? AMPS 148 Should I have decreased?

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ppp

ppp

Member Since 2017
Very confused about these numbers I'm getting.

Too late for this a.m. (Rushing to get out of here, I decided to stick with last night's units, before I really took in his #. Now, staying home, with gravy handy, given his decreases other recent days.)

Here's the previous thread.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dose-increase.187764/

(I really wouldn't mind staying in Blue; I've often read that staying in blues [and even yellows] is fine. But looking over others's spreadsheets, I don't see any that stay in Blue consistently. Does this just not happen?)
 
So if you shot a dose less than your intended dose, like last night, best to put a BCS next to that "1.6 BCS" so others know your reasoning there. You want to keep as consistent a dose as possible. 1.5 to 1.75 to 1.6 in the span of 3 days is going to mess with the depot and you'll have a hard time figuring out what any dose is doing like that. Also, shooting 1.6 consistently will make your head spin with increase and decrease calculations, so it's best to stay at 1.5 or 1.75.

I would definitely monitor him today, but all in all, it looks like good things are happening and he is trending towards good numbers. Are you doing SLGS or TR? If you have decided on one, put it in your siggy so people know how to help you.

Take my two cents with a grain of salt, I'm not nearly as experienced as many members here are: As I understand it, while staying in blue or possibly yellow is not necessarily bad for your cat, normal numbers are in green. Lantus being a hormone and not a drug, you don't get to choose where you want your cats BGs to be. You're trying to get into normal numbers, and outside of them being green, your cat will choose what is normal for him, maybe it's in the 70s maybe it's in the 90s. If only we had that kind of control. ;)

I hope that makes sense.
 
ppp said:
(I really wouldn't mind staying in Blue; I've often read that staying in blues [and even yellows] is fine. But looking over others's spreadsheets, I don't see any that stay in Blue consistently. Does this just not happen?)
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Nearly impossible to do. Almost everyone wants to stay in blues when they start (me too), but it's not doable. For my Neko, I found it's much easier to have steady numbers if her nadirs were in the 70's. Then most of her numbers would be below renal threshold. Which for her was low 200's. ECID, but that's what worked for me. The increased insulin to get higher green nadirs, also reduced the height of the bounces.

It also helps us help you if you decide if you want to follow SLGS or TR for dosing. When you pick one, put that in your signature. With SLGS you might not have done yesterday's increase cause you saw a nadir below 150. With TR, you would have increased.

Since you shot 1.6 this morning and last night, I would try sticking with it to stabilize the depot, as Stacy mentioned. Unless of course he earns a reduction.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
So if you shot a dose less than your intended dose, like last night, best to put a BCS next to that "1.6 BCS" so others know your reasoning there. You want to keep as consistent a dose as possible. 1.5 to 1.75 to 1.6 in the span of 3 days is going to mess with the depot and you'll have a hard time figuring out what any dose is doing like that. Also, shooting 1.6 consistently will make your head spin with increase and decrease calculations, so it's best to stay at 1.5 or 1.75.. ;)
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Thanks for your reply.

What is "BCS" ? (I looked, but did not find it, in the glossary.)

Regarding the 1.6; when I saw the drop to green at +3 thought maybe .25 increase was too much. I see that neither protocol recommends this, though.
 
ppp said:
Thanks for your reply.

What is "BCS" ? (I looked, but did not find it, in the glossary.)

Regarding the 1.6; when I saw the drop to green at +3 thought maybe .25 increase was too much. I see that neither protocol recommends this, though.
Click to expand...
BCS is big chicken shot or big chicken $*** dose, it's a very technical term, it just means you shot less on purpose but it's not a decrease. ;)

You might get worried at a number, but changing the dose around like that won't fix it. If the depot is built up, one short shot may or may not make a difference on the cycle you wish to correct, but it will certainly affect the depot. Depending on which approach you go with, you would either have taken a full reduction (1.5) at last night's PMPS with that 96 (SLGS, and I only think that's how that works, I don't use SLGS or know all the ins and outs of it). Or you would keep at the 1.75 and monitor closely (TR).

But going forward, I would stick with Wendy's advice (she really knows her stuff) and keep the 1.6 for a few cycles and see where it goes.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Nearly impossible to do. Almost everyone wants to stay in blues when they start (me too), but it's not doable. For my Neko, I found it's much easier to have steady numbers if her nadirs were in the 70's. Then most of her numbers would be below renal threshold. Which for her was low 200's. ECID, but that's what worked for me. The increased insulin to get higher green nadirs, also reduced the height of the bounces.

It also helps us help you if you decide if you want to follow SLGS or TR for dosing. When you pick one, put that in your signature. With SLGS you might not have done yesterday's increase cause you saw a nadir below 150. With TR, you would have increased.

Since you shot 1.6 this morning and last night, I would try sticking with it to stabilize the depot, as Stacy mentioned. Unless of course he earns a reduction.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. I hesitate to claim SLGS because my vet's initial recommendation was 3 U; and while I quickly adjusted that downwards, I did not start with the very low numbers per protocol there. (I would rather be less than more aggressive, though; I'll try to see how I can put this in my signature, since you both recommend it. Have to decide what to give up of course, to stay within allowed characters.)

I didn't initially see the "nadir below 150" which you mentioned, but finally did find the 142 at PMPS on 12/6. It hadn't occurred to me that we were supposed to look back days, prior to an increase. How many days back would you look (if you Ever had a # below 150, you would never increase?)
 
Stacy & Asia said:
BCS is big chicken shot or big chicken $*** dose, it's a very technical term, it just means you shot less on purpose but it's not a decrease. ;)

You might get worried at a number, but changing the dose around like that won't fix it. If the depot is built up, one short shot may or may not make a difference on the cycle you wish to correct, but it will certainly affect the depot. Depending on which approach you go with, you would either have taken a full reduction (1.5) at last night's PMPS with that 96 (SLGS, and I only think that's how that works, I don't use SLGS or know all the ins and outs of it). Or you would keep at the 1.75 and monitor closely (TR).

But going forward, I would stick with Wendy's advice (she really knows her stuff) and keep the 1.6 for a few cycles and see where it goes.
Click to expand...

Thanks much. I appreciate your giving me the consistency between the two of you.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Depending on which approach you go with, you would either have taken a full reduction (1.5) at last night's PMPS with that 96 (SLGS, and I only think that's how that works,
Click to expand...
Reductions on SLGS are if you go below 90. So that 96 would not have earned a reduction. High greens like that are great numbers.

The SLGS goals are to find a dose that gets you nadirs between 150 and 90. Since that 142 was just under, with time and experience, SLGS people might have increased like you did. SLGS evaluates one weeks worth of data on the same dose - so that's how far back you look.
 
OK, feeling good that I'm on the program, to stay at 1.6 for a week (unless we fall below 90). In fact, I think we'll be there for a while, since I leave 12/20 for 7 days. So far, this looks like a safe place for him while my husband takes over. (Knock on wood.)

(Although ... why he's going up since his shot today???! I was working on a theory that perhaps his going up at night has something to do with our letting the temp in the house go down to 60; so much for that. I remind myself again that we're talking about hormones ... just not so simple ... all the better to have some experience embedded in the protocol.)

Meanwhile, behavior is very good. He is more alert; watching the birds and squirrels from his usual window ledge.
 
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