AMPS - 407, 380 +2, 303 +4, 307 +6, PMPS 301, 250 +, 201 +4 BG keeps dropping

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jillnc1

jillnc1

Member Since 2022
Mac's first day on insulin. He was a trooper the whole day. Only question I have so far is why would PMPS still be 301. Looks like he has been in cruising mode since +4 instead of rising up at end of cycle. I did give him his 1 u shot. Testing at +2 and +4 BG continues to drop. I will continue to test hourly until it starts to cruise. Is this normal? Do you think it will continue to drop? Should I anticipate any surprises? Thanks in advance.

Link to yesterday's introduction post:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/newbie-diabetic-mama-help.259640/
 
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Welcome. My cat had chronic pancreatitis for a few years before becoming diabetic. I used ondansetron for nausea. Since Mac is being picky about eating, he needs nausea medication. Some cats have a big reaction to the first shot. Normal bg on a human meter is 50-100 so although Mac’s has gone down it is not in a dangerous level. I’d get a +6 but I don’t think he will continue to drop. He might be dropping because he has t had much to eat. Try and get him to eat a little now and again in an hour. Small amounts often is good for both pancreatitis and diabetes.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Welcome. My cat had chronic pancreatitis for a few years before becoming diabetic. I used ondansetron for nausea. Since Mac is being picky about eating, he needs nausea medication. Some cats have a big reaction to the first shot. Normal bg on a human meter is 50-100 so although Mac’s has gone down it is not in a dangerous level. I’d get a +6 but I don’t think he will continue to drop. He might be dropping because he has t had much to eat. Try and get him to eat a little now and again in an hour. Small amounts often is good for both pancreatitis and diabetes.
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Thanks! I was just going to update post. I did a +5 and it was 239 so feel better and will go to bed now. He is on 4 MG Cerenia and 2mg odansetron. I did give him a little food between +4 and +5 and that seemed to help. Thanks for being there for me.
 
Hi there, I am new as well my cat was just diagnosed in January of this year.

that being said, I don't think there's enough data yet to say for sure but from what you do have, he seemed to nadir right around +4

but the real answer from an expert here would surely be, not enough testing yet give it some time, fill in more data points then the picture will start to develop.

I think in the later part of the AM cycle what you're seeing as a drop is really just staying the same (flat). With the test variance a 301 is essentially the same reading as a 317. It is a very flat and nice cycle! You should be encouraged, good job with the testing!
 
Hi Jill welcome, can you please add Lantus to your signature please and on your spreadsheet up top where you have put 1 unit for current insulin can you just put Lantus. Thank you Jill :cat:
 
Mac has been a trooper allowing me to do it. All the advice: warming, vaseline, bigger gauge lancet all proved invaluable and now I can do it pretty well. As all beginners I was frustrated when I was practicing prior to him actually starting his shots. I knew I had no choice but to figure it out :).
Thanks for reading my post and offering advice
 
jillnc1 said:
Mac has been a trooper allowing me to do it. All the advice: warming, vaseline, bigger gauge lancet all proved invaluable and now I can do it pretty well. As all beginners I was frustrated when I was practicing prior to him actually starting his shots. I knew I had no choice but to figure it out :).
Thanks for reading my post and offering advice
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ah yes those tips were key for me as well! We ditched the lancing device and used a 25g lancet freehand, a longer one than the tiny little thing that goes in the lancing device. This was so helpful at first.

Now, after about 6 weeks of regular BG hometests, we have ditched the longer, larger lancets and freehand with a short little 31g lancet that is intended to go into a lancing device, but we use it freehand. It has been great to be able to poke smaller holes, sometimes if I get it *just* right he doesn't seem to even feel it!! I wish I could figure out how to do that every time, but maybe I will in the future as I gain more and more experience.

Almost time for a +4, will my Hendrick get into the greens today? I'm guessing no, just a mid-blue. But I'll take it.
 
Good Luck to you and Hendrick today! I'll try to remember to take a look and see how he has done. Also our kitties have many things in common with the pancreatitis and my kitty is Tonkinese which is half-Siamese but usually acts like 100% :). So I would like to stay connected. I like what your cat eats. I might see if my Mac will try those.
 
jillnc1 said:
Good Luck to you and Hendrick today! I'll try to remember to take a look and see how he has done. Also our kitties have many things in common with the pancreatitis and my kitty is Tonkinese which is half-Siamese but usually acts like 100% :). So I would like to stay connected. I like what your cat eats. I might see if my Mac will try those.
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Thank you for the well wishes!!

Your picture of Mac reminds me of one of my favorite fur-buddies of all time, my seal point Rygel. Rygel was super-healthy and fit, not a sign of any trouble on his bill of health. Then one night in May of 2014 at about 2am he just died suddenly. We'll never know why but at least he did not suffer. Was super-quick and he was gone. RIP Rygel

Yes lets stay connected I have officially friended and followed you on the forum!

As far as food goes, we went through the whole transition thing as we used to free-feed dry food from auto-feeders for all 6 kitties. That is gone and we are feeding only canned or freeze-dried raw that has been re-hydrated.

The raw food is awesome, several of the cats have totally found their inner carnivore and love the raw food more than any food they've ever been given. Like really, REALLY love it. A couple of the others are still coming around.

We buy Stella and Chewys freeze-dried dinner morsels, and Primal cakes. so far the Duck Duck Goose and the Tummy Ticklin' Turkey are the favorites. They also work well to break into small, m&m-sized pieces and give out now and then as treats without re-hydrating.
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
Thank you for the well wishes!!

Your picture of Mac reminds me of one of my favorite fur-buddies of all time, my seal point Rygel. Rygel was super-healthy and fit, not a sign of any trouble on his bill of health. Then one night in May of 2014 at about 2am he just died suddenly. We'll never know why but at least he did not suffer. Was super-quick and he was gone. RIP Rygel

Yes lets stay connected I have officially friended and followed you on the forum!

As far as food goes, we went through the whole transition thing as we used to free-feed dry food from auto-feeders for all 6 kitties. That is gone and we are feeding only canned or freeze-dried raw that has been re-hydrated.

The raw food is awesome, several of the cats have totally found their inner carnivore and love the raw food more than any food they've ever been given. Like really, REALLY love it. A couple of the others are still coming around.

We buy Stella and Chewys freeze-dried dinner morsels, and Primal cakes. so far the Duck Duck Goose and the Tummy Ticklin' Turkey are the favorites. They also work well to break into small, m&m-sized pieces and give out now and then as treats without re-hydrating.
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I have followed you now too! Will check into your food suggestions. We are off dry (he is not eating much on his own right now so that part was easy) but need to find something he will eat without assistance once he gets his appetite back!
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
Thank you for the well wishes!!

Your picture of Mac reminds me of one of my favorite fur-buddies of all time, my seal point Rygel. Rygel was super-healthy and fit, not a sign of any trouble on his bill of health. Then one night in May of 2014 at about 2am he just died suddenly. We'll never know why but at least he did not suffer. Was super-quick and he was gone. RIP Rygel

Yes lets stay connected I have officially friended and followed you on the forum!

As far as food goes, we went through the whole transition thing as we used to free-feed dry food from auto-feeders for all 6 kitties. That is gone and we are feeding only canned or freeze-dried raw that has been re-hydrated.

The raw food is awesome, several of the cats have totally found their inner carnivore and love the raw food more than any food they've ever been given. Like really, REALLY love it. A couple of the others are still coming around.

We buy Stella and Chewys freeze-dried dinner morsels, and Primal cakes. so far the Duck Duck Goose and the Tummy Ticklin' Turkey are the favorites. They also work well to break into small, m&m-sized pieces and give out now and then as treats without re-hydrating.
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Hi
I noticed on Hendricks spreadsheet you have a column for Ketones. How do you get such specific numbers? I bought the Ketostix and they show a color chart with rough numbers. Is there a device that let’s you get ketones a different way?

Thanks
 
jillnc1 said:
Hi
I noticed on Hendricks spreadsheet you have a column for Ketones. How do you get such specific numbers? I bought the Ketostix and they show a color chart with rough numbers. Is there a device that let’s you get ketones a different way?

Thanks
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Yes you can buy blood ketone meters, I bought the Nova Max as suggested by a member here (@Bron and Sheba (GA) maybe? )

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G5OE0QY/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

The test strips are pricey though. $20 gets you 10.
 
jillnc1 said:
Thanks!!
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You're welcome, as you may notice it can do both BG and Ketones, but you need to buy both kinds of strips to do that

I thought it would be easier to use two meters than to try and take a strip out and replace it with another one, so we use our regular BG meter and the Nova Max when we test ketones.

I set them side by side and once I've got a blood droplet, I pick up our BG meter, touch the test strip to the droplet, set it down, grab the Nova Max, touch its test strip to the droplet, and done. Works very well and easy to use same droplet.

the idea of trying to catch a pee sample and using the ketostix never appealed to me and I figured, I'm getting a blood droplet anyway for BG testing, why not use a blood ketone meter and get a more precise reading anyway?
 
tiffmaxee said:
Welcome. My cat had chronic pancreatitis for a few years before becoming diabetic. I used ondansetron for nausea. Since Mac is being picky about eating, he needs nausea medication. Some cats have a big reaction to the first shot. Normal bg on a human meter is 50-100 so although Mac’s has gone down it is not in a dangerous level. I’d get a +6 but I don’t think he will continue to drop. He might be dropping because he has t had much to eat. Try and get him to eat a little now and again in an hour. Small amounts often is good for both pancreatitis and diabetes.
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Could you look at Mac' spreadsheet for the second day please? It went up most of the day even after the second shot. He did eat much better today compared to other days and I fed him 30 minutes before the second shot and a little at +2. It will be interesting to see what he is in the morning.
 
With Lantus you test, feed, and then shoot all in about 5-10 minutes. Don’t wait 30. You don’t want to feed 2 hours before insulin because you don’t want a food influenced BG. You test to make sure it’s safe to give insulin. You feed to make sure he will eat. Then you give insulin. Lantus is a depot insulin. It will take 5.7 days for the depot to build and to see what the initial dose will do for his BG.
 
tiffmaxee said:
With Lantus you test, feed, and then shoot all in about 5-10 minutes. Don’t wait 30. You don’t want to feed 2 hours before insulin because you don’t want a food influenced BG. You test to make sure it’s safe to give insulin. You feed to make sure he will eat. Then you give insulin. Lantus is a depot insulin. It will take 5.7 days for the depot to build and to see what the initial dose will do for his BG.
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OK that's what I did the first day. Then I thought I read on the forum you were supposed to feed 30 minutes ahead of time. Most likely that was for a different insulin. So I understand, no eating 2 hrs before you take AMPS and PMPS, then test, feed, shoot all together. For the rest of the day can we free feed getting a little to him every few hours? Is there a link to a "Feeding" instructions on the forum I may have missed. He started showing interest in food on his own last night and actually drank water on his own this morning. So with the anti-nausea meds and getting hand-fed throughout the day his pancreas may be starting to settle down. He was 401 AMPS today. Unfortunately I already fed him and was waiting. But I went ahead just now and gave shot. Thanks for your advice. It is nice to have someone who has experience in these situations to give advice. I will try not to abuse it. Have a great day!
 
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Other insulins require you to wait 30 minutes after eating but depot insulins like lantus and Levemir don’t start working until +2 for most cats. Even if it onsets early it doesn’t require waiting time. Have you completely stopped the dry food? If not you need to follow SLGS instead of TR. You can free feed all other times but most of us try to feed most of the food by nadir. Feeding later can shorten duration and not give you carry over to the next cycle. Cats that have an active cycle sometimes need a snack at +10 so they will be high enough to shoot the next dose.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Other insulins require you to wait 30 minutes after eating but depot insulins like lantus and Levemir don’t start working until +2 for most cats. Even if it onsets early it doesn’t require waiting time. Have you completely stopped the dry food? If not you need to follow SLGS instead of TR. You can free feed all other times but most of us try to feed most of the food by nadir. Feeding later can shorten duration and not give you carry over to the next cycle. Cats that have an active cycle sometimes need a snack at +10 so they will be high enough to shoot the next dose.
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Thanks so much for responding. He is off dry food. He stopped eating 2 weeks ago so I just won't start him back on it. Until he starts eating better I am hand feeding so I am in total control of when he eats. So what would be the perfect feeding schedule if I could control it? and is it the same for each cycle. Thanks!
 
jillnc1 said:
He is off dry food. He stopped eating 2 weeks ago so I just won't start him back on it. Until he starts eating better I am hand feeding so I am in total control of when he eats. So what would be the perfect feeding schedule if I could control it? and is it the same for each cycle. Thanks!
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Every cat is different. You will see ECID a lot here. You need to test to see what works for him. I fed at preshot and onset which for Max was +2-2.5. If an active cycle I then would test and feed according to his numbers. He had chronic pancreatitis so he got 3-4 meals each cycle an snacks if the cycle was active. If not dropping too low he got all his food for each cycle by +5-7. Some cats bg drops drops fast so they need to feed at +1 to slow them down. IRS definitely not one size fits all. Lots of trial and error.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Have you seen this? Scroll to see feeding topics.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/the-basics-new-to-the-group-start-here.18139/
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I did see lower down about managing the curve with food, etc. I think between that and what you have shared I am getting a feel for things to try and that it isn't one size fits all. Mac did go to 312 at +2 today so I am glad to see him in an active cycle even if I did wait 30 minutes after eating. Thanks again for all the great advice so I can benefit from your experience.
 
Your welcome. I think it’s time for you to start posting daily on the LLB FORUM. you have the format down and are all set up. Soon we will see how this dose is working. You won’t consider a change until you complete 7 days on the initial dose. After that increases occur every 6-10 cycles. Reductions are if the bg goes under 50. At first keep asking questions and ask for dosing advice. You will have more experienced eyes on your spreadsheet on the lantus forum. You can start tomorrow or wait until you complete the first week. Of course you can stay here if you prefer.

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/posting-guidelines-please-read.231511/

Mac is so handsome! I have a female that has some Siamese and who knows what in her that looks a bit like him.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Your welcome. I think it’s time for you to start posting daily on the LLB FORUM. you have the format down and are all set up. Soon we will see how this dose is working. You won’t consider a change until you complete 7 days on the initial dose. After that increases occur every 6-10 cycles. Reductions are if the bg goes under 50. At first keep asking questions and ask for dosing advice. You will have more experienced eyes on your spreadsheet on the lantus forum. You can start tomorrow or wait until you complete the first week. Of course you can stay here if you prefer.

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/posting-guidelines-please-read.231511/

Mac is so handsome! I have a female that has some Siamese and who knows what in her that looks a bit like him.
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Thanks! I will do that. Thanks again!
 
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