Andreia - New member 6/11/2022 - Weight gaining

[Monchichi]

Hi everyone,

My 12 year old girl Andreia has had some rough months by the end of 2021 and the beginning of 2022, having being diagnosed with diabetes.

Before that she always ate dry food for urinary issues. In march 2020 she reached a weight of 8kg (freefeeding). I started giving only two meals a day (morning and evening) and by the summer of 2021 she had dropped to 4,5kg.

In september 2021 she was still loosing weight and started to sleep near the water bowl. I put the blame on the summer heat and the food. But in november she had dropped to 3,9kg and we finally went to the vet. She continued to loose a lot of weight (her lowest was 3kg), didn't want to eat, it was hard to make the diabetes diagnose and start insulin. Had to change vets and finally we got to start Lantus by the end of january 2022.

Started with two units and we are now down to one in the morning.

I started in the wrong place here in the forum and earlier wrote this post https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/6-11-andreia-amps-258-pmps-207-getting-overweight.264464/.

She has now 5,2kg and started to get lazy to clean herself. I want to reduce the food, but it would have to be two meals a day as I'm not at home during the day.

The vet that follows her believes that she should be freefeeding, despite the weight gain, and that we shouldn't be measuring glucose levels all the time. Our last measurements were about a month ago:


16.05.2022 - 7h30 - 255
16.05.2022 - 20h50 - 125
17.05.2022 - 7h40 - 258
17.05.2022 - 20h20 - 207

I dont't know what to do. I really don't want her to keep gaining weight as I know it has a severe impact on her life quality and personality.

I hope this is not a lot of information.

Thank you so much for any advice you can give.

 

[Chris and Checkers]

Hi, welcome to the site.

It is usually recommended that diabetic kitties eat several small meals throughout the day. If you are not home you can use an autofeeder. Some has as many as 5 compartments, so you can portion out food for her as well as controlling how much she eats.

What type of food are you feeding her?

Weird that your vet doesn't recommended testing much, on this site testing is very much encouraged and multiple times throughout the day. As this is the best way regulate our kitties diabetes and potentially get them into remission.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

First of all, are you home testing her blood sugars? The following post has some information for new people, including how to record blood sugar readings:
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

Lantus doesn't last all day in cats, two shots are better.

Maybe you should look for a better food, one that is low carb and lower calorie. More smaller meals are better. How much food are you giving per day?

 

[Monchichi]

Hi @Chris and Checkers and @Wendy&Neko, thank you for your replies!

Andreia is eating Hills M/d dry food. I tried the Purina Veterinary Diets Diabetes Management (also dry and also freefeeding) but her glucose levels increased.

She eats all day long, whenever she wants, from a food dispenser she shares with her brother (I didn't mention him in the presentation because it was already so long. His name is Felix, he is a healthy 7kg cat). So it's hard to ensure that Andreia eats only a certain amount of food per day.

The vet believes the glucose measurements cause stress to cats, that's why she doesn't recomend to do it very often. She also recomended to go from two units per day (morning and evening) to only one in the morning, because Andreia's glucose levels got really low in the evening. But I don't see any kind of evolution in her glucose levels since we started to give only one shot per day...

My major concern right now is that she gains more weight. When she was overweight, she often got UTIs because she couldn't manage to clean herself. Eventually I started doing it myself.

Thank you.

 

[Marina & Chico]

Here we are encouraged to test them and give them a treat every time after testing. very quickly they start learning and loving the procedure, for example our cat only sees us doing something around his pocking area he jumps right up the table to be tested, most people on the forum will subscribe to our experience - so really its not true that they are stressed by the pocking.

We only have one cat so i really don’t know how to manage 2 cats but feeding dry to a diabetic cat is like giving cake to a diabetic child. Best case scenario (if its dry for diabetics for ex ) it contains 21% carbs when really we should be feeding our cats in general but even more so our diabetic cats with food with max 10% carbs, most people on the forum feed food with 2-3% carbs. A good start would be to switch both cats to wet low carb food.

good luck

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

The vet believes the glucose measurements cause stress to cats, that's why she doesn't recomend to do it very often. She also recomended to go from two units per day (morning and evening) to only one in the morning, because Andreia's glucose levels got really low in the evening. But I don't see any kind of evolution in her glucose levels since we started to give only one shot per day...

I am sorry to disagree with your vet but it is simply not true that testing the blood glucose on a cat causes stress. If you follow how we suggest you do it your kitty will look forward to the treat. My Sheba used to come running from wherever she was in the house when she heard me at the testing equipment.
I also strongly disagree with your vet about dosing. Lantus is a twice a day insulin in cats. If you only give it once a day you are leaving your kitty for 12 hours with out any insulin and the BGs will get out of control. I would strongly recommend you go back to 2 X a day dosing,,
If you set up a spreadsheet we can help you with dosing.
She will gain some weight once the BGs are in more normal numbers. At the moment she is unable to utilise all the nutrients in the food without enough insulin.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

I'm another person jumping on the "your vet needs more continuing education" bandwagon. Your vet is partially correct but not about Lantus.

First, take a look at many of our spreadsheets. (They are in our signatures.) I was a testaholic. I had a kitty whose numbers could drop very quickly and the best way for me to keep Gabby safe was home testing. There is very good research on the role of home testing in diabetes management and this is particularly the case with Lantus. If you "teach" your cat that a test is associated with a treat, there's a good chance that your cat will come running to get tested. The vets base their assessment on cats getting stressed by testing due to cats being stressed at the vet's office. They seem to forget that your cat likely doesn't appreciate being put in a carrier, transported in the car, and then being in a vet's office with the noises and smells from strange other animals and a stranger handling her. It's also a reason that using the blood glucose test information collected at the vet's office is generally inaccurate -- the stress levels cause a rise in blood glucose levels and if the vet bases dosage on that number, there's a good chance it could overdose your cat. That's my long winded way of saying home testing is a valuable tool for diabetes management and more importantly, keeping your cat safe.

One of the issues with weight gain may be what you're feeding your cat. The M/D is high in calories -- 463 calories per cup. It's also what we would consider a medium carb (i.e., 15% carb) food. However, I'm not sure I trust the information on the Hill's site. The numbers they posted exclude moisture in the food. In addition, their canned M/D is 13% and dry food is notoriously higher in carbs than canned. The first several ingredients include: Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken, Chicken Fat, Wheat Gluten, Potato Protein, Powdered Cellulose, Pork Protein Isolate, Corn Starch, Sweet Potatoes. That's a fair amount of product that a cat can't digest -- I underlined the vegetable matter that reflect carbs. (And powdered cellulose is sawdust!!) Cats are obligate carnivores. If you switch over to a low carb, canned food diet which is closer to what a cat would eat in the wild, there's a good chance Andreia may lose weight. The canned food also contains a good deal more moisture. This is important for several reasons. Cats have a limited thirst drive -- well, that's the case with non-diabetic cats -- so it's important that they get their moisture from their food. Diabetes is hard on the kidneys. So if your cat isn't particularly motivated to drink, using a food that provides greater moisture will help to protect the kidneys. Many of us actually add water to canned food. If you want more information on feline nutrition, I linked a site that is a wealth of information. You want to be feeding your cat a diet that's low in carbohydrates -- less than 10% carb although most of us use foods that are in the 5% range. This chart has a listing of most of the canned foods that are available in the US along with nutritional information.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I had a second cat the same time Neko was diabetic. One time I took him into the vet and he registered over 220 from the blood work taken at the vet clinic. Next day vet called me concerned about possibly on the way to diabetes. I tested him - 53 at home. Vet stress is real. I must admit he was surprised he got the poke. He was always followed Neko to the test spot, knowing a treat came afterwards. But this time Neko got to watch and get a treat.

The reason I asked how much food you were giving was the high calories. Your cat needs less food, or preferably a food that is lower calorie and lower carb. I put both mine on the same food when Neko became diabetic. The other cat, who I adopted as a fatty at 17 lbs/7.7 kg, slimmed down gradually to a much better size on the wet and raw food suitable for a diabetic.