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Well, the pressure was on with only two test strips left, but I finally got a reading -- 203. Yea!

I need some advice. My vet gave me a no shoot number of 200, that's why I didn't give insulin this morning. She is only on .5 unit AM and PM, which is pretty tiny.

So with no insulin this morning, Dirty Butt hasn't had any for almost 24 hours and is staying at 200 and 203. I'm inclined to go no insulin tonight. What do you guys think?
 
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Sorry for the late reply. At that number, I would not shoot. That is almost in the normal healthy range. You sure don't want to give a dose and risk a hypoglycemia event.

Also I've done that trick with only 2 or 3 strips left. Now I'm stocked up.
 
FWIW, I think not shooting last night was the right decision however, the normal range for BG using the AT2 meter would be 72 to 175 (based on IDEXX lab values) so she seems to still be a bit high depending on when those readings were taken. Were the tests you did taken with no food influence (no food for prior 2 hours at least) or after food? If those tests were after food, then I'd try to get a couple of tests at times when there is no food influence and see if she falls into the normal range.

Is she still on the Clavamox? If so, I would suggest testing her for ketones just to be safe! I don't see anything about a history of ketones but if there is, then skipping insulin isn't necessarily the right decision and you might have to consider a reduced dose. I'm wondering if the infection is still at play and keeping her BG just slightly out of normal range.
 
The next time, I would try stalling when you get a number near 200. Wait 20 minutes without feeding and retest. If she is over 200 then maybe try a tiny bit of insulin. With your U40 syringes, the easiest way to give less than 0.5 would be to draw up 0.5 and let out a few drops.

Re the meter. You can continue with your AT after you get some strips or use the Free Style or get the human meter (it will be different ranges than the AT but as long as you know the levels you want to shoot, lots of people here use human meters. ) If your AT meter is a little off your vet's, it isn't a huge issue. You are looking for trends and patterns during the cycle. The important thing is that you had a no shoot number that you are comfortable with. With an ATmeter, and with her changing infection and good changes, I'd say maybe 220 or so for now. Does that sound reasonable?
 
The 200 was 6 hours after food and 12 hours from last insulin .5. The 203 was 7 hours after food and 24 hours from last insulin. I ran out of strips so I couldn't test this morning. I have an appointment at the vet in an hour, so I will get more strips and lancets and test again. Crossing my fingers and toes that it is under 200 next time.
 
Debbie I hope I caught you. DON'T buy lancets at the vet. The AT lancets are very expensive (money grab eith different packaging! ) and the lancets for the Freestyle Lite human meters are exactly the same and half the cost!
 
Help! OK, new meter strips. I set the meter with the new code, ran a control test, worked fine. I tested Dirty Butt 5 hours after she ate and got 409, was shocked so I tested again and got 364. What happened to 200? I tried to get my neighbor's AT2 meter, but he couldn't find it, so I have to wait until morning when Rene gets home. If I give Dirty Butt insulin and the numbers are not true, the nadir would be at 3:00 AM. Should I wait until morning and test again and decide the dose?
 
If you are ever unsure, do NOT give insulin. DB might be on a sugar rush. Or may be fluctuating.

With diabetes it is possible to have a spontaneous remission. So if you are not sure of the reading, it is bad practice to dose. A cat can live with high numbers for awhile. But they can't live thru a full hypoglycemia.
 
If you have time, you may want to type some recent numbers into the spreadsheet. It makes it real handy for you and others here to review history. From the view I see, the spreadsheet looks empty.
 
I haven't had time to figure out how to copy over the spreadsheet to my computer in order to update it.

I gave her a little piece of cheese this morning, but I can't see that making a difference. Maybe she found a Temptation under a chair or a few old bits of dry food on the floor of the pantry. I did see her in the pantry this afternoon. I thought I had everything picked up.

I guess I will test her in the morning, then feed her, then give her maybe the .5 of insulin like before, depending on the test number. Then watch and test later. By that time I should have Rene's meter (identical to mine) and use the same blood for both meters and see what happens. After going hypo once before, I am really scared to just jump back to 2 units.

Does that sound like a good plan?
 
Debbie, the spreadsheet is already on Google drive, so you don't need to copy it over to the computer. You can access it from the computer by signing into Google Sheets on the computer. You have to sign in on each device you are using.

The readings you got from the meter are most likely fine. Any reading can be +/- 20% of actual BG as would be measured in a lab.
409 +/- 20% would be 327 to 491
364 +/- 20% would be 291 to 436

While they may look to be miles apart and I understand why you retested after the 409 reading because it seemed unusual, the BG is constantly going up and down. and even on the same drop of blood the BG reading might be a little different. Taking the meter variance allowed into account, those readings are a lot closer to one another than you think they are.

It's possible Dirty Butt got into some contraband but if I am following correctly, she hasn't had insulin for over 24 hours. If that is correct, that's more likely the cause of the higher BG.
 
Yeah, I think your meter is okay, Debbie. I know it's worrisome, but really, the variance can cause the numbers you are seeing. In the end, we're looking more for patterns than individual numbers. If you see a weird number, it's good to retest like you did...but then assume for those random higher numbers that it could be a hairball, could be the heat, could be she saw a squirrel!

I know hypo is scary. Do you have a hypo kit put together? Having everything you need ready and in one place might help you since then you know you're ready IF it happens.
 
Debbie

Changes in numbers can occur for many different reasons without it being a meter error. Without seeing the patterns on what is happening when you test it is very hard to judge what might be happening. If you are able to put some of the data into the spreadsheet you already have set up it would be most useful to see for people to offer advice. You would just have to manually enter the preshot test you have done...put the number of units given, and enter any additional tests between shots
 
Thank you -- you guys always calm me down out of panic. Her number this morning was 347. She was down to .5 when I was getting the 200, she hypo'd on 1.5 units. So to be really conservative, I will go with just over .5 unit and see how much affect that has on her over 24 hours, then tomorrow move it up depending on her numbers. Does that sound OK?

How do I log into Google Sheets? I've kept my own records on her ever since this started 12 days ago, so all I have to do is update the sheet.
 
Debbie Gregory said:
Thank you -- you guys always calm me down out of panic. Her number this morning was 347. She was down to .5 when I was getting the 200, she hypo'd on 1.5 units. So to be really conservative, I will go with just over .5 unit and see how much affect that has on her over 24 hours, then tomorrow move it up depending on her numbers. Does that sound OK?

How do I log into Google Sheets? I've kept my own records on her ever since this started 12 days ago, so all I have to do is update the sheet.
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A conservative dosing is always best especially when you are not able to monitor a lot between cycles.

This is the link for setting up a spreadsheet:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Everyone on here uses the same format so that if dosing advice or emergency advice is ever needed the information is in a format that everyone is used to. I waited a few months when I started before setting up mine and I wish I had started it right from the beginning. I had some low numbers before I had my S/S set up and trying to give all the right information and updated information was very difficult when I needed help with the lows.

If you have any problems with setting up the S/S just ask. There are a few "spreadsheet gurus" on here that can certainly help you out. ;)
 
Debbie Gregory said:
I was sent this link last week, but I've been so stressed out about this kitty and my other sick kitty, and some other stuff. I need to get organized.
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If you want I can tag Marje and get her to set it up for you, Then all you would need to do is fill in the numbers. It is hard to do extra things when there is so much else going on. I am sorry about your other kitty being sick, at the same time as you are having to deal with Dirty Butt's new problems.


:bighug:
 
Sue was originally helping me with the spreadsheet and set it up for me in my signature. She sent me a link (different from the one above) and said I should copy it to my computer and then fill out the spreadsheet. I was never able to copy it to my computer. When I click on the spreadsheet in my signature, it is blocked, there is no access. This morning I was able to make changes to the one Sue sent to me by email -- I hope I am not making changes to the real template that everyone uses. Sue was unavailable for a day or so and we haven't reconnected.

What do AMP, PMPS, and the + numbers mean?
 
OK, I was frazzled when Sue originally sent me the email with the spreadsheet. She did explain the AMP and + numbers. What does PMPS mean?
 
AMPS is the AM Pre-shot reading, PMPS is the PM pre-shot reading.
The next column is for entering how many units of insulin were given.
Each of the 11 columns marked +1, +2 etc. are for any other readings taken during each cycle and the +1 would be a test at 1 hour after the shot, +5 would be 5 hours post shot. We stick to the number of hours post shot rather than times because we are all over the planet and this way everyone knows what's up with kitty.

I'm not sure why Sue told you to copy it to your computer other than to have a backup or be able to sync it online if you are using a copy on your PC to enter data. Have you tried signing into Google and going to Google sheets because I can see the spreadsheet there and if you are signed in you should be able to see the editable copy. You can't edit from the link in your signature because that has view only privileges because you don't want anyone else messing with your data.
 
The only access I could get was through the link in the email Sue sent me. I've tried to copy that link to somewhere safe on my computer, but no luck.
 
Debbie Gregory said:
The only access I could get was through the link in the email Sue sent me. I've tried to copy that link to somewhere safe on my computer, but no luck.
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What I did when Sue set mine up was I opened up in the link from her email, then I saved it to my favorites and put it on my favorites bar. Did you try that?
 
Rachel said:
Yeah, I think your meter is okay, Debbie. I know it's worrisome, but really, the variance can cause the numbers you are seeing. In the end, we're looking more for patterns than individual numbers. If you see a weird number, it's good to retest like you did...but then assume for those random higher numbers that it could be a hairball, could be the heat, could be she saw a squirrel!

I know hypo is scary. Do you have a hypo kit put together? Having everything you need ready and in one place might help you since then you know you're ready IF it happens.
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I have honey in the pantry. What would I need in a hypo kit?
 
I just got a little cheap toolbox and put all the stuff in it. You could do that in a shoebox or anything really...just to have it all in one place. Linda gave you the link. :) It's good to have so that you are ready just in case...and for me, it always makes me feel better to know that I've done what I can to prepare. It might help you worry a bit less.
 
WOOHOO!! I can see your spreadsheet with the numbers filled it
Debbie Gregory said:
Do you ever see kitties that need just a little insulin, such as giving it once a day in the morning?
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Since a kitty's metabolism is much faster than a human or a dog, there is no insulin that will last 24 hours in a kitty. When the doses seem too high it is best to lower the dose so that you have two shootable preshot numbers. Otherwise the insulin wears off if only doing once a day and the kitty spends a good portion of the day with no extra insulin on board.
 
Debbie, here is another tip for you for the Hypo tool kit that I found helpful. Keep your MC and HC food separate from your LC food so you do not get them mixed up. My MC and HC were is a whole another area than the LC in my kitchen.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Debbie, here is another tip for you for the Hypo tool kit that I found helpful. Keep your MC and HC food separate from your LC food so you do not get them mixed up. My MC and HC were is a whole another area than the LC in my kitchen.
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Excellent advice Bobbie. I actually use a felt pen and write the carb % on the side AND top of each can in case I mix them up. That way I don;t have to "remember" when I am in a panic.
 
I'm asking about the once a day because my kitty seems to be very sensitive to insulin. She was 347 this morning. I gave her .6 this morning, her nadir was 101 and 10 hours after insulin she is 140, so no shot tonight. I'm guessing she will be low 200's tomorrow AM, what kind of a dose would I dare give her? I guess I should talk to the vet and see if her kidney issues are messing with things.
 
Debbie Gregory said:
I'm asking about the once a day because my kitty seems to be very sensitive to insulin. She was 347 this morning. I gave her .6 this morning, her nadir was 101 and 10 hours after insulin she is 140, so no shot tonight. I'm guessing she will be low 200's tomorrow AM, what kind of a dose would I dare give her? I guess I should talk to the vet and see if her kidney issues are messing with things.
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That is a pretty low dose, but you could see what your vet thinks about shooting .3 morning and evening. With two shots a day it would cover the whole 24 hour period rather than only a portion of the day
 
Yep, as Mary Ann said, it's best to reduce the dose in this kind of situation. If you think about it, the insulin isn't lasting the whole 24 hours in your kitty. If it was, you'd have more regulated numbers. While it does give you an unshootable preshot, then you get a higher number for the next preshot. :)
 
I'm getting suspicious that the Clavamox for the UTI has been bumping her numbers up. In the last couple of days Dirty Butt has been hiding the pill in her cheek, that I thought went down, then I it find hours later. She didn't get one last night. Look at her spreadsheet. She started the Clavamox 7/28 and the vet wanted 2 weeks instead of the usual 1 week, there are 4 days of pills left. I'm going to skip the pill this morning and see what her numbers are tonight...and call the vet.
 
The UTI can be causing the bump in numbers. And if he has been hiding the pill in his cheek and not getting the dose, it could be that the AB has not had time to do it's job . It 's my understanding the Clavomox liquid has sugar and can cause higher BG's but I think the pills are okay.
 
Best not to skip the antibiotic. It's very important to finish the full course to ensure all the offending bacteria are killed off. If it has been messing with her numbers, you simply compensate with insulin. The infection itself will cause elevated BG so if she doesn't get the antibiotic you could end up creating a vicious circle.
 
The vet agreed, skip the pill and watch her numbers. She would like a urine sample to see if the infection has cleared, that will be a challenge. If she goes to the vet for it, her numbers will sky rocket. Time to start looking for a soup ladle, I guess.
 
Debbie Gregory said:
The vet agreed, skip the pill and watch her numbers. She would like a urine sample to see if the infection has cleared, that will be a challenge. If she goes to the vet for it, her numbers will sky rocket. Time to start looking for a soup ladle, I guess.
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A urine sample at this time will not show a proper result as far as the infection. When redoing a culture you need about 10 days to pass after the antibiotics are finished or the results will not be accurate. I too would agree with finishing the antibiotics. One of my kitties had a UTI and was put on 10 days at a lower dose than he should have. The UTI "seemed" to clear up but came back with a vengence and he had to be put on 3 weeks at the higher dose to finish clearing it up/
 
Wow, i'm late to the party you guys!!! Hi Debby and welcome! See you are new here :)
I see you've got already a lot of great advise on how to handle this sugardance! I will keep reading your posts!
 
Yeah, you can't get an accurate idea of if the infection cleared until she's been off ABs for 10 days. I'd wait until then to get a sample.
 
Curious, where does Sheba fall in the food category? I bought some for my old cat and he really loved it and Dirty Butt left her dish to try and sneak some off of his dish. I looked at the food chart and I didn't see Sheba on it, but I have heard it mentioned by others on this forum.
 
I feed Colin the Sheba Chicken Pate and it's fine, very similar to Fancy Feast I think, although I'm not sure of the exact carbs.
 
Not sure what's happening (believe me, I'm not complaining), but I haven't given insulin to Dirty Butt since Tuesday. I talked with the vet and she wants me to get a urine sample to make sure the UTI has cleared, but that is not going to be easy. If I walk in the room with her, she gets scared and jumps out of the box (feral kitty to the bone), so the ladle isn't going to work. The plastic beads from the vet don't seem to be realistic. I may have to bring her in to the vet and hope her bladder is full, so I don't have to leave her for them to get a sample.
 
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