Angel's bg fluctuating..pls see spreadsheet

Status
Not open for further replies.
SweetAngel

SweetAngel

Member Since 2014
so yesterday Angel's night pre shot bg seemed really high despite him starting on the low carb food. (thanks, Deb, for responding). Please take a look at his spreadsheet to see what's happened now!!!

I made sure the only thing he could graze on last night (if at all) was the Lily's kitchen which on the list claims to be 0% carbs. Had probs getting to sleep and did not wake up to test him mid cycle, then gave him some purina dm at 10.20-10.30. Tested him at 11.20 (whilst he was eating a handful of Hills) and the reading said 7.2 uk, did another test to confirm. My branch of vets is closed until 1pm so I rang their hospital. At first they were like 'oh, dose him and keep an eye on him' so I insisted on speaking to a vet and said I was not happy to dose him with a reading under 11, and she said that I was right, and to test again in an hour and ring back with the results. I'm beating myself up now for not putting the alarm on to test mid cycle, could it be somogyi (sp) effect? He seems absolutely fine.

My regular vets will be open when I've done his next test, so I will call them, but to be honest I'd rather check here as well what to do if it's still low. But is what's happening now normal? Could he by some miracle be going into remission already?

Confused xxx
 
Re: NOW pre shot BG very low..need more advice

Hi no advice except wanted to Send you tons of healing green light for a steady ride to the yellow road next ..... ~O) :YMSIGH: Your doing a great job!!! Kath
 
Re: NOW pre shot BG very low..need more advice

When you change from dry to low carb wet, this will happen and it is good, since it will give your cat a chance to get of the juice.
You need to reduce the dose a lot, kind of like starting over. But if you a still feeding just a little bit ofdry, it will be very difficult to predict when numbers will be high/low. Cut out all the dry, reduce the insulin and test often in the beginning. It will take a fewdays befor all the dry is out of the system.

For now, dont shoot until next cycle, you dont have enough data to know how low your cat will go and you are in the middle of a foodchange.
 
Re: NOW pre shot BG very low..need more advice

Aha, a 7.2(130) preshot. That's interesting, isn't it?
And it's just as well you tested before giving insulin, Cassandra. Well done!

It could very well be that Angel's pancreas is producing more insulin of it's own. :smile:
It looked like this might be the case back on 18th June when you got a +8 of 5.1(92), but it seemed possible then that it may have been a 'one off'. However this 7.2 preshot looks like further evidence that Angel's pancreas is waking up. And you may have got this nice number this morning because of only feeding him the low carb Lily's during the night. (It's probable that the Hill's will push his BG up now).

It's too early to tell whether Angel will go into remission, but these numbers are certainly encouraging.

Are you weaning Angel off the dry? It would be interesting to see how he does on just the low carb.... nailbite_smile

Eliz
 
Re: NOW pre shot BG very low..need more advice

Elizabeth, I was keeping my fingers crossed you would be online!!! Thanks to you, Charlotte and Kath.

I'm only giving him the Hill's dry now when I test him, he thinks it's a treat now he's not really supposed to have it. (before, he was just the same over wet food!!!) I've given him some more Purina wet, it's over an hour since I tested him but think I'll give it a little longer so it's more like 2, I don't want him to be freaked out by the testing, plus I need to relax for a bit coz I've been sitting here researching and my head's about to explode.

I'll post again when I've tested and spoken to the vet, but thank you all so much for responding xx
 
Re: NOW pre shot BG very low..need more advice

You are doing a great job. I agree with Elizabeth that you may have some pancreatic action going on. If you have to skip the shot, don't worry about it. The next reading probably will be higher than expected, but that is normal. For newbies, we usually recommend that you do not give insulin if the BG levels are under 200, which is 11.1 on your meter. It is safer to skip a dose than give insulin when the BG levels are too low.

One suggestion is to start changing Angel's treat to something with lower carbs, like freeze dried chicken. You would be surprised how much even just a few pieces of dry food can raise the BG levels.
 
Re: NOW pre shot BG very low..need more advice

Thanks Lisa,
I'll try that with the treats. presumably I defrost the freeze dried chicken first?
I tested him 15 mins ago and he was up to 12.7 (229), the vet said to give him half a dose, keep an eye on him, and I said should I test him in 4 hours and they said yes. Angel not impressed with being tested so many times, as he moved when I was trying to give him his shot and I stuck myself with the syringe. Luckily didn't get any insulin and only bled for a few seconds, but I'm sure he was laughing!!! He'll be laughing again when I have to set the alarm tonight to feed him at 1.30am and test/shoot him at 2am!!!
xx
 
Re: NOW pre shot BG very low..need more advice

SweetAngel said:
...I stuck myself with the syringe. Luckily didn't get any insulin and only bled for a few seconds, but I'm sure he was laughing!!! He'll be laughing again when I have to set the alarm tonight to feed him at 1.30am and test/shoot him at 2am!!!
xx
Click to expand...

Ouch!!! :roll:

You probably don't need to wait until 2am to give the next shot, Cassandra.
Caninsulin is an 'in and out' insulin and usually has a fairly short duration, so it is usually possible to give shots at less than 12 hourly intervals. (Some folks actually shoot Caninsulin/Vetsulin 8 hourly.)
You're also giving a reduced dose on this shot, and that might reduce the duration (though not necessarily). You are now a skilled hometester, so you can be guided by the blood glucose numbers! ;-)

Oh, have I understood you correctly that you're feeding Angel half an hour before the preshot test? If so then that may be inflating his preshot test result (sorry if I've misunderstood you)).

I can send you some of Bertie's freeze dried chicken treats to try out on Angel if you wish? (And no, they're not frozen, they're freeze-dried like coffee granules). Just PM me your address if you'd like some!
Alternative low carb treats include little pieces of cooked chicken or ham; and I think some folks give tiny pieces of cheese or a little low fat yogurt.

Eliz
 
Re: NOW pre shot BG very low..need more advice

We have a Vetsulin/Caninsulin guide here that may help you out, especially the note about test, feed, and shoot within 30 minutes.

Eating takes roughly 20-30 minutes to impact the glucose level, so you want the insulin to start kicking in around the same time. The Vetsulin onset is within roughly 60 minutes. Ideally, if you can time the onset of both to coincide, the glucose and insulin will be matching up in proportion and helping the glucose level to be more stable.
 
Re: NOW pre shot BG very low..need more advice

Thanks, I am such an idiot. That is what happens when I hyperfocus, I did so much research, remembered everything right apart from test/feed/shoot. For some reason I got it into my head that it was feed/test/shoot to make sure he had enough glucose in.

Well, he's just tested at 6.8 (122) just over 4 hours of getting his HALF dose of caninsulin. Thank god for home testing. Am hoping and praying this is all down to the low carb food. He's such a good boy.

Elizabeth, I think you are a mind reader, I was going to ask about giving him a shot earlier if his blood levels are ok. So sweet of you to offer to let Angel try that freeze dried chicken, will pm you about that.

Once I've weaned him off the Hills, would it be alright to mix it in with the girls dry? They are on the Hills senior, but after reading everything I am giving them more wet, Lili already has at least a small can a day with her meds. Will post an update when I've tested my poor little man. Bless him, 3 tests within 2 hours and now he gets another. I'm running out of ear, and it's hit and miss which bit bleeds enough, if at all.

When I have the time I'm thinking of starting a blog for Angel, I want to do it whilst I'm new to all this so I can remember how I felt from diagnosis and all the worries I have, so that people who've just had a diagnosis or are just starting home testing know some of the feelings and experiences they are likely to have. I know without this board I would have been lost.

Think my little man wants a cuddle (after I've just drawn blood from him too, the sweetheart)



xx
 
Re: NOW pre shot BG very low..need more advice

Just after 6pm uk time, 4 hours after half a dose of caninsulin I was so relieved, Angel's bg was 6.8 / 122.
just 6 hours later, and it was the highest reading I've got so far, 25.1 / 452. In those 6 hours he's only had access to normal amounts of food, the Purina wet dm and Smila, which is about 2.2 carb. I've given him his full dose of caninsulin tonight, but I'm worried the swing in blood sugar is not good for him.

I'm going to set the alarm for 4.30 am and test him, poor Angel.

xx
 
For as long as you use caninsulin you will have the big svings. I used it for my cathe first time she needed insulin and it was fast drop and then high rise. This time i use Levemir (lantus is pretty much the same) and it is so much better. Numbers slowly dropping and slowly rising. See if you can get your vet to give you levemir or lantus and read about it ind the insulingroups.
 
thanks Charlotte. Strangely enough, I had a dream last night that I stormed into my vet and demanded PZI.

Angel is due to be assessed for a trial on 14th July and if his health is otherwise ok he'll be given either Lantus or PZI, so I'm not sure if the vet will change him but worth asking. I'll email them today with a link to Angel's spreadsheet. Tested him in the night and today, in the night he was 12.1(220) this morning he was 10.7 (293) so too low to shoot. So I guess it's test again in 2 hours (he's going to love me!) and go from there.

Thanks again x
 
Hi Cassandra,

Actually, it looks to me like Angel had a good day yesterday.
First off, he had a low preshot number; too low to shoot. And because the Caninsulin will have been long gone from his system it would seem that he managed to maintain those lower numbers himself. That's excellent news.
Secondly, when his blood glucose rose you gave him that reduced dose(half the usual dose). But even though it was a reduced dose Angel's blood glucose still dropped very nicely.
OK, his next preshot number was high. Don't worry about that. His little pancreas had a very nice run before it got tired. And the good numbers he had should help his body to heal further. :smile:

Eliz
 
thanks, so it's got to be positive he was too low to shoot today as well?

It was nearly 12 hours after his full dose and he'd gone lower then than he was at 5 hours after.

I'll test him again in 1/2 hour, will be 2 hours since his last test, and depending on the results I'll either give him full, reduced or no dose.
xx
update, he was 15.5/ 279 so I gave him 2 units instead of 3 and will test again in 4 hours
 
SweetAngel said:
...update, he was 15.5/ 279 so I gave him 2 units instead of 3 and will test again in 4 hours
Click to expand...

That's looking good, Cassandra.
If Angel will let you test him at around +2 that may give you an indication of how 'active' the cycle is likely to be (ie, how much of an response to the insulin you may expect).

You're doing great!

Eliz
 
well I just tried to test him, he was so good, purred away, but for some reason not getting a good blood sample again. His ears are always lovely and warm, I'm trying both ears, different spots.

At least I'm not stressed about it like I was the other day.

I think I'll have to put vaseline on his ears as the blood seems to be soaking in quicker too. I've got through nearly a container of 50 test strips in less than a week with error messages and too small samples, poor Angel. I also threw the container of 10 away as I'd left the top open and assumed they were spoilt!!!

I don't want to stress him out coz I've tried about 10 times (only 3 blood spots though) so maybe I'll wait another hour eg test around 3hrs 15 mins and again at 5 hrs 15, as long as I get a good sample.

You are so encouraging, Angel is just the sweetest boy and usually makes it as easy as it can be.

xx
 
(quoting myself here, as I just wrote about testing issues)

When you absolutely must.get.blood, aim for the vein. It may bleed profusely, which is why we don't normally use it. Be prepared to blot firmly to help it stop bleeding and avoid bruising.

Also, with clean hands, you can scoop the blood droplet on your fingernail to test, while you blot.
 
oh, just read that post too!!!

Thanks BJM. I do try to aim for the vein but my aim is obviously off!!! And I tried your fingernail suggestion once as I'd read it in another of your posts and it worked perfectly, so thanks for that too. Will just have to make sure I don't wear blood red nailpolish too often. I'm going to watch some videos of ear testing and see if I can get it right...maybe I will try with the alternative site testing tip too.

Keeping my fingers crossed for Mama Cat and the kittens x
 
Are you free handing or using a lancet pen? If the latter, try taking off the cap if present, or free handing.

To free hand, just sort of roll your hand to prick the ear.
 
I'm using a pen but too worried about hurting him to take cap off at the moment.
When I collect him (hopefully tomorrow) I'll get the vet to show me exactly where to test.
x
 
Practice on an apple and yourself. You'll see exactly what it feels like to you. Also, the cat's ear has fewer nerves than our own skin.
 
thanks for the tip BJM, I've got a couple of ex boyfriends I wouldn't mind practising the freehanding on!!!

I've already jabbed myself with a syringe by accident so the lancet should be nothing. Lucky I didn't get a dose of caninsulin or I'd be meowing and stealing Angel's food, and as for the litter tray....

Hopefully will get my sweetie back tonight unless I can nag the vets into a free curve,

xx
 
'Nother tip: use something like Neosporin ointment (not creme) with pain relief.
Apply a small dab to the ear a minute or so before testing.
Wipe off thoroughly.
Test.
Apply firm pressure to the pricked area to reduce bruising and stop bleeding (especially important if you hit a gusher!)
Give a low carb treat or toy or grooming that the cat really enjoys.

The ointment helps the blood bead up for the sample and improves healing.
 
hi BJM,

Unfortunately can't get neosporin here in UK. (or anything similar without a dr's prescription) I'll try vaseline, at least it should help the blood bead. He doesn't tend to be much of a bleeder, but I usually press with cotton wool anyway. I usually shove his dear little face in some wet food (not literally, he loves his food) and scratch the base of his spine and his little bottom goes up in the air. (you can tell I'm missing him I'm going gushy!!) I'm lucky he likes his ears massaged too.

Well...going to call vets in a few minutes...
 
Good morning just wanted to send (((Angel))) out tons of prayers and healing green vibes today ....hope she is doing great ...
I don`t see any updates ~O) :smile: Kath
 
Thank you both for asking about my sweetie.

here's a copy of the post I sent Mon night, I did post yesterday but my post got lost when the board was down. (Elizabeth, that's why I didn't call, I stupidly hadn't written your number down, maybe we can talk tonight?)
Since I posted that, I have spoken to the head vet, will let you know what he said later (he was actually very helpful and apologetic), and Angel is going for his half price curve at my local vets tomorrow. Am alternating between trying to chill out outside and coming in checking the tv through covered eyes because my favourite tennis player David Ferrer is having a touch match!! (I'm such a cougar!) Lovely Ang is in at the moment but he's been otu enjoying the sun, I gave him a rest from his mid point check today since he's been through enough lately plus he's having a curve done tomorrow.
C xx

oh...I'm twice as furious with the vets now.

When I took Angel in, I told them he'd had 2 units at 2 pm. I'd also e mailed them his up to date spreadsheet which I know they got because they discussed it with me. The last phone conversation I had with them they were like 'oh well we're sending him him on one unit because he had a hypo on 1.5 units.
'no, he had a hypo on 2 units'
'it's in his notes he had 1.5 units yesterday at 2pm'
'no, as I told you when I came in, and as it says on his spreadsheet, he had 2 units yesterday. He had 1.5 units on SATURDAY'
'oh, well in that case 1 unit is probably a bit low for him but we don't want to change it again.'

When I picked him up I found out who to complain to, and asked nurse 1 for a copy of his bloods. Whilst they went to get that, my mobile (cellphone) rang and it was nurse 2, obviously to see where I was. I said 'I am standing in your reception right now' 'oh sorry, no one told me, I'll be out in a minute.'
Nurse 1 returned with (high!) curve results scribbled on a piece of paper. Nurse 2 appeared and had a chat with me. I asked them what time he was given insulin, can't remember which nurse said what, but one said it was 8 and the other one said no it was 7, oh yes, sorry, it was 7.

AAAARGH!!

Anyway, I've got my big ginger bundle of love back, first thing he did when we set off was throw up bile, which he's never done before, but now he's home he seems happy. I've given him a 6.6% carb food rather than the usual night grazing of 0-2.2, coz I don't want to test him until pre shot, he's been through enough. First thing tomorrow I will be straight on the phone to my local branch talking to Stan the vet there who I trust, and I will have his curve done there on Thurs. What a nightmare!!! My poor boy. I'd be just this angry even if I was rolling in money, it's the fact I took my baby believing it was the best place possible and they're a load of scr*w ups.

xxx
Click to expand...
 
((((((Angel)))) OMG it is so madden to spend all this money and not get the care you think they are getting. When I first came here I had a 3 week disagreement with my vet because she wanted me to give Trey more insulin then was advised by the angels here. She said do you want a vet or are you going to use the internet?? I answered Trey is my baby and I have to go with my gut and these people at FDMB feels the way I do...question is Do you want to be my vet? With that she said well ok if you need anything g just let me know....since that she has been great. So you are awesome for speaking up. Have a great day tons of healing green light surround both of you . ~O) :YMSIGH: Kath
 
(((Kath and Trey))) from me and Ange!!

Well, I have had an unofficial apology from the vet hospital! I was so annoyed yesterday that I rang the hospital and demanded to speak to the head vet, Jeremy Stewart. Funny thing is, he used to be on this programme called Animal Hospital, and my mum and I used to think he was really hot!! But all this went completely out of the window as I was so angry. I first asked how knowledgeable he was about feline diabetes. He said yes he had a lot of experience and also he had a diabetic dog. Anyway, I told him about the main 2 issues, he was very apologetic and also said that the 50% reduction was not a 'gesture of goodwill' it was acknowledging that errors were made.

He explained that the curve was done to show patterns of Angel's response and to try and pinpoint the nadir, more than to replicate the actual numbers I would get at home. Even if he had been on the correct food they would still have to factor in things like stress. Also he said he personally would have sent Angel home on 1 unit to be on the safe side. He thanked me for bringing it to his attention and wants me to put it in writing. I said I felt he needed to know because if errors were being made by his staff, he, as head vet, would have to deal with the fallout. He said if I wanted to make a formal complaint, it was understandable, or he could have an informal word with the members of staff concerned to make sure it didn't happen again, and let me know the results of his chat with them. I said that was fine, I didn't want anyone to lose their jobs over this and hopefully this would be enough. I told him how happy I am with my own vet who is part of the same company, and we chatted a bit about caring for diabetic furbabies, his dog was only diagnosed 3 months ago. I also said I'd keep him updated if Angel went on the RVC study. He was every bit as genuine as he seemed to be on the TV and so understanding about my distress.

Will post tomorrow after Angel's curve xx
 
That sounds like a result with Jeremy Stewart, well done Cassandra, you handled all that very well!
Diana
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top