Afternoon nadir is 64... time for an insulin reduction?

Lewie did great with only 1.5U last night and at +11.30 he is at 310.
I'm going to give 1.5U this morning and see how he does.
Note: I'm giving his shot 15 minutes early so I can inch back to a better schedule.
 
Ouch. Was hoping he wouldn't be quite that high.

I'm really really glad that you got a solid night's sleep. Also glad that you're able to get back on schedule again.
 
Yeah, I was truly hoping for a blue or yellow score but I guess relieved that it wasn't higher. Funny, I woke up at 4am but made myself go back to sleep.
I'm thinking 1.5U was too low for this morning... I'll check at +5 and +8 and then decide if I need to go higher.
I can't tell if he needs more overnight and less during the day.
 
Last edited:
I just tested Lewie at +5 and he is at 75... much lower than I anticipated so... 1.5U *was* correct... unless he needs more at night and less during the day? Is that possible? I typically feed him twice in the morning but he was sleeping so soundly that I didn't wake him for his 2nd breakfast. I don't know if only 1 breakfast attributed to this low number or not. I will feed him now since he woke up hungry and then test at +8.
 
Last edited:
Good catch on the 75. And that's why we test. Data really is your friend and will help guide you.

Lewie was just barely in the pink this AM so although higher than we were hoping, at least going with a lower dose last night wasn't a total train wreck. I'm glad you got some sleep.

I'll be curious how the rest of the cycle pans out.
 
Sorry, didn't mean to ignore your question...
Kathy4Lewie said:
... unless he needs more at night and less during the day? Is that possible?
Click to expand...
It's possible, but more typically if there's variability, we tend to see them go lower at night. Try not to write too much into it just yet.

When you were checking throughout the night the past few days, were you feeding at all?
 
On 9/26 I did give 3 Tablespoons at PM+5 when he was at 70 because I thought it was so low.
Question: when you look at Lewie's spreadsheet on your desktop/laptop, if you hover over the individual cells... can you see the comments that I add the cells? Not the comments in column AB, but in the individual cells? I've been adding those mainly for my benefit but I see now that they can help you, too.
 
Hmm, I can't see any comments in the cells. I know there is a way to do it...I've seen the comments in some people's SS, but I can't recall how to do it offhand. When is the last comment you added? Maybe I'm just missing it.
 
I've tried to Google it... maybe right click on the "Sheet 1" tab at the bottom left and then click "View Comments"...
 
Ok... I just tested Lewie at +12 and he is at 141... so we are stalling again tonight.
In reviewing JL and Chip's reply when I thought I didn't give enough last night I read "we tend to see them go lower at night" so I'm currently thinking 1.5U will be still good even though he was a little high this morning
To recap, I skipped yesterday's AM shot, PM shot was given at 10pm Central.
This morning AMPS = 310, AM shot was give at 9:45am Central, 9:45pm +12=141
Thanks!
 
Last edited:
I'm about to fall asleep, so I'll just try to give a few options in case you haven't yet.
1) it would probably be okay if you skip. I know you're trying to get back on schedule, and stalling doesn't exactly help with that. He may be high in the morning, but as you saw today, he seems to handle that pretty well.
2) you could give 1.25u, but I'm afraid you'll end up with a long night unless he has risen a fair amount while you've been stalling. 1.5u was okay during the day, but it still left you with a low PMPS, so it ws a little too much at this point.
3) you could give a much smaller dose like 50% of normal, and go down to 0.75u. Again, could be a bit high in the morning, but I don't think you need to worry too much about that at this point.

Honestly if it was me and he hasn't risen, I might just skip and go to sleep.
 
Djamila said:
Did you already shoot? I'm just seeing this but it looks like you posted an hour ago....?
Click to expand...
No, I haven’t shot yet.
Djamila said:
I'm about to fall asleep, so I'll just try to give a few options in case you haven't yet.
1) it would probably be okay if you skip. I know you're trying to get back on schedule, and stalling doesn't exactly help with that. He may be high in the morning, but as you saw today, he seems to handle that pretty well.
2) you could give 1.25u, but I'm afraid you'll end up with a long night unless he has risen a fair amount while you've been stalling. 1.5u was okay during the day, but it still left you with a low PMPS, so it ws a little too much at this point.
3) you could give a much smaller dose like 50% of normal, and go down to 0.75u. Again, could be a bit high in the morning, but I don't think you need to worry too much about that at this point.

Honestly if it was me and he hasn't risen, I might just skip and go to sleep.
Click to expand...
I need to feed him and give him his pills so I’ll probably need to give him some kind of dose. I’ll go test him now.
 
Kathy, I'll be around if you want to bounce your thoughts off someone, but Djamila laid out the options pretty well.
 
Last edited:
JL and Chip said:
Kathy, I'll be around if you want to bounce your thoughts off someone, but Djamila laid out the options pretty well.
Click to expand...
Thank you! I just tested at +13.45 (11:30pm Central) and he is at 254. That's safe shooting range AND I just fed him his 2nd dinner and he was VERY hungry so I'm sure he will eat everything.
I'm kinda thinking to give him 1.25U.
What do you think at this point?
 
Lewie's BG has gone up noticeably during the two-hour stall so he's definitely shootable. I think I would go with 1.25u as you suggested and see where he's at around +5 for good measure (it's probably not critical to get in a test but I'd want to know what happened rather than speculate).
 
JL and Chip said:
Lewie's BG has gone up noticeably during the two-hour stall so he's definitely shootable. I think I would go with 1.25u as you suggested and see where he's at around +5 for good measure (it's probably not critical to get in a test but I'd want to know what happened rather than speculate).
Click to expand...
I just gave him the 1.25U and will test at +5.
Thank you so much for being around tonight! :)
 
I'm not sure if I'm misreading this Kathy, but remember that if you ever DO skip a shot, you go ahead and feed them normally then. :)
 
JL and Chip said:
Great number! Hopefully he'll hang around that zone for the rest of the cycle. I'll be curious what he has for an AMPS.
Click to expand...
lol... I replied to your message this morning but was doing it from my phone half asleep and I forgot to hit post. Thank you for your reply so early this morning because it gave me confidence to go back to sleep! :)
 
Rachel said:
I'm not sure if I'm misreading this Kathy, but remember that if you ever DO skip a shot, you go ahead and feed them normally then. :)
Click to expand...
Thank you Rachel. I ended up giving his shot at midnight so I didn't have to skip. Yay. I was unsure how feeding him so late and giving his shot so late would affect his overnight BG levels... he did good!
 
I fed Lewie his 2nd breakfast and gave him his pills in 1/2 pill pocket at +10 (10am Central).
I just tested him at +11.45 (11:45 Central) and he is at 363. (not the full 2 hours after feeding rule; short by 15 minutes)
I don't know if the food still has him high.
Since I keep having to stall at night, I wonder what dose you think I should give now. The 1.25U dose last night was the first of this dose.
Should I give 1.25 again or go down to 1.0? I'm kinda thinking 1.0U looking at his low value yesterday of 75 at +5.
:bookworm: Thoughts?
 
I think if it was me, I'd go with 1.25 again today. It gave you a shootable preshot this morning and while he went down to green on it last night, it was a nice, safe green. And since he's higher this morning than last night, it should be more than safe to give it.
 
Rachel said:
I think if it was me, I'd go with 1.25 again today. It gave you a shootable preshot this morning and while he went down to green on it last night, it was a nice, safe green. And since he's higher this morning than last night, it should be more than safe to give it.
Click to expand...
I just tested again... 20 minutes later and he is 306. Thoughts?
 
I'd still be tempted to give 1.25. It's still much higher than last night and the second breakfast probably hasn't hit him yet. HOWEVER...as we say here, you hold the syringe. You have to be comfortable with the dose. If you think 1 is better, go with that. Remember that I'm not there and I can't know Lewie like you do. I don't want you to feel uncomfortable with what I suggest. It doesn't offend me if you choose to do something different, because Lewie is your cat and I really believe in mama sense...sometimes we just know things about our cats without knowing why. If you think 1 is best, go with 1 and we'll see what happens. :)
 
Rachel said:
I'd still be tempted to give 1.25. It's still much higher than last night and the second breakfast probably hasn't hit him yet. HOWEVER...as we say here, you hold the syringe. You have to be comfortable with the dose. If you think 1 is better, go with that. Remember that I'm not there and I can't know Lewie like you do. I don't want you to feel uncomfortable with what I suggest. It doesn't offend me if you choose to do something different, because Lewie is your cat and I really believe in mama sense...sometimes we just know things about our cats without knowing why. If you think 1 is best, go with 1 and we'll see what happens. :)
Click to expand...
Ok. I'm going to try mama sense and give him 1U just so his shot doesn't turn into 1am shot time. :eek: I'll test him early at +11 tonight. I have the 1 hour window with ProZinc so if his number is getting too high I can shot early? I hope my understanding is correct... without causing the small overlap as was discussed earlier in this thread.
 
Last edited:
Yes, if he's at a typical PMPS number, you can shoot early. You've got the earlier number which will serve to verify that he's high enough and rising. Changing the dosing times around isn't ideal, but when the kitty is dancing to his own music, you just have to do the best you can do.
 
Djamila said:
when the kitty is dancing to his own music
Click to expand...
Lewie has always been a very unique fella.:cat: I've never met a cat which so much charisma. I had a thrift store years ago and people would stop in just to visit him. Once a group of young girls from ages 6 to about 9 were all sitting in a circle on the floor. I was wondering if they were reading... or playing a game... neither... Lewie was in the middle and they were talking to him!
:)
 
So my mama sense was off and at +10 he is already at 277. Can I shoot a whole hour early at +11? Or should I wait until +11.30 so there isn't any overlap?
Also, I'm thinking 1.25U will be his dose?
Thoughts?
 
I don't think your mama sense was off at all. It was good to see what 1u would do.

As for the 277 at +10, when did Lewie last eat? I'm curious whether that's a food influenced number (I haven't found a way to see your cell notes so have only the notes from the far right col as well as whatever you note in the individual hourly cells). Is it correct that he last ate at +7?

If you're considering shooting an hour early, I'd test again at +11 and see where his BG is at that point. If it's higher than 277 with no additional food on board, and if you're wanting to accelerate getting back to your preferred shot schedule, then I'd certainly consider doing it. Just keep in mind that an early shot can act like a slight dose increase. I might go with 1u tonight under those circumstances to err on the side of caution. If his BG is notably higher at +11, maybe 1.25u, but you caught him in the 80s overnight last night on 1.25u so that combined with shooting early is a judgement call.

As for the higher numbers at AMPS ... I wonder if that might be partly due to feeding him breakfast late in his previous cycle (PM +10) when the last insulin shot was waning. I would be very interested in what his BG was just before you fed him compared to where he was at AMPS. As he's honing in on an ideal dose, this late-cycle feedings might have more impact.

I just saw that Djamila posted while I was typing, which is great. Follow your instincts ... I'll try to be around later if you need anything.
 
I see what you mean about feeding him breakfast late in the previous cycle so tomorrow I will get a reading before I feed him breakfast.
Tonight... for the 277 at +10, he ate at +7.30 (7:30pm Central) so I waited 2.5 hours before I tested.
When I tested at +10 I fed him again. I fed Fancy Feast 1g carb food.
I tested at +11 and he has dropped to 225. I expected the food to raise his BG but as previously discussed in this thread, it CAN cause a drop.
So it sounds like I need to wait until closer to +12 to determine dose. I was wanting to give him his subq fluids tonight and I think that will lower his BG down a little, too? Maybe I should wait on the fluids until tomorrow? He's a bit dehydrated.
 
Last edited:
If he needs fluids, then I'd certainly give them tonight. Yes fluids can lower BG a bit, but hydration status trumps minor concerns about BG impact.

Truthfully, I'd shoot 1u and call it a night. If you wake up or are concerned, I'd grab a midcycle check because he did drop rather than go up between +10 and +11. I'm all about collecting data but you do need to sleep! If you're more comfortable with 0.75, by all means that's reasonable too. I'll poke my head back in later to check on you guys...
 
I tested at +12=252
He just drank/ate a wet sloppy bowl of food so I'm going to wait to give fluids until the morning.
I will give him 1U tonight and call it a night.
 
Yeah it looks like 1 unit definitely wasn't enough yesterday. If he's at all comparable to where he's been the last few days I would give 1.25 today.
 
Yes, with meter variance those three yellows are all basically the same number.

Also in regard to the note on your spreadsheet, remember that JL and Marje clarified that JL didn't mean to say that the food drops the number. It's that the pancreas, if it is kicking out insulin, may lower the BG after eating.

And as another point for clarification:
JL and Chip said:
Just keep in mind that an early shot can act like a slight dose increase.
Click to expand...
This is true for the depot insulins, but we only see this effect with Prozinc when a cat is on higher doses. While Prozinc does have some overlap when dosed well, it does not have a depot, so you can, if the numbers allow it, shoot up to an hour early without acting like a dose increase.
 
Thank you so much for clarifying this information for me.
I messed up :banghead: and fed him at +10 when I am wanting to shoot at +11. If I test at +11 and he is at a shootable range, can I give the shot? This does NOT follow the 2 hour rule.

At this point in time, I'm expecting to give a dose of 1.25U based on the last 24 hours.
 
Last edited:
I tested at +8 because that was his real breakfast with pills. +8=319
When I started giving the fluids, I gave him more food to distract him... wasn't thinking. So no, I didn't get a number at +10.
I just tested at 45 prior to +12 and he is 339 so I think I'll give 1.25U.
 
Last edited:
I think you’d be fine to shoot if he’s high enough. Just keep an eye on him to make sure he doesn’t start dropping fast.
 
I’d check at +2 (from when you shoot). That’s usually a good indicator of an active cycle.
 
Oh boy... I tested Lewie at +2.5 and he is at 190... down from AMPS of 339. I'm guessing the 190 is considered "significantly" lower than the AMPS of 339, so that means he will have an active cycle with the risk of going too low. I'll test him at +4 to see where he is.
So just moving his shot up 40 minutes throws him into an active cycle?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top