am 394, +1 465, +3 398, +5 368, +7 399, +9 322, +11 335

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LydetteSimmie (Iceman)

LydetteSimmie (Iceman)

Member Since 2014
Hi - I've been really sick since I got back from my last vacation. Just after I got back Simmie went off his zero carb Tki so I moved him to Fancy Feast and I think that is why some of his number are high. BUT the emergency is that I overslept past his normal t/f/s time so I jumped up and just gave him his insulin. I might have given him too much. 2 units too much. I cannot be sure because I was so groggy but I don't remember doing the double check on the amount I always do. I don't want to wait until he possibly nose dives and I plan to test every hour then perhaps every 1/2 hour so I can take him to the vet if I really screwed this up. What should I do now? I need help.

Big :sad: Hugs,
Lydette and the Simmie
 
Re: Might have given too much!!!!!

I'm at work, so my availability is spotty, but I can peek in on you here and there, as well as try to get some other eyes to check in.

What was Simmie's starting point this morning? You are on the right track...start testing at +1 and go from there. Unfortunately we can't predict anything...sometimes one shot that is too much doesn't have any effect at all, but we don't know until some time passes and you start getting tests.

Do you have high carb food and lots of tests strips on hand? If you see his numbers start to inch downward, just keep testing and evaluate with each reading. You may or may not need to feed him to keep the numbers up, and you want to be careful about over-feeding, because you want him to be hungry if he needs to continue eating. You really only need to break out the high carb if he starts nose-diving into lower numbers.

We'll have to take this one test at a time, but you're not alone!
 
Re: Might have given too much!!!!!

Hi Lydette,
Just keep watching him. What time does his onset usually begin? That will be When it is most importent to keep testing. Have some HC gravy ready, and also some Karo or maple syrup on hand. He'll probably be OK. Also, you may not have given an overdose at all. So don't panic. I remember the story of someone's cat sitter who, instead of giving 3.0 units, gave 30 units! The cat was ok.

Think positively!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: Might have given too much!!!!!

Lydette

I agree with Amy thst you have the right plan. As long as he was a little higher, you can check every hour until you see the numbers start down (if they do). If he started lower, as in green, you might have to check more often. Be sure, before he onsets, thst you have all the supplies Amy mentioned.

Sometimes these are non events....sometimes we see low numbers so it's important to stay on top of it.

I'm also around a couple hours to check in but have an eye dr appt later this morning.
 
Re: Might have given too much!!!!!

Oh Amy, getting your reply just helped me stop crying from being so stupid and possibly hurting my little Iceman. Thank you.

I understand about you being at work. I was just going to break out some high carb food to give him until I read your note. It makes sense. I've never seen Simmie NOT willing to eat food, bugs, random things I am unsure of (joking aside, this actually,makes us very very careful about not dropping dangerous stuff and we also have notes in our guest room about people needing to watch their pills, etc if they stay over) but I think I will try to keep him less full in case there is a problem.

I have plenty of strips, Karo and high carb gravy food.

Thank you again for being there for me. I love this forum and the people in it.

Luv Lydette and Simmie
 
Re: Might have given too much!!!!!

Hi Ella and Marj,

Boy Amy, the Calvary really did turn up in no time! You are all so great and Simmie thanks you. He's napping next to me now with his icebowl.

Nadir hits between +5 to +8. It's a big spread for him.

Thanks for the stories, they really help and allows me to feel less alone.

I'm trying to calm down now. nailbite_smile
 
Re: Might have given too much!!!!!

Yes, definitely don't rush into "stuff the kitty wiith sugar" mode just yet!! 12+ hours is a long time, so we definitely want to be sure his belly stays as happy as possible. It's good to know that he loves to eat!!
 
Re: Might have given too much!!!!!

So right after I gave him his shot he was:

394 (probably because I was an hour later giving him his insulin)

now +1 he is a whopping 465!

I did give him more of his higher carb treats that I used to give him before I found out how high in carbs they were! I used one of the forum's calculators to figure it out just recently. I only got these when I was a newbie and misunderstood that grain free doesn't mean CARB free. Anyway, could it be because of these treats that he jumped so high or is it just because there was little depot and the lantus hasn't kicked in yet? I'm trying my best to learn from you guys.
 
Re: Might have given too much!!!!!

It could be a combination of things, but my best guess is it's primarily a food spike (which may or may not be affected by the treats). No matter what, it's not unusual to see a higher +1, since Lantus USUALLY doesn't kick in till around +2 or so. So, even though it's a high number, his food spike is a "good thing" for ths particular cycle. It doesn't mean he won't drop later, but it's a good sign. At this point, I think you can hold of on testing again until +2.

Also, you can update your subject line now to reflect the numbers your getting - that'll give a quick view of what's going on.

You're doing awesome...you've got this thing under control!
 
Re: Might have given too much!!!!!

At least you can breathe a little. It could also be a NDW effect, numbers can go wonky w/ an increase until the shed balances out.
 
Re: Might have given too much!!!!!

I just want to stop by with some hugs :YMHUG: :YMHUG: I just got over being sick and felt very foggy the whole time, so I understand where your head is at - don't feel bad! Hopefully, he just got his normal shot, but even if he didn't, with the awesome advice you got and the way you're staying on top of the situation, you will keep him safe!
 
Re: Might have given too much!!!!!

Yup, the cavalry comes out when you're nervous! So far, thinks look OK. Remember to keep your SS up to date. It also helps if numbers start dropping to put them in your subject line. That way, for those of us who are at work, we can take a quick glance to see how Simmie is doing. Hang in there.
 
am 394, +1 465

Thank you everyone for being here. And I really did need the hugs along with the advice and kindness.

Should I change the 911 to something else now? I'm not sure what I am supposed to do right now with that.

I have some pics now of Simmie with his ice bowl so I will add them to my signature line (links). Too late for the calendar but cute nonetheless!

:smile:
 
Re: Might have given too much!!!!!

I just want to add that because of the way Lantus works, you will still need to be on your toes for the next couple of cycles. Keep gathering data and posting the numbers. Extra scritches for lil Iceman :YMHUG:
 
Re: Might have given too much!!!!!

Yes, you've got several pairs of eyes watchng you now, so you can take down the 911 and update the subject line with Simmie's numbers as you get them.

Looking forward to his pictures :-D !!! It's so funny how he loves ice.
 
Re: Might have given too much!!!!!

Tara makes an excellent point......this might be a nonevent cycle but you could see some busy times in the succeeding cycles so you'll just need to monitor a little more closely after this cycle to be sure he doesn't come down.

We're all very sorry you got sick after your vacation and hope you are feeling much better now. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

We all oversleep at some point in time. It happens because we all get tired sometimes dancing with our beloved kitties. Remember that it is perfectly fine to shoot late. I've found that in many cases, shooting late doesn't affect the depot quite as much as we might think it does. While most of us don't shoot more than two hours late just because it makes it harder to get back on schedule, if you have the flexibility, it's ok to shoot as late as you need to and then adjust your time back. In general, if you shoot late, you would want to make the next shot about 12 hours from the late shot. Here is a post on Getting Back on Schedule which can help.

If it's really late (say 3-4 hours), you could also just opt to shoot an 18 hour schedule. For example, if your normal shot time is 7/7 and you oversleep or are late for any other reason (work), and can't shoot until 10, you could always elect to shoot at what would be +18 (or in this example, 1 am or pm depending on which shot you are late for, morning or evening). If you shot at +18 (1 am or pm), the next shot would be 18 hours later at the next 7 am/pm. Here is the example in a better format.
Mon: missed 7 am (+12) shot
Mon: shot at +18 (1 pm)
Tues: shoot at 7 am (normal time but +18 from the Mon 1 pm shot)

Does that make sense?
 
Re: am 394, +1 465, +3 398

Hi all!

He's starting to come down but not very fast. These high numbers are a bit unnerving too...NOT AT ALL like low numbers of course but I am wondering if I got the wrong Fancy Feast when I switched him from Tiki. I wish I could have kept him on the Tiki as he seemed to be getting somewhat close to being regulated but now he is all over the map it seems...today notwithstanding.

I'm finishing up his 'photo gallery' as we dance the dance today. I hope that all your furbabies are doing wonderfully. I think about them a lot when I post. The pictures are all so great.

He is getting a bit irritated at my poking him as he has been trying to sleep :lol: but he hasn't left my side as of yet! He is such a hug muffin!

Best to all!
 
Re: am 394, +1 465, +3 398

Good deal...keep it safe, Simmie!

One time, early on with Trix, I had to test 18 times over the course of about 5 hours. We were very new newbies, and she had just had a dental so we were being very very very cautious. Poor girl, she was a trooper through it all.
 
Re: am 394, +1 465, +3 398

ohmygod_smile OMG really?! I can't even imagining test that much - it would freak me out! Yet, if I hadn't found this board I probably would be standing over him constantly with a meter in one hand and lancet in the other! But actually, if I hadn't found this board I wouldn't have been home testing at all since it seems that most vets are clueless about the wonder of this website! Ha!

Simmie is napping, again, but one eye is partially open...I think he is aware that there is some ear poking in his near future! bcatrun_gif

Love you guys,
Lyd
 
Re: am 394, +1 465, +3 398, +5 368

Hi All,

I think I either really shot his normal 3 or his body is doing something to protect him. Think we are out of the woods?

Hugs,
Lydette
 
Re: am 394, +1 465, +3 398, +5 368

I think Ann is right but we were also new and Gracie is unpredictable......she especially was on lantus.

I'm glad that, so far, this is a non event.
 
Re: am 394, +1 465, +3 398, +5 368

Things are looking good, but I think I would continue to test every couple hours, just in case. And, as someone mentioned earlier, it is possible that if you did over-shoot, you MAY see evidence of it in the next cycle or two as well. Great job - both you and Simmie!
 
Re: am 394, +1 465, +3 398, +5 368

Hi friends,

here of course is my next question...while I will continue testing every couple of hours, what should I do when it is time for his next shot? I assume it will be based on the numbers I get over the next few hours but any ideas?

Hugs,
Lydette
 
Re: am 394, +1 465, +3 398, +5 368

What a day you have had! Great job on testing!

No advice, but just wanted to say welcome back! I was just thinking of you and Simmie the other day, hoping all was well as I hadn't seen you post in awhile. Sorry that you were sick, but hopefully you are on the mend!
 
Re: am 394, +1 465, +3 398, +5 368

How far are you from shot time? A +11 and PMPS will definitely help decide where you go. If he stays in the range that he's in, I think you're good to go with his usual dose; however I would still test a little more vigilantly than usual, since you could possibly see more action than usual in the next cycle.
 
Simmie: am 394, +1 465, +3 398, +5 368, +7 399

Hi there MollynSkooter! I've missed ya!

Amy, I am 2 hours from his shoot time (the new time based on my late shoot this morning). His numbers are still very high so I think that I must have shot his normal dose, maybe simply from force of habit even though I didn't do my normal double check. I am afraid to shoot if I have to do more testing into the night as I'm still working my way out of being sick over the past week and I am concerned I might fall asleep when Simmie might need me.

But with that said, his numbers are so very high. That food change has really screwed us up, I think....or something else might be happening.

Love to everyone. Oh, here's what I am thinking as to moving forward. Could you let me know what you think?

- Because I am unsure of what I did this morning, I'm thinking I should skip his evening dose (especially since I might not stay awake enough to check him in the wee hours)
- Tomorrow morning, return to his normal schedule with his normal dose
- Because of his high numbers as of late, double check that I bought the right Fancy Feast food and make corrections as necessary

Does this make sense?

Hugs
Lyd and Simmie
 
Re: am 394, +1 465, +3 398, +5 368

Hi Lydette!

I'm not sure we're going to have a perfect suggestion for you, because we don't really know what's going on right now. You're not certain if you gave 2u too much or not. We don't really know how low the current dose is taking him. You're not sure you can monitor tonight. I'm NOT laying any blame, just spelling out the conundrum.

In the past when people have shot too much, they've really watched the subsequent cycles as well. Here is a condo where Hershey got 2 shots at the same time. You can look at Hershey's ss for 12/30/13 when it happened.
Libby said:
Remember, Lev overdoses can take the form of extended duration as well as low numbers. That means that even if numbers start to rise after his normal nadir, they might drop again or might just stay low for a hours and hours. Don't get complacent, and don't hesitate to take him to the vet if you can't bring him up. At least it is now regular business hours, so taking him in should be more reasonable in cost.
Click to expand...

The same applies to Lantus.

If you did give an excessive amount, you might not have seen low numbers today. It doesn't mean you didn't.

Even if you don't shoot tonight, you still need to monitor.

I want to pull up some more info, but will post this now so you can see it.
 
Re: am 394, +1 465, +3 398, +5 368

Hi Lydette,

I'm glad you realised what you may have done in time to monitor him so well - you're doing a great job. If it makes you feel any better, when I was new to FDMB, I gave Angie her insulin twice! I had been sick too. I had a friend visiting, who happened to be a nurse, and she said, "um Grace, did you just give Angie insulin again?" Thank goodness she spotted it! I tested 18 times that night, didn't get to sleep at all. I had great help from FDMB too and had the emergency vets prepared just in case.

I hope the next couple of cycles are smooth for you.

Grace
 
Re: am 394, +1 465, +3 398, +5 368

What I draw from Julie's post is that what you came up with, Lydette, makes the most sense - skipping tonight, just in case you did shoot the extra 2 units this morning. And, skipping tonight will let you jump right back in at your regular shot time in the morning.

As for the Fancy Feast...one time I did buy the wrong one. I can't remember if it was "grilled" or what, but it wasn't "classic" yet the label was almost identical in color. Fortunately I did notice it was the wrong flavor before feeding it.
 
Re: am 394, +1 465, +3 398, +5 368

Here's another one - when Ebby may have accidentally gotten 2 shots instead of one:

11/9/13 Ebby condo

11/9/13 Ebby ss

Here is Melissa/Ebby's condo from a couple of days after the "event." http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=108046&hilit=overdose Jill has some comments about it that are worth revisiting:
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
hi melissa. i'm late to your question and you've probably shot already tonight so i can't suggest holding the dose, but this is also an opportunity for a teaching moment.

the last entry on ebby's ss is AM+4. what happened the rest of the day? the reason why i'm asking is so far the numbers pretty much confirm having given two PM shots on 11/09.

see here's the thing with lantus overdoses... they can manifest themselves in several ways:

  • the "extra" insulin can simply push the numbers up resulting in a non-event (too much insulin causes high numbers)
  • otoh, there's a point where too much insulin will quickly drop kitty, make it difficult to bring the numbers up throughout the cycle, as well as markedly increasing duration
  • sometimes the numbers will shoot up high, but towards the end of the cycle they'll start to drop dramatically and you'll see extended duration

when dealing with an overdose, real or imagined, i'm always rather nervous until i get a sense of how things will go. :?

i do think there's a real possibility ebby dropped lower than 48 on 11/08. this morning's 0.5u dose was only the 5th cycle on 0.75u. combine an expected bounce with a probable overdose and the most prudent thing to do is put some distance between the unusual circumstances and thoughts of an increase. protocol does not apply when the unusual circumstances aren't part of the protocol. it's better to err on the side of caution. these are the reasons both libby and i felt it was best to see if the high numbers cleared out on their own.

please monitor carefully over the next few cycles if you've increased the dose tonight. ebby can be quite the drama queen. she's demonstrated the ability to drop 200 - 300 points in the first few hours after her shot (even when her preshot number is in the 500s). :roll:
Click to expand...

I think if there is any chance you gave a double dose this morning, if it were my cat, i would risk the high numbers and i would skip the shot tonight and continue to monitor. Please read through these links i've given you - they are full of good information that will be helpful to you in figuring out what to do next.
 
My dear dear friends,

Before starting I have to say thank you again, for being here with me.

So, Simmie seems really stable and I decided NOT to give him his dose tonight. I have also decided to stay up with him, as much as possible, during this evening. I will no doubt fall asleep here and there but I think it will be ok overall. DH is on the road for work and so I can sleep on the couch. I hate not giving Simmie his juice tonight but I need to review his entire situation anyway now that I am done with my travels until next year. You should see him staring up at me right now. He can sense when I'm upset and it upsets him as well.

I've spoken to some friends and acquaintances over the course of the last 2 months about this board and your help. Most people were kind and thought this board was a wonderful thing but then there were the people, who I actually like a lot, that laughed about the 'obsession' we might have for our 'kids'. That was tough. Knowing that my Simmie/stinky/Iceman was stuck in a vet hospitable during this time made me especially mad listening to their 'jokes'.

If I could send all of you who have stayed by my side today flowers, I would do so. I can't thank you enough.
I apologize for being maudlin tonight but it's been a terrible day. Yet it is a day that has also been stunning in its beauty, because of all of you. Thank you.

Iceman is licking his new bowl of freshly crushed ice and he sends his love. I feel a bit absurd because since I have gotten involved with this group I seem to be saying "you're all wonderful, you're fabulous, I love you, etc etc" all the time but the reality is that all these complements are so true. I've yet to feel like I am a peer of the group but I will try to hold off a bit with the platitudes. I just feel a little too sugary..at least for a Jersey girl! (living in Cincy) :lol:

Quick question - do you all realize how distinct your personalities come across on this board? It is striking. With very few pics and all correspondence via posts the personality of your beings and those of your fur babies come through in an astounding way. Every time I log in I feel a genuine warmth that allows me to feel a degree of peace and confidence I have never experienced on the net.

So, I'm done chatting! Now I've got to look after Simmie. BTW, his pic gallery is almost done yet unfortunately I ran into a bit of a snag today. Though I hope tomorrow will yield a charming little album the effort will require 'mom' to be more mentally aware than she was today!!!! ~O)

If there is any emergency tonight I will post but everyone, have a well deserved nights rest and give your furbabies a huge hug from me and Simmie!

Love Lydette, Simmie, Murphy, Bud Bud the dog, and Princess Kitty Kat
 
:YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: You guys did awesome yesterday!

This board is an amazing "place" like no other. Even though most of us never meet face-to-face, we truly are a family here. We care about each other, and we worry about each other's kitties and beans (including family beans!)! It's like we've been given this amazing gift that comes along with the horrible diagnosis of FD...we're blessed with LL for loving our furbabies like we do. Some "outsiders" get it; others don't. Those who don't get it...it's their loss!

Skipping was absolutely the right choice last night, and I hope you got some good rest in, too. I can't wait to see the album!
 
it's true - you can "see" personalities on the board. :-D It's a wonderful, generous group!

i'm stalking Simmie's ss to see whether or not he got the double dose, and i'm not seeing much after the skipped shot last night. Do you have all the testing data in there or is there some still on your glucometer that needs to get added in? Enquiring minds want to know what happened next. ;-)
 
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