Alice 11/2 AMPS yellow, shot sensitivity and still over grooming belly

AliceMeowliss (GA)

AliceMeowliss (GA)

Member Since 2019
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...halloween-home-again-amps-pmps-yellow.221139/

I need to update her SS but it’s all been yellow mostly. I’m fairly certain 1.25u isn’t enough for now but wanted to not increase back by a half unit right away. (Edit for clarity, I mean I didn’t want to jump from vacation dose 1.0 to 1.5 without spending a few cycles at 1.25... I wasn’t clear before!)

So..... today’s question: I think she must be building up some scar tissue or...? I rotate where she gets her shot so I don’t understand how scar tissue could build up? I was originally taught by my vet to switch sides and it used to be right at night, left in the morning, now it’s just whetevever I can get her comfortable for, wherever she will sit still long enough.

Also she doesn’t like me to touch her belly and she is still mowing her fur down on her belly and sides above the hips. I feel like she is not as happy. Maybe she’s not happy with me now because I am the poker. Sigh.

Hope all are well today. I finally got a few minutes to catch up a little on some posts, but mostly just a couple of the emergency situations. All our love. <3
 
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@nslade001 I noticed your signature over on your comment to Pamela and Amethyst...

Can I ask what exactly you feed? One of my suspicions is that Alice may have some IBD, maybe that is affecting her tummy and causing her to groom excessively. She eats chicken and liver friskies pate, and I know the novel protein limited ingredient low carb options can be more expensive and I can barely afford everyone’s feeding now but I would like to do a better job than this! I think she does not do well with fish and I thought the turkey and giblets stuff made her more ill too, I figure chicken is probably not the best for her either but there aren’t cheap options without fish or chicken to add bulk protein it seems like.
 
Just an FYI, if Alice has been mostly in yellow numbers, a dose increase is 0.25u, not a half unit. Remember to wait for 6 cycles before increasing!

I have an IBD kitty. One thing to keep in mind is that if you think Alice is sensitive to turkey, she's likely sensitive to any poultry (i.e., chicken and duck). One option that is likely less expensive is a raw food diet. It's what I feed Gizmo. He's doing great on ground pork and ground lamb. I order a pre-mix that contains all of the necessary supplements then freeze the food in ice cube trays and defrost what I need for the day. I use a pre-mix called EZ Complete that's made by FoodFurLife. Another option is ZiwiPeak. They have lamb and venison which are good options for novel proteins. The food is pricey but it's human grade and contains no gums or carrageenan which can contribute to IBD. ZiwiPeak is available on Chewy's and it's discounted. (Although, I'd shop around for a place where you can buy a couple of cans to make sure Alice likes it.)

 
If you find she is flinching, it could be a number of things.
1) Lantus can sting because it's slightly acidic, though that is usually most notable at higher doses.
2) Are you making sure the bevel is pointing upwards, if it's not pointing upwards the needle doesn't go in as easily and can make them flinch (I had this with George, until someone pointed it out)
3) make sure you are tenting the skin properly and not catching muscle, that can hurt if you catch the muscle.

May be worth refreshing your shooting technique, just in case there's something you can improve on.
Here's a great post by Marje
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/testing-and-shooting-tips.85113/#post-1377750
 
images
 
AliceMeowliss&Cassandra said:
@nslade001 I noticed your signature over on your comment to Pamela and Amethyst...

Can I ask what exactly you feed? One of my suspicions is that Alice may have some IBD, maybe that is affecting her tummy and causing her to groom excessively. She eats chicken and liver friskies pate, and I know the novel protein limited ingredient low carb options can be more expensive and I can barely afford everyone’s feeding now but I would like to do a better job than this! I think she does not do well with fish and I thought the turkey and giblets stuff made her more ill too, I figure chicken is probably not the best for her either but there aren’t cheap options without fish or chicken to add bulk protein it seems like.
Click to expand...

Hi Cassandra, Willow has been on a mixture of 3 types (cans) of food that have been made into a slurry...meow luau (weruva) is a fishy one with a bit higher phosphorus, we've weaned her off it, merrick limited ingredient turkey pate (which she adores, but is the highest phosphorus so she's on a very limited amount now) and Weruva TrueLuxe Glam'n'Punk which is now her main meal, and she is eating it well! Weruva is pricey, but this is (a) very low carb, yay ((b) lower phosphorus, (c) lamb and duck, which are novel proteins, and (d) quite high in calories, which is *awesome* as you don't have to feed as much, which makes it more affordable, and Willow doesn't eat large amounts, so that's great too! So I highly recommend trying the glam'n'punk :) Hope this helps, with love, Nikki
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Just an FYI, if Alice has been mostly in yellow numbers, a dose increase is 0.25u, not a half unit. Remember to wait for 6 cycles before increasing!
Click to expand...


I may have not expressed myself well. I meant before I traveled last week, she was at 1.5, but her dose was dropped to 1.0, so I didn’t want to immediately go back up to 1.5 because then that would be a half unit jump, not a quarter. That being said, I still don’t expect that holding 1.25u right now will be what works best for her. Apart from being unsure if she had a FS today, it’s been 6 cycles. And she is running high. I’ll see what happens tonight! :)

have an IBD kitty. One thing to keep in mind is that if you think Alice is sensitive to turkey, she's likely sensitive to any poultry (i.e., chicken and duck). One option that is likely less expensive is a raw food diet. It's what I feed Gizmo. He's doing great on ground pork and ground lamb. I order a pre-mix that contains all of the necessary supplements then freeze the food in ice cube trays and defrost what I need for the day. I use a pre-mix called EZ Complete that's made by FoodFurLife. Another option is ZiwiPeak. They have lamb and venison which are good options for novel proteins. The food is pricey but it's human grade and contains no gums or carrageenan which can contribute to IBD. ZiwiPeak is available on Chewy's and it's discounted. (Although, I'd shop around for a place where you can buy a couple of cans to make sure Alice likes it.)
Click to expand...

I figured it was probably bothering her too. I don’t know for sure if it is IBD, but she doesn’t seem to be 100% right, so I know I need to look at other issues beyond the diabetes and cancer.
So the raw food thing... when I started this journey and read all the Catinfo.org stuff about grinding bones in with stuff and owning a grinder, that was just too much. I don’t know how to prepare meat and haven’t eaten it in almost 2 decades, and the kitchen here is really dysfunctional currently. Is there an easier way to get the meat? I understand also need additional supplements to make sure it is a complete diet.
I also somehow didn’t think pork would be that great for them. She ate a lamb-based dry food for a few years (solid gold) but of course it still contained some sort of vegetable protein and such so I couldn’t say it was good but I didn’t think it was any harder on her.
I would try it if I could find out how to get pre-ground lamb then I could get some help mixing it! But with 40+ lbs total of cats to feed, I’m already spending a lot on just the friskies. Does the raw/homemade work out to be cheaper, or more, or less? I’m already past the reality of what I can truly afford at this time. :\ One of my ginger boys has some nonspecific allergies and probable GI issues of some sort too and I have been at a loss for how to fix everything for everyone.

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond today! :)
 
Gill & George said:
If you find she is flinching, it could be a number of things.
1) Lantus can sting because it's slightly acidic, though that is usually most notable at higher doses.
2) Are you making sure the bevel is pointing upwards, if it's not pointing upwards the needle doesn't go in as easily and can make them flinch (I had this with George, until someone pointed it out)
3) make sure you are tenting the skin properly and not catching muscle, that can hurt if you catch the muscle.

May be worth refreshing your shooting technique, just in case there's something you can improve on.
Here's a great post by Marje
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/testing-and-shooting-tips.85113/#post-1377750
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately there’s no new insight, she’s flinching and getting upset before I get to her, and getting mad that it is happening at all, both testing and shots. Right now she is purring curled up on my lap and as I was rereading all that I tried to tent and I tried to roll to really see how I have been doing it... but she snapped at me just for touching her. She’s been sensitive about her body lately everywhere it seems. :(

I could make sure I keep the bevel up properly more often. Sometimes when I am trying to shoot quickly because she is upset, I may miss that, which in the long run I know makes it harder on her. :\
 
nslade001 said:
Hi Cassandra, Willow has been on a mixture of 3 types (cans) of food that have been made into a slurry...meow luau (weruva) is a fishy one with a bit higher phosphorus, we've weaned her off it, merrick limited ingredient turkey pate (which she adores, but is the highest phosphorus so she's on a very limited amount now) and Weruva TrueLuxe Glam'n'Punk which is now her main meal, and she is eating it well! Weruva is pricey, but this is (a) very low carb, yay ((b) lower phosphorus, (c) lamb and duck, which are novel proteins, and (d) quite high in calories, which is *awesome* as you don't have to feed as much, which makes it more affordable, and Willow doesn't eat large amounts, so that's great too! So I highly recommend trying the glam'n'punk :) Hope this helps, with love, Nikki
Click to expand...

Thank you I will look into it when I can afford to try it! Early on a friend gave me some Weruva pouch things and they gave her really awful diarrhea so I stopped considering their brand for awhile, but I don’t even remember what it was she had and it could have been too much fat or liquid or something, who knows now!
 
Well, there was a time I ground the kitties' food. Fast forward to now. I buy organic, pre-ground meat for Gizmo. Pork is fine -- I've not had a problem and if you look at a lot of the canned food, even if it says it's chicken, it may have pork in it.

If another of your cats has food sensitivities, a raw diet may work for them both. I'd give serious thought to what they have typically eaten and see if you can come up with at least 2 novel proteins. Gizmo ate almost exclusively chicken and turkey. I belatedly found out that poultry is a frequent allergen. My vet told me to avoid duck, as well. This is why he eats pork and lamb. Depending on where you live, there may be ethnic groceries or butcher shops that carry game meats that have a wider variety of proteins. Most of these places will grind the meat for you if you call ahead. I pay around $7.00/pound for the ground meat. I've not priced out the pre-mix. I make a batch with 2 lbs of meat and it lasts for about 10 days.

@Marje and Gracie has done a great deal of research on raw food. She's also found several sources for novel protein. She can provide you with a wealth of information.
 
@Sienne and Gabby (GA) thank you. I will really give this some serious thought then. What about the stuff on catinfo that says you need to have the bone ground in with it and fresh marrow and blah blah?

/

I’m just... I’m worried about Alice. She is very very sensitive about her belly and the grooming is spreading to a larger area. Sigh. I felt like the vet didn’t have any helpful answers yet. I wonder if I should get her an X-ray or ultrasound or... :( ?????
I think something is bothering her. She’s never this irritable. :(
 
Just now she was sitting on my lap in bed being petted lightly, occasional small purrs, and when my hand strayed to a certain spot she said her cranky meow and moved off of me. Maybe she is in pain in that area. My anxiety brain is starting to think about her cancer and....
:nailbiting:
 
:facepalm:
AliceMeowliss&Cassandra said:
thank you. I will really give this some serious thought then. What about the stuff on catinfo that says you need to have the bone ground in with it and fresh marrow and blah blah?
Click to expand...
There are several ways to make raw food. To guarantee you have complete supplements, get a pre-mix like EZComplete or Alnutrin. They come complete with supplements and bone/calcium and some either ask you to add liver or already have dried liver in the formula. Check out http://www.rawfeedingforibdcats.org/ and their fb group: Raw Feeding for IBD Cats. You can usually buy samples of the premix before committing to a large bag.

@Bron and Sheba (GA) and I don’t use those pre-mixes. Ming won’t eat it (I’ve tried two types of premixes so far). I personally do the 80/10/10 ratio and are supplements myself. So 80% muscle meat, 10% secreting organ, and 10% bone. I add eggs, sardines, taurine, vit e, b-complex and for some batches there’s a bunch of other vitamins that the IBD group suggests/requires for you to meet AAFCO. But I’ve just come to my own personal decision to make my recipe that way (after lots of research and debate). So far so good.

I also don’t grind his food. I just cut it in chunks and he eats it. He won’t really eat bone though so I use eggshell and once in a while, leave a small wing tip but he wont eat it sometimes. :facepalm: Picky little bugger.
 
Hi Cassandra
I feed my cats a raw diet. I also fed Sheba a raw diet as well although I cooked the chicken because raw chicken didn't agree with her but cooked was fine.
With my current cats I feed an 80% muscle meat, 10% bone and 10% secreting organ raw diet
I find it is cheaper than buying canned food, and depending on what meats you buy it can be a lot cheaper.

I only buy human grade meat which is very fresh and I cut it up into portions straight away and freeze it. I get the food out each night for the next day and it defrosts in the fridge.
The muscle meats I use are beef, lamb, chicken, turkey, pork, chicken giblets ( you may call them something else), chicken hearts.
I don't grind the food but cut it up. It's no trouble.
For the 10% secreting organs I use 5% chicken or lamb liver (you must give 5 % liver) and 5% lamb kidney.
For the bone I use chicken wings, chicken necks or chicken frames.
One of the cats can't eat bone so I use egg shell powder which I make myself...it's very easy and takes 5 nimutes.

I also feed canned sardines once a week for omega 3, and a raw egg yoke once a week for vitamins and minerals
I also add some taurine and vitamin E
I don't add vitamin B because there is enough B in the egg yoke and the meats.

If you want to know more I'm happy to help you.
 
I'm not as ambitious as Crista or Bron!

Did the vet give a trial of antihistamines? Gabby went through a season where she was licking her belly and we thought it was seasonal allergy. This is the info from my then vet:
There are several options—there is a product called Allerderm which is applied once weekly to the skin which can be quite helpful for itchy or dry skin. Additional fish oil omega-3 fatty acids, 200-250 mg daily, are often helpful, but may take up to 2 weeks to really have an effect. Antihistamines are often helpful—we seem to have the best success with Zyrtec, which is over-the-counter, or hydroxyzine which is a prescription medication.

We have Allerderm here, but you may be able to order it online. Zyrtec dosage is ½ of a 10 mg tablet by mouth (in food…) twice daily, or about every 12 hours, try for 7 days. Watch for drowsiness or restlessness, although side effects from Zyrtec are not likely or are very mild. Use plain Zyrtec, or cetirizine, only—no combo meds. The fish oil product we use is AllerG3, or you can use human products
Click to expand...
 
I agree with Sienne: Crista, Bron, all my admiration but that is much more ambitious that I have the “spoons” for right now as I have some fatigue, pain, and cognitive issues some days.

I also can’t imagine cutting raw chunks of meat. I probably never ever have!

Sienne, I haven’t tried an allergy medicine with Alice. I have tried on my own to give my excessively-grooming ginger civvie allergy medicine but he runs away, resists, fights, or throws up. I hate just blindly trying medicines on Alice though because there’s just so much wrong already.

Thanks for everyone answering some questions for me. :)

I will spend time browsing the IBD kitty website today.
 
The omega-3 is a healthy supplement and is in a lot of cat food. It's what I eventually used with Gabby. As long as your kitty is not sensitive to fish, it's fine. Nordic Naturals is an excellent brand of omega-3 for humans and they make a line that's for pets (the eye dropper is calibrated for small animals).
 
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