Advice with my Simba/Levels high this week

Status
Not open for further replies.
Winni

Winni

Member Since 2011
My Simba is ten yrs old, was diagnosed on 4/25/2011 - Had a 2nd opinion 5/2011 for his diabetes. I took away dry food after 2nd opinion and levels dropped. Last dosage of insulin was 6/29/11. Simba had 9 teeth pulled on 7/5/11 by the 2nd opinion vet.

After his last insulin dosage in June of 2011, Simba has been running in the 80's/90's and low 100's. I went back to dry food (just a little) during the day while I'm at work and I would take it away at night. His levels would drop as soon as I took away dry food. Keep in mind even thou he was getting some dry food during the day, his levels ran good for one year with no insulin and eating a little of dry (Welness Core) food.

This week, 7/8/12 - Simba has been running in the 200's - Which is extremely high for him
Sunday 7/8 - 258
Wed 7/11 - 200
Thurs 7/12 - 228

I completely took away dry food on Sunday night, he's been on wet food all week (Classic Fanc Feast) and this morning he's 228. Usually when I take away the dry food his levels drop. Simba is not drinking water like he use to when first diagnosed. His urine is fine and he's playing like a kitten.

My question is; should I give him insulin with these levels ? - He use to get 2 units when first diagnosed. I think 2 u would be a lot for these levesl. I made an appt w/vet for 7/18. I would hate to go back to insulin, and I hope it does not come to that.
 
What insulin? I ask, because with ProZinc for example, it is fairly easy to give a drop and watch the levels carefully, giving another drop when he rises,often later than the normal 12/12 schedule. It could be harder with the shed insulins.

Unfortunately some cats can not tolerate any a few bites of dry food without their bg levels rising. That's why we say they are diet regulated and that once a diabetic, always a diabetic. I would completely cut out the dry - not a piece or treat given - and watch carefully for a few more cycles. See if you can feed a lower carb wet (if you are feeding 8%, see if you can feed 4% for example)
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
What insulin? I ask, because with ProZinc for example, it is fairly easy to give a drop and watch the levels carefully, giving another drop when he rises,often later than the normal 12/12 schedule. It could be harder with the shed insulins.

Unfortunately some cats can not tolerate any a few bites of dry food without their bg levels rising. That's why we say they are diet regulated and that once a diabetic, always a diabetic. I would completely cut out the dry - not a piece or treat given - and watch carefully for a few more cycles. See if you can feed a lower carb wet (if you are feeding 8%, see if you can feed 4% for example)
Click to expand...
********************************************************************************************Thank you so much for answering*******
Yes, ProZinc is what he use to get which I still have some from last yr. It expires this Nov. You said not a piece of dry food or treat ? - He's been getting those chicken freezer treats which he loves to death. He is on a low carb wet foot, Class Fanc Feast. I wonder if those chicken freezer treats are making him high ? - I would hate to take that away from him. He actually goes to the kitchen cabinet and waits there until I give him a few.

With these levels in the 200's you think I should give him a drop of ProZinc ?
 
What is the name of the treat and the ingredients?

I would get some midcycle numbers first, before giving any insulin, so you know exactly what is happening. Do you have U100 needles and the conversion chart?
 
Yes, I do have U100 needles. I do keep a log with his B/G levels. The treats are "PureBites Freeze Dried Treats" - Simba could live off of this if this was his only meal.
 
The Purebites treats don't have to be refrigerated or in the freezer. My cat loves them too. The shrimp are the only ones that aren't a USA product.
The shrimp come from the " Indian Ocean" and as all seafood is getting more and more suspect with contamination levels rising, you probably want to get
some of the Purebites chicken.
All Purebites are pure protein. No carbs at all so its not the treat you are giving.

I hunt them down on google shopping and buy bulk to get them for 2.19 each.
 
I hunt them down on google shopping and buy bulk to get them for 2.19 each. WOW - Great idea. I'm at Petco once every two weeks buying these treats. Sometimes I call ahead of time b/c they run out all the time. I'm glad some of you don't think its the treats "Purebites Freeze Dried Treats" and yes, I give him chicken. They actually just came out w/Turkey.

I'm getting upset now cause I don't now why he's high this week - My husband is blaming me cause I feed him, but I tell you its not easy feeding two cats - One diabetic and the other is not. I've been freezing the small cans of Class Fanc Feast wet food in the early a.m. and take it out of the freezer before going to work. I just don't know who's eating what since I have two cats and work from 7am until 6pm. It's so difficult having two pets when one is sick. They both are getting about 3-4 cans a day this week since Simba is running high.

If Simba is eating too much wet food, I assume his levels would go high ?
 
I wouldn't think so unless he is eating higher carb. You want him to eat the classic, not the gravy kinds. Sometimes cats who really are overeating can run a little higher, but 3-4 cans split between 2 cats sounds about right.

The other thing that can raise bg levels is any kind of an infection. No sign of a UTI or teeth problems returning?
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I wouldn't think so unless he is eating higher carb. You want him to eat the classic, not the gravy kinds. Sometimes cats who really are overeating can run a little higher, but 3-4 cans split between 2 cats sounds about right.

The other thing that can raise bg levels is any kind of an infection. No sign of a UTI or teeth problems returning?
Click to expand...
**************************************************************************************************************
Thank you all for the info. He only eats the Class Fanc Feast. I'm just worried that I took away the dry food this week and he's still high. It's been a year and he's been doing so well.

I was worried 3-4 cans a day was not enough between two cats, but I'm glad you think it is. I'm done with the damn dry food, this is a drug for diabetic cats. I don't think its an UTI since his urine seems fine, not urinating a lot. That would suck if he has another infection with his teeth. The poor little guy had 9 removed. I don't think he has many teeth left. Simba will be going to the Vet on 7/18 to check this out. Thank you all.
 
Feeding dry food, even the lower carb dry food, can knock them out of remission over time. Some cats are very sensitive to the source of carbs and need less than 7-8% carbs to remain in remission. Bandit cannot eat the 8% carb EVO dry food or it causes his blood sugar to gradually rise by 100-200 points. All carbs are also not created equal--dry food must use some kind of starch to bind it together, even if it's lower carb, and these starches negatively effect BG. Your cat's pancreas likely was handling the higher carb load for some time, but eventually just couldn't handle it anymore.

However, it's likely he'll go back into remission once you remove the dry food (for good this time!) and do a short round of insulin therapy, if needed. I wouldn't wait more than a week to start insulin if he's still giving you mostly numbers above 180. The less he hangs out in high numbers, the easier it will be to get him back into remission.
 
Julia & Bandit said:
Feeding dry food, even the lower carb dry food, can knock them out of remission over time. Some cats are very sensitive to the source of carbs and need less than 7-8% carbs to remain in remission. Bandit cannot eat the 8% carb EVO dry food or it causes his blood sugar to gradually rise by 100-200 points. All carbs are also not created equal--dry food must use some kind of starch to bind it together, even if it's lower carb, and these starches negatively effect BG. Your cat's pancreas likely was handling the higher carb load for some time, but eventually just couldn't handle it anymore.

However, it's likely he'll go back into remission once you remove the dry food (for good this time!) and do a short round of insulin therapy, if needed. I wouldn't wait more than a week to start insulin if he's still giving you mostly numbers above 180. The less he hangs out in high numbers, the easier it will be to get him back into remission.
Click to expand...
***************************************************************************************************************************************************
Your post makes so much sense. Yes, the hell with the dry food. It is so important that diabetic cats Do NOT get dry food. I for one was not too convinced, but I learned my lesson. I'm not trying to harm my Simba. My problem is I go away on weekends and leave him home with dry food. I feel awful.
 
When I go away, I leave frozen food in the feeder for the first day and then have someone come in and set up the feeder for the next day. That gets me through the weekend with only one pet sitting cost.

This won't work until you get him in remission again.
 
Good news: Simba B/G was 163 last night. It took a while for his levels to drop from Sunday which has not been an issue for one yr now, but like Julia said his pancreas probably can't take the carbs anymore w/dry food.

I was going away tomorrow morning for the weekend, but I can't leave frozen wet food for both cats. My husband thinks if I leave the dry food just for one day Simba may not go up that much/take it away on Sunday and continue w/wet food for the week, but I'm afraid of doing this; therefore I'm going to cancel my plans. I'm not sure if an automatic feeder would work for both my cats w/wet food for weekends. The hardest thing for me is having two cats and one who is diabetic. The feeding process is so complicated.
 
That's a better number! It must be hard to give up a weekend away (we all need them!) but yes, you have a limited window to try to get him back into remission. One weekend with dry food could close the window. Can someone come in and feed them wet low carb while you are gone?

Just for reference, we say a cat is in remission if they range from 40-120 without insulin, with the majority of the time spent in double digits. He is getting closer!
 
Gosh my Simba's levels are all over the place. In the 200's last week - Thurs 7/12 went down to 163. Last inuslin dosage was June of 2011. He's been stable up until now.
*******************************************************************************************************************************************
Sat 7/14 was 231 in the a.m. - gave him 1 u of ProZinc
Sat 7/14 was 280 in the a.m. 1/2hr after ProZinc-
Sat 7/14 was 233 in the p.m. - gave him 1 u

Sund 7/15 300 at 3:45am
Sund 7/15 260 at 7:45am - increased insulin to 2 units. I will prick him again at 12noon to see if he dropped.

Has Vet appt tomorrow morn 7/16

Any thoughts anyone ? - I feel awful cause I'm pircking him so much, is it harmful ?
 
Pricking him is the way to keep him safe, Winni.

Can't tell much from your numbers yet. The most important indicator is the nadir number - about 6 hours after the shot. That tells us how the low the dose took him. Your number 1/2 hour after the shot won't tell you much - the insulin may not kick in until around +2 and usually that first hour, the food increases the number. Two units at 260 is a pretty agressive dose when you don't have any data to see how he might react. I would watch him today.

I would be really careful increasing the insulin without having nadir numbers. His preshot numbers are fine, in regulated ranges. I am glad you are getting a midcycle number today.

Here is a lot of info about PZI (too much but very informative) http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799

It would be very helpful if you could set up a spreadsheet. Then when you need dosing help, we have a quick picture of your doses and numbers. Here are the directions:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207 If you need help, just ask.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top