with the results.

As for hiding - can't you just take all the hiding places away? Hiding is very anti-social anyway. :smile: Like the beds, you just put stuff under them - pillows etc. So hiding should not be a problem, and once you break them of the habit then they tend to stay broken of it.

As for the peeing, hopefully if you get the diet changed ASAP and a little insulin going the peeing might be able to get under control before you leave. But the food will be key in this - so the sooner you get it going the sooner the peeing might get under control.

Maybe one of the vet techs from the recommendation above can come to your place?
 
Every cat's different, but remember that stress can really raise blood sugar levels significantly (stress releases epinephrine and cortisol, which are both designed to release extra blood sugar!)

So:

1) Shots are in general NOT stressful for cats (just for humans). Cats hardly notice them
2) Having to stay with someone else or board in a cage IS stressful. Having someone come over twice a day to feed and pet them (and inject insulin) is not stressful by comparison, it's nice.

My experience says getting someone bright and confident to pop by, clean the litterbox, feed, pet, brush, and inject twice a day is your best bet, and should be possible for $20 a day, much less than the $100 a day at the stressful vet. I have been able to do it several times, with a different person each time, and they have all done fine.
 
Steve & Jock said:
and should be possible for $20 a day
Click to expand...
My experience in this 'hood is about $20/visit and that's not a test and shoot visit. So I would budget $40/day if not a little more. If you have cheaper resources in our 'hood you trust I'm all ears. :smile:
 
I can understand the hiding problem.

My hubby and I do not have anyone familiar enough with our cats to come over and give shots / pills. 3 of my cats would hide from strangers and one would be all "in their face" and slashing ankles or anything else in reach. Not sure what Rusty's reaction will be -- he will probably be a happy medium (he has lived with us for 3 weeks now).

For a newly diagnosed diabetic who doesn't know the routine yet -- boarding with experienced people might be a good option.

Yes, it would be stressful, but so would being chased around the house by a stranger intent on medicating or else.

You've at least got more options to consider now.

My hubby and I may be unusual in this, but since we've had diabetic cats, one of us has ALWAYS been home with the kitties. (separate travels and/or local vacations). Norton was our first diabetic cat -- so this dates from his diagnosis in June 2006.
 
Welcome to the board.

There is a subsection of this board, called the Lantus Insulin Support Group, which is dedicated to Lantus users ( viewforum.php?f=9 ). Please read the stickies located at the top of that board to get a better understanding of how Lantus works in cats, the proper storage and handling, and so forth. Lantus can take some time to see a response in the early days, so it's important that you have realistic expectations. The stickies will help give you a "leg up" on the learning curve.

It's also important to understand the impact that a high-protein, low-carb diet can have on cats' blood glucose levels. Cats are obligate carnivores and aren't designed to eat carbs (see http://www.catinfo.org ). Simply switching food can dramatically lower BG levels and the associated exogenous insulin requirements.

Starting at 1u of Lantus BID is a reasonable dose. As I said earlier, don't expect to see immediate results . . . it takes time for the Lantus to build up in the system and you need to understand the "storage shed" concept, etc. In other words, don't expect to adjust dose by starting Lantus one day and running a curve a day or two later ... it just doesn't work that way in cats. Again, read the stickies and wrap your head around the content.

Unfortunately I can't help you with the boarding issues. Cats don't typically like change so it's usually best to leave them at home and have someone stop by to care for them; however, if you're more comfortable with 24-hour monitoring given the circumstances, that's reasonable too. But as others have stated, it's important to be aware that stress can artificially inflate BG levels (think "white coat effect") and that cats can be masters at hiding stress. My Chip purrs at the vet clinic but even when he was well-regulated at BGs of less than 150 around the clock, a visit to the vet spiked his BG to over 400. It was hard to believe, but he is really sensitive to both stress and carbs. Again, just understand that this can happen and don't be misled to make dosing decisions based on values you might see in such circumstances.

Finally, has your cat been given steroids recently? Steroids are known to induce diabetes (often transient) in cats. It's an important variable to consider if steroid use is in your cat's history.

Good luck and please keep us posted as to how you're doing.
 
Are you KIDDING me?

So, we were all set to start tonight... Picked up the lantus cartridges from the pharmacy along with the needles. Did Vesta's first home glucose test... Super easy! She was a total trooper. BG came in at 318, so lower than at the vet but definitely still high and all.

Problem- Noone gave us the Opticlik pen that you need to actually dispense the darned medicine!!!! So we're sitting here trying to figure out how to use the whole thing, on the phone with totally clueless pharmacists, and with a vet who isn't around until 8am. The emergency vet in our area doesn't have the dispensary pen, so we're really SOL until tomorrow. Which, we're still SOL, as the hubs and I both work before the vet opens and come home after she closes.

I seriously just want to scream right now. The testing went so easily and we had all this hope that it was going to go well... And now back to the whole angry irritated scared and frustrated emotions. Had to vent here. So frustrated.
 
You don't want/need to use the Opticlik pen.

Simply insert the needle of your insulin syringe directly into the rubber stopper on the end of the cartridge (just as you would if you were drawing from a vial rather than a cartridge).

None of us use the Opticlik ... just draw directly into the insulin syringe and then give the cat the injection as usual. You'll want 3/10 cc U-100 insulin syringes with half unit markings.

Edited to add: see photos here -- viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151
 
Thanks for the advice... definitely feeling better, just seriously annoyed that the pharmacist had NO clue what was going on with the meds and my vet didn't explain at ALL how to get this done.

So, we didn't start tonight... I'll be giving Vesta her first dose in the am. At least my boss is letting me take her to work with me so I can monitor her and glucose test through the day.

Seriously everyone, THANKS AGAIN! And if you know anyone in the San Fernando Valley (srn CA) that wants to earn some bucks testing and giving shots in the next couple weeks, PM me!
 
Hi Again,

How often do you take your cat to work with you? If the answer is never then don't expect to get low numbers or even decent numbers.
Remember, your cat is more comfortable and calm at home in the environment they are used to. Just putting a cat in a carrier and then into the car can raise their blood glucose. You saw what your cats numbers were at the vet. Notice how much lower they are at home. You want to keep the cat stress free.

Felice and Bert ^..^ in Sherman Oaks :)
 
This is my first "take your feline to work" day, so yeah, I'm pretty sure the #s will be a bit off, especially considering this is her first day of shots. The thought process was more to be able to observe any adverse reactions over getting good readings.

She's ok so far- her AMPS was 318 at 550am, and I'm doing the first at-work test in a half hour or so.
 
We installed cat doors to allow our Bonnie to have the run of a room and an enclosed porch for when we travel and someone comes to care for her. Can you designate an area in your home? A room she is most comfortable with.
We also went to Home Depot and got a cement mixing pan - it is like a HUGE cat litter box. I told them it was for my cat - and he said, "jeeze - do you have a pet lion" !! I smiled, "yes- of course" !!
If they are "home" with everything they need - even in a smaller area - they feel more at ease. Your smells to calm them. You can even put a shirt you've worm with your smells in their beds.
All our best !!
 
ps -
- don't let them see you pack... I'm serious - .
If Bonnie sees me stacking suit cases by the front door... she shows signs of "worry" . I try to pack the bulk of it all the night before in the car.
Hugs from us ~

(oops.. they've already gone... [red face] ) Next trip !
I hope all worked out okay for you and yours !!
I hope this helps anyone next time they travel ~~~
 
Hi weather girl,

Wanted to let you know I'm in LA too - the Laurel Canyon area. Quincy was on lantus for about 7 months, until he went OTJ a month ago. I don't have recommendations for pet sitters/boarding, though. I ended up avoiding travel or traveling only when my husband could cover for me. I am really glad Quincy went OTJ when he did because I'm on the brink of a lot of work travel and will be needing to use my regular pet sitter more. It's hard to find people to do the testing part, which is indeed critical at the outset.

I ordered my Lantus from a Canadian pharmacy and paid $109 (with shipping) for 5 3ml cartridges from this site:

http://www.canadadrugsonline.com/DrugMoreInfo5636.aspx

Looks like the price went up, but still much cheaper than local options. Here's another site.

http://www.medisave.ca/DrugMoreInfo5636.aspx

I also order test strips and syringes online from Health Warehouse and Hock's respectively. Ordering everything online brought down the cost of Quincy's care considerably - plus meant I didn't have to run around on top of all the testing and extra work at home.

Good luck!
 
Re: Another new diabetic mom

Boo said:
I'm sorry about the diagnosis, but the good news is that diabetes is so, so treatable. Even better, quite a few cats go into remission.

It sounds like you've done lots of reading, which is great. Make sure you read about diet - diabetics should only eat high-protein wet food. Prescription food is not necessary.

Many vets don't know much about treating. However, at least she wanted to prescribe Lantus, which is the best insulin for newly diagnosed kitties. You can get dosing help on the Lantus forum (once you learn how to hometest and create a spreadsheet). Instructions for the spreadsheet are in the Tech Forum.

You want to get the Lantus pens or cartridges, NOT the vial. Lantus lasts about a month once you pierce the seal, so you want the smaller quantities in case you need to toss it at the end of the month. The cheapest way to get it is to order from Canada; however, that might take a couple of weeks. I bought my last set from Costco and I think it was $175. Last time I checked, Walmart was the most expensive at $236.

If you change the title of your post to include "LA", you might be able to find someone nearby that would keep her for the weekend. With her being so newly diagnosed, that would probably be the best solution.
Click to expand...

Sorry to jump in - can you explain a little more about the pens? Can I use the same needles with the pen cartridges? I like my current syringes because they're so tiny she doesn't even seem to notice when I give the shot. My vet said I can keep the Lantus longer as long as it's refrigerated, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. If I called my vet and told her I wanted "Lantus pens" would she know what I meant?
 
Regarding use of the pen: The end of the pens (after you remove the cap) have a rubber stopper just like the insulin vials have. You just invert the pen, like the vial, and insert a regular insulin syringe and draw out the required dose. Try not inject excess insulin back into the pen and to inject air into the pen. Doing so may shorten the life of the insulin.
 
Re: Another new diabetic mom

sapling said:
If I called my vet and told her I wanted "Lantus pens" would she know what I meant?
Click to expand...

Lantus Solostar pens, 5 x 3ml

or Lantus cartridge, 5 x 3ml

Just NOT the 10ml vial.
 
Regarding the disposable pens or cartridges, you want what is less expensive. Which is less expensive tends to vary where you buy it. For me the cartridges are less expensive. However, they are not stocked so it takes a couple of days to get them.
 
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