ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5 184

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Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45

It's hard to say but it's possible that he finally filled his depot. There is a reason we leave them at the initial dose for 5-7 days...it's to fill the depot.

The other possibility is he could have been going lower during his cycled and then popping back up. I've seen cats at 300 at AMPS, 40 at +6, and over 300 at PMPS. Without the midcycle test, the caregiver would have thought the cat was just high.

We should see if there is a way for you to start getting out the door/in the door tests when you work and a before bed test at night.
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

Great! let's give him a break for an hour. No more food for now unless he's hungry. If he is just give him low-carb.
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

Thanks so much. I'll start my next post on a new page. I really appreciate all your help. Feel like having a good cry now. He should be out of te woods now right?
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

:thumbup Hi Simke! Baptism by fire here! But you did great. :thumbup

Please continue in the same condo , we try to have one condo per day, if it goes into extra sheets that's fine.
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

you don't need to start your next post on another page. Just one condo per day per cat so just stay on this one through today and tonight.

A few recaps:
  • Please reduce his dose to .75u twice a day. If he bounces way up into the high 200s/or above 300 by PMPS, you can "shoot through the bounce" with the 1u dose tonight and then reduce to .75u tomorrow morning. You are also free to take the reduction tonight if you prefer.
  • If possible, it would be great if you could get the tests I recommended earlier each day during the work week: always the Preshots as you have been, a +2 OR out-the-door (either works), an in-the-door, and then at night either a +2 or a before bed; then on weekends, you can do a little more testing to see what he's doing.
  • Please keep an eye on him because I am very worried about the episode he had. At the very least, please talk to your vet.
  • I know you have lots of folks around, but please be sure and get another test between now and PMPS; all that HC could wear off and he might wobble a bit but I don't anticipate that he will wobble back down low.
  • When you have time later today/tonight, if you could please revise the SS to match the tests you got, we would really appreciate it. Let me know if you need help. You can stack numbers in one column. For instance, in the +6 column, you can reduce the font and type "34; 36 @ 6.5" (without the quotations).

you did really well today, Simone. Pat yourself on the back for staying calm through all of this and all you have going on otherwise.

Please let us know if you have any questions.
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

Simone --

If you don't mind, can you copy the post from the 2nd thread you started and paste it in this thread? Then, can you delete the other thread? We open one thread (aka "condo") per cat per day, like Marje said. Lantus Land is a big and busy place so we keep each day's information in one place. In addition, when you link your condos on the next day, it helps to have only one to go back to.

Good job today. It seems like I missed the excitement. I agree with Marje about talking to your vet. It can't hurt to have Simke checked out.

In addition to Marje's list of take away information the other thing I would add is that when you see a substantial drop between PMPS and +2, you want to start testing more often. A big drops tells you it's going to be an active cycle. The early tests will let you intervene sooner to bring numbers up.
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

Thanks Sienne....I knew there was something else to put in my recap list but couldn't remember it.....you got it with the testing after a big drop. Very important.
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

Simone, you did a great job!!!

Marje, as always, you did a great job helping!

So glad to see his numbers coming up
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

Ok, looking at needle I think he received him 2 units today :( He is now 449, What should I do as he is due for his insulin in 20 minutes
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

I put the link here. How do I delete my other post?
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

Ok decided to give him 1 unit. Any help appreciated.
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45

Simke said:
He has been so high all week, why do you think he is so low
Click to expand...

I notice on your spreadsheet this morning you said he "only ate a bite this am but then has eaten about half a can at +4".
That could be part of the reason for the drop. Food takes a while to be digested and get into the system, so usually when the insulin kicks in (usually around two hours after the shot) there is food in his system to balance it out. This time there wasn't. Some people won't give a shot if the cat doesn't eat properly first.

My cat makes a habit of crazy drops, so I've found it's really important in her particular case to get most of her food into her early in the cycle to avoid as much of a drop . . . but she still pulled one on me this morning (by +5 she went from 21.2 to 2.0, in the numbers everyone in the world uses except the Americans, or for them that's 382 to 36, but however you say it . . . yikes!!) The more tests you get the more you'll be able to decide what to do if he is less hungry at shot time, but if you do decide to shoot after he's eaten less than usual you might try offering food again 1/2 hour or an hour later so it can have time to get into his system before the insulin kicks in.

But you did a great job with all the testing, and kept him safe! And now at least you know that you are giving the shot correctly, and that the insulin is working!
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

I kept offering him food but he wasn't into it. I haven't given him his pottassium today but thinking about skipping it. Maybe when he didn't eat I could have offered him the gravy food then?

Are you suggesting if he doesn't it to reduce amt of insulin like maybe a .5?

Did you see the note that I accidentally gave him 2 units, that does kind of explain it.

Can't believe I have had so many problems injecting him, it is just such a tiny amt. :(
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

If you did give 2 units that could account for the drop too. It will take time for all the HC to get out of his system, but still get a +1 or +2 tonight. Syrup can give a fast boost, but it also clears the system quickly.

To delete that other post: there is a button w/ a boxed "X" next to the, edit button in the main body of the post. Click that as long as no one has replied to the post you can delete it.
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

Usually when people first start giving insulin, the guideline is "if no food, no insulin". There's some debate about whether that's a good rule or not, and the better you know your cat the better you'll know whether it is something you want to go by. If your cat usually has a good appetite and in all probability will eat a little later if not right now, plus if the preshot number is pretty high to give you a bit more margin for error, you may decide to give the regular amount of insulin. But it's definitely a situation you need to keep a close eye on if you do give the insulin.

Yes, sometimes the gravy food comes in handy earlier in the cycle - there have been a couple times when my cat has a good but low-ish preshot number, I decide to shoot as usual anyway, and then she THROWS UP EVERYTHING an hour later and won't eat again immediately. Then I'll give her something higher carb as soon as she will accept it just so I know something will be there when the insulin starts to work. The first low numbers are really scary for sure, but it's so good that you are testing and keeping track of everything. Information is power!

If he really did get 2 units this morning, because of the way Lantus works it may have some effect on the next cycle too, so make sure you get some early tests to see where thing are going.
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

ppms +1.5 454
Any thoughts on whether I give his potassium?
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

His potassium shouldn't affect his BG.

Sorry I didn't see your earlier post...I had to run out since he was safely up.

It's always a good idea when we finish working low numbers to go back through the entire thread and read everything. Sometimes we cross post and you can miss important info. You might not have seen this:

A few recaps:
Please reduce his dose to .75u twice a day. If he bounces way up into the high 200s/or above 300 by PMPS, you can "shoot through the bounce" with the 1u dose tonight and then reduce to .75u tomorrow morning. You are also free to take the reduction tonight if you prefer.
If possible, it would be great if you could get the tests I recommended earlier each day during the work week: always the Preshots as you have been, a +2 OR out-the-door (either works), an in-the-door, and then at night either a +2 or a before bed; then on weekends, you can do a little more testing to see what he's doing.
Please keep an eye on him because I am very worried about the episode he had. At the very least, please talk to your vet.
I know you have lots of folks around, but please be sure and get another test between now and PMPS; all that HC could wear off and he might wobble a bit but I don't anticipate that he will wobble back down low.
When you have time later today/tonight, if you could please revise the SS to match the tests you got, we would really appreciate it. Let me know if you need help. You can stack numbers in one column. For instance, in the +6 column, you can reduce the font and type "34; 36 @ 6.5" (without the quotations).
Click to expand...

And adding what Sienne referred to:
When you get a drop between the PS and +2, it's a good idea to stay on top of testing and get a +3.

Since he bounced up really high, it was ok to shoot 1u tonight. Tomorrow morning, please shoot .75u...that is his new dose. If his depot was really full, giving 2u this morning could have caused these low numbers today. If I had known you possibly shot 2u this morning, I would have sent you to the ER from the beginning ;-)
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

Not sure why he plummeted, however, you did a wonderful job on getting his #s back up. :-D I was contacted via private message (PM) and was asked to help you input the data into your SS once everything settled down so that you can keep tabs more correctly, and for the more knowledgeable members to quickly see how Simke is doing. I would be glad to help you with that. :-D

You'll get more used to low #s (hopefully not that low again), and will learn how to deal with them. Over time, you'll learn how Simke reacts to different things (case in point, the syrup, extra or different food, etc.). I think you can breathe now, though. You did a wonderful job! :-D Don't get too discouraged if his #s are higher than his PMPS #. Just continue give him the insulin, and feed, and eventually those #s will come down.
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

Hi,

22.4 now
403 now

Sorry what shall I do with my chart. If I test again in 2hrs, is that ok or should I get up and test him through the night?

Thanks,

Simone
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

Angela has graciously offered to help with his spreadsheet. Thanks, Angela!!!!

Simone...if you test in two hours and he's still high and not dropping, you can go to bed for the night.
 
Re: ams 306 +2 220, +4, 61,, +6 34, +6.5 36,+7 41 7.5 45 8.5

+3 459 or 25.5
So off to bed, :0)

So funny now I am happy he is high, there is no pleasing me ;)
 
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