Advice please - skeptical of vet

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Trust me, Diana, you are more of an expert than I am! I've never used Caninsulin, and I haven't been around long enough to see a lot of examples of dosing strategies for this insulin. Beyond the very basics of short-term safety (that 97 yesterday worried me!), I am hesitant to make suggestions on longer-term strategy.

Matthew, I think it's a really good plan to keep collecting data for a while. You are monitoring, so you'll be able to keep Timmy safe, and you'll gain a lot of good information about what is going on with him. You're doing great!
 
Here is a foody question.

I usually feed him "sliced chicken", prebought from Tesco. Its always been his favourite over say - a cut up chicken breast. Just checking the packaging, I see it contains 0.3g of sugar per 100grams.

Is feeding him this bad? Should I be just using plain chicken breast or is 0.3g per 100g an insignificant amount?
 
Pretty sure you're OK with that. We usually go by %calories from carbs, and try to keep it under 10%. Can't do the calculation without all of the macronutrient data, but I cannot imagine how you could get above 10% with 0.3g per 100g!
 
Thanks guys, the help and knowledge so far on here has been amazing. His levels havent come close to 97 today, curious as to why they where so low yesterday. A few days testing should tell the real story.
 
Matthew Brennan said:
Thanks guys, the help and knowledge so far on here has been amazing. His levels havent come close to 97 today, curious as to why they where so low yesterday. A few days testing should tell the real story.
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his preshot yesterday was probably lower.
 
His green and blue numbers from yesterday are probably causing some bouncing. I do have to wonder if his unbalanced diet is playing a part. Timmy just eats plain Chicken, correct?

Written by Kris & Teasel:
Here's how bouncing works:
  1. BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
  2. Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
  3. Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
  4. These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
  5. Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
  6. Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode. That's why we worry so much about kitties that have had too high a starting dose prescribed by the vet and the owner isn't home testing.
  7. Many vets have little/no understanding of the bouncing phenomenon.
 
Burning through my strips, and dont get the next delivery of them until Tuesday doh - so 2 hours testing it off. Its going to be preshot +6 testing for the next few days.

Timmy just eats plain chicken yes. I tend to feed him small amounts when he is looking these days. 3 times a day and I find he is very hungry between feeds. In terms of working out if he is bouncing or not, should I keep him on the same dose for a few days and monitor?
 
He's hungry for at least 1 reason, the other is just my suspicion.
1. Uncontrolled diabetes. His body is literally starving and not able to properly absorb nutrients from food.
*Just my opinion* 2. He's not really getting proper nutrients anyway even when his diabetes gets under better control.

Usually with bouncing you want to hold the dose, unless there's an obvious need to change it. Like being much lower for pre-shot. Since you were recommended to lower to 3.0U, hold that dose.

If I offended you in anyway about his diet it is not my intention, and I tried to say it as politely as I can, then you can feel free to ask that I not respond to your postings anymore. :) I am aware I can be a little bold at times.
 
Yong is right, uncontrolled diabetes does make a cat hungry all the time. Feeding three times a day may not be sufficient - many people leave food out pretty much all the time to allow their cat to graze. And as I think I said yesterday, chicken on its own is not a "complete" diet so ideally I would think about adding in some good-quality commercial cat food that does contain essential nutrients. The best I've found, and the nearest to what we recognise as flakes of cooked chicken, is the Sainsbury's Delicious range... if you can get hold of that (it is sold in boxes of six pouches) you can mix a little with some of Timmy's preferred plain chicken at each meal and try to get him used to that so he is at least getting a more balanced diet.

It's a shame you're running out of strips as that means the plan to monitor / collect data isn't going to be quite the same. You could really do with some tests in the early part of the cycle. Do you know any human diabetics with a meter (and strips) that you could borrow for the weekend? A human meter reads slightly differently to a pet one but you would at least have an approximate idea of what's going on.

As Yong also says, feel free to disregard what any of us say if you wish... We all have our own opinions based on personal experiences and learning, but at the end of the day we have to do what feels right for our own cats. Trust your gut. What we all have in common is a wish for a better quality of life for all the kitties whose owners come to this board looking for support, but if you're not comfortable with what any of us are suggesting, that's fine. You're on a steep learning curve but you have great commitment and that's half the battle. Anyway, if you could keep your ss up to date we will be able to see what's going on.
 
Yong is right, if all you're feeding is cooked chicken without proper supplements, Timmy is not getting all the nutrients he needs to be healthy. If you're doing this temporarily because that's all he'll eat, then you need to start offering and even assist feeding him some proper food, that contains all the vitamins and minerals that cats need, such as taurine.
 
Are there any powders or oils available to add to food to allow him to get the nutrients needed? If he even smells or sees anything in his chicken that is not the chicken he knows and loves, he will walk away from it and not eat it.
 
Matthew Brennan said:
Are there any powders or oils available to add to food to allow him to get the nutrients needed? If he even smells or sees anything in his chicken that is not the chicken he knows and loves, he will walk away from it and not eat it.
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Try offering fancy feast purely. (You can probably find it cheaper in the store). Fancy Feast Appetizers Natural White Meat Chicken Cat Food, 2-Ounce Pouch, Pack of 10 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005OPQKN2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_LrukzbQAJ8Z4B

Maybe a product like this could be used to add to the food. Call the company and talk to them.... They have excellent costumer service.
http://www.youngagainpetfood.com/phone/carnivoreraw-with-calcium.html
 
JanetNJ said:
Try offering fancy feast purely. (You can probably find it cheaper in the store). Fancy Feast Appetizers Natural White Meat Chicken Cat Food, 2-Ounce Pouch, Pack of 10 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005OPQKN2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_LrukzbQAJ8Z4B

Maybe a product like this could be used to add to the food. Call the company and talk to them.... They have excellent costumer service.
http://www.youngagainpetfood.com/phone/carnivoreraw-with-calcium.html
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Matthew is in the UK.
I have asked one of our UK members who is knowledgeable about supplements etc to look in.
 
Worst case of he tastes supplements and won't eat, maybe you can get a caplet of a vitamin of some sort in him.
 
Great news. Went and bought a "cat supplement paste" today which has all the vitamins and nutrients he needs in it, but I also bought some "chicken breast" flavoured cat food flakes.. and he loves it. So hopefully the paste wont be required. If he keeps eating this new cat food then that should definitely help his diet.
 
Very glad to hear you've found a new food that Timmy likes, Matthew. What brand is it? Is it definitely a complete food and not a complementary food? Just to be sure... there are so many cat foods available these days! Hopefully it is complete and Timmy will certainly be getting better nutrition. You can still give him pieces of cooked chicken as snacks or treats after BG tests (try to do that).

I'm concerned though to see the high numbers during Timmy's cycle today and have just asked someone I know who is very experienced in these things but doesn't come to the board much... she feels it's possible that these high numbers are bounces. We've mentioned this as a possibility on this thread as well as the possibility of Timmy being a big gulper. As you've been giving Timmy 4u for a while now and recent tests show that it's not his ideal dose, I really would consider dropping the dose now and see if that helps. If you try 3u you should still see a drop but perhaps less of a climb, so that might give us a clue. No guarantees. But it could be a step in the right direction. 3u would still be a higher than average dose for most cats and may or may not be right for Timmy. A lower dose might be better... but we don't know without more data... nobody knows. As I keep saying (sorry) it's trial and error.
 
Matthew Brennan said:
Great news. Went and bought a "cat supplement paste" today which has all the vitamins and nutrients he needs in it, but I also bought some "chicken breast" flavoured cat food flakes.. and he loves it. So hopefully the paste wont be required. If he keeps eating this new cat food then that should definitely help his diet.
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Dear Matthew!
Your kitty's health really depends on what you feed him.
Cats requirements for certain nutrients are vital and you just won't get your kitty healthy without fixing his food.
I'm not quite clear what you have been feeding your cat all his life so if you don't mind please give me more information.
From what I have read so far it seems that you kitty eats plain chicken (not cat food) and now you are trying to add some flakes or paste to his diet. Please correct me and clarify.
If I may suggest could you please purchase wet quality cat food which says on a packet that it is a complete one. You can find those made from chicken but there are other wonderful meats in those as well and I think it would be a good idea to try different meats as feeding just chicken is not balance and a lot of cats are actually allergic to it.
There is a lot of information on this board about feline nutrition and it is paramount that you try to follow that as whatever you do to treat your kitty and you are a good dad that you are helping with his diabetes but your kitty is in real danger if he eats unbalanced diet.
Have you discussed Timmy's diet with your vet?
I would like to make food suggestion for you:
1. there is a list of foods for diabetic kitties in the UK
2. I like Natures Menu Country Hunter - google it, it is available in pet shops but it is not cheap
3. make your own
Please don't just settle on the fact that Timmy only likes chicken! I have seen many people who seemed to be so adamant that their kitty would only eat so and so but after our suggestion to try different things they managed to transition their cats to healthy foods. There are ways of doing so and we are here to guide you, just let us know that you are ready!
Does Timmy go out at all?
Cats eat mice and birds (and rabbits often). This is their natural food and they have in it everything they need. Can you see how far away from it is a piece of chicken? Good feline food manufacturers try to copy that nutritional profile of species appropriate diet and it makes sense to feed your cat like that.
I have made a mistake of feeding my baby cat home made unbalanced diet and he got very sick. It was a long time ago, I'm glad I wised up!
Now I have a dog (Rottweiler/GS cross) and my kitty Rocky and I've been feeding them species appropriate diet for many years. It is a homemade raw feeding including bones and it is a very expensive way of feeding because the dog is big and active and his food intake is huge - about 1.5 kg of meat a day. I'm not suggesting that you need to do that, there are other ways but I'm just giving you options if you're interested.
You said that you work from home so I suspect you're very computer literate and you could do you own research on proper feline nutrition and equipped with this knowledge you will sail through feeding your kitty properly.
I hope I got you interested in the subject, just ask us any questions.
Other members will be able to give you more detailed information with regards to what's available in commercially prepared foods.
On the subject of insulin I would suggest that you change Timmy to Prozinc - you could discuss this with your vet. But it is a subject for another post - it requires more discussion.
Sending best regards to you and chin scratches for Timmy.
Marlena and Rocky:cat::cat::cat:
 
Diana&Tom said:
Very glad to hear you've found a new food that Timmy likes, Matthew. What brand is it? Is it definitely a complete food and not a complementary food? Just to be sure... there are so many cat foods available these days! Hopefully it is complete and Timmy will certainly be getting better nutrition. You can still give him pieces of cooked chicken as snacks or treats after BG tests (try to do that).

I'm concerned though to see the high numbers during Timmy's cycle today and have just asked someone I know who is very experienced in these things but doesn't come to the board much... she feels it's possible that these high numbers are bounces. We've mentioned this as a possibility on this thread as well as the possibility of Timmy being a big gulper. As you've been giving Timmy 4u for a while now and recent tests show that it's not his ideal dose, I really would consider dropping the dose now and see if that helps. If you try 3u you should still see a drop but perhaps less of a climb, so that might give us a clue. No guarantees. But it could be a step in the right direction. 3u would still be a higher than average dose for most cats and may or may not be right for Timmy. A lower dose might be better... but we don't know without more data... nobody knows. As I keep saying (sorry) it's trial and error.
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Diana, I'm pretty sure that we are seeing bounces here as Timmy drops from very high numbers to low (for him) numbers. Unfortunately Vetsulin works like that, I had the same with Rocky. After that we can see very high flat curves which look like insulin is not working. I would change to a different insulin asap.
 
Great responses here from Marlena, Matthew - I think the consensus now is that Timmy is bouncing. As we've briefly discussed here, Caninsulin can be tricky to dose because of the way it is utilised in cats. My suggestion as before is to decrease the dose and see the effects of that, and yes, discuss other insulin options with your vet asap. You could spend weeks and months fighting a losing battle and Timmy really does need to get out of those horrible high numbers asap.
See what your vet says and if he/she disagrees, just show them your spreadsheet which speaks for itself.
 
Hey guys, can I just again thank everyone for taking the time to give such great help and advice.

Timmy has always ate chicken or tuna his whole life. This is either just cooked chicken, or tuna chunks. This was discussed with the vet (which now has a serious question mark above their head) and was told it was absolutely fine. When he was diagnosed a year ago with diabeties, and his coat didnt improve after he was "normalized - according to the vet", they gave me an omega 3 oil to add to this food. I do add this regularily.

The food I found yesterday is a "wet" cat food. This is it:
https://www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/A...xIOPrQu_b1d7SIoFyzPod2QfMi8VDznDuUGgK_3vD_BwE

I also found this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vets-Best-Multi-System-Support-Cats/dp/B01GZTQPNA - although I tried hidinga bit in his food, and he ate everything but the paste!

Unfortunately after today, I am out of strips to Tuesday. A complete oversight at my end - as a few strips displayed error and had to be discarded. So tomorrow I wont be able to monitor at all. However, I am back on it with a box of 300 from Tuesday onward.

His starting point before injection time was much lower today, so I agree with the bouncing theory. I gave him 3 units today and will continue with that, and monitor for a few days and hopefully that helps. Will also get a vet appointment booked asap, although am looking for a better vet to be honest. I have lost all faith with my current one. I had another poor fellow who developed an ear tumour, which was removed. A year later he started looking unhappy one week, took him to the same vet and was told after a few days of testing all was well - he died of heart failure 2 nights later. I also have another beautiful cat, who suffered a stroke but made a full recovery. I should become a vet myself with all these patients! ha :)

Anyway, I am keen to get Timmy down to green numbers quickly, so to recap.

1. Keep him eating this better food.
2. Lower insulin to 3units and monitor.
3. Get a vet appointment and discuss trying a different insulin.

Is their anything else I should be doing?

Oh, one final point. I have read online that FreeStyle Lite strips work with the AlphaTrak2 memter - anyone has experience with this?
 
Matthew!
I have look at Timmy's SS.
The first line showed green number and then you had lots of black ones.
When kitty goes down to green number suddenly his liver would try to compensate to save his life and would throw glucose which would than be seen as a black number. This is a classic bounce as we call it. Insulin dose should be LOWERED for few cycles to see what happens. When body stops panicking the levels of glucose should level up. I think we can see it happening already today as you lowered the dose and you seeing better numbers.
You can always start increasing the dose of insulin if you have more data. What we advocate here is to start with lower dose and go higher if you need to.
Let's wait and see.
Good luck.
 
Thanks Marlena. Im annoyed I wont be able to track him tomorrow. But Tuesday on I will be doing 2 - 3 hours tests for a few days to track his levels.

I should be ok keeping him down at 3units tomorrow even if I cant track until Tuesday?
 
Matthew Brennan said:
Hey guys, can I just again thank everyone for taking the time to give such great help and advice.

Timmy has always ate chicken or tuna his whole life. This is either just cooked chicken, or tuna chunks. This was discussed with the vet (which now has a serious question mark above their head) and was told it was absolutely fine. When he was diagnosed a year ago with diabeties, and his coat didnt improve after he was "normalized - according to the vet", they gave me an omega 3 oil to add to this food. I do add this regularily.

The food I found yesterday is a "wet" cat food. This is it:
https://www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/A...xIOPrQu_b1d7SIoFyzPod2QfMi8VDznDuUGgK_3vD_BwE

I also found this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vets-Best-Multi-System-Support-Cats/dp/B01GZTQPNA - although I tried hidinga bit in his food, and he ate everything but the paste!

Unfortunately after today, I am out of strips to Tuesday. A complete oversight at my end - as a few strips displayed error and had to be discarded. So tomorrow I wont be able to monitor at all. However, I am back on it with a box of 300 from Tuesday onward.

His starting point before injection time was much lower today, so I agree with the bouncing theory. I gave him 3 units today and will continue with that, and monitor for a few days and hopefully that helps. Will also get a vet appointment booked asap, although am looking for a better vet to be honest. I have lost all faith with my current one. I had another poor fellow who developed an ear tumour, which was removed. A year later he started looking unhappy one week, took him to the same vet and was told after a few days of testing all was well - he died of heart failure 2 nights later. I also have another beautiful cat, who suffered a stroke but made a full recovery. I should become a vet myself with all these patients! ha :)

Anyway, I am keen to get Timmy down to green numbers quickly, so to recap.

1. Keep him eating this better food.
2. Lower insulin to 3units and monitor.
3. Get a vet appointment and discuss trying a different insulin.

Is their anything else I should be doing?

Oh, one final point. I have read online that FreeStyle Lite strips work with the AlphaTrak2 memter - anyone has experience with this?
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Matthew!
I use FF lite test strips with A Trak and they work so well and are half the price of ATr test strips! They read very similarly. When buying them at a pharmacy you can try to negotiate the price. They cost about £27, you might be able to find them cheaper somewhere.
We have a list of approved commercial cat food but I would have to ask another member to find it for you.
So I understand that you will try different feeding for Timmy, is that right? You forgot to tell me if Timmy is indoor only cat, please clarify.
Change of vet is paramount.
Sorry about my brief and slightly chaotic post but I'm in a hurry at the moment.
Congrats on your commitment to Timmy, you've got a heart of gold!
 
Good to see you taking all this seriously, Matthew. There's a lot to take in but it does fall into place after a while. I agree - you need a new vet. Maybe ring around a couple of local practices and ask if any of the vets have a special interest in FD... it's not exactly likely, but some more on-the-ball vets do take it upon themselves to research more than what they get told at vet school, ie precious little.

OK, food... the Applaws you bought for Timmy is probably an improvement on plain chicken or tuna, but if you look at the description it says "complementary". This means not complete, but complementary or secondary to a "complete" food. It's fine to carry on feeding if he likes it, but ideally you do want a complete food containing all the nutrients that are essential to good health. Timmy may have done ok so far on chicken and tuna, but as he gets older you do need to get the essential vitamins etc into him. So, carry on looking for "complete" foods. As I recommended before, one of the best is Sainsbury's Delicious range - it really does look like chicken should, and contains all the nutrients needed. If you're not near a Sainsbury's do you know someone who could pick up some boxes for you - or order online of course.

As for dosing, it is so hard to say, but I'd keep to the 3u and then start testing again asap. It may be that the 3u is still too high and you might need to try 2u or even 1u, but there isn't much point doing that until you're testing again. It will be very interesting to see how he responds to a few days of a lower dose. Meanwhile, just keep a close eye on him of course - be aware of any unusual symptoms.

Great job!
 
Matthew Brennan said:
Thanks Marlena. Im annoyed I wont be able to track him tomorrow. But Tuesday on I will be doing 2 - 3 hours tests for a few days to track his levels.

I should be ok keeping him down at 3units tomorrow even if I cant track until Tuesday?
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Matthew,
there is always a pharmacy open every day even on holidays (short hours). Supermarkets are open and they have pharmacies in them and most pharmacies stock Freedom Freestyle test strips so please try to buy them asap as you should monitor your kitty.
I'm not sure what dose of insulin you should use but 3 units might still be too much.
 
I would not recommend giving 3 or 4u of Caninsulin or monkeying with the dose without monitoring. You can use the Freestyle strips in the AT2 meter and while the readings won't be as accurate as they would be with the batch tested AT2 strips using the right code for the AT2 strios, they would still be in the ballpark. There are at least 5 cat codes on the AT2 meter and the different codes will give very slightly different results but a number of people use the FS strips and are quite happy with them.
I suggest if you want to go that route at least to tide you over till Tuesday, to go get them before you run out of AT2 strips and do a comparison by dual testing on the same drop of blood to see how different the readings are. Leave the AT2 meter set to the cat code you are currently using. That will give you a baseline to work with.
 
Thanks guys. Will grab some of the Delicious range tomorrow and see how he likes it.

Timmy used to be an out door cat, however these days he is very very much an indoor cat.

I have rang some local pharmacies already, and non seem to have the Freestyle strips. They all seem to only have accu-check strips?
 
I so agree with Diana!
If you like Matthew I will find you a good vet in your area but you need to tell me where you live, you could do that in a private message so nobody else would get that information.
 
Ignore that last message. Sainsburys pharmacy do them- off to get some!

I live in Ballymena, Northern Ireland. (Not to worried about private messaging you that :) )

Thanks!
 
Hi again - just looked at the Applaws range... it's the PATE version you need to seek out, it's a complete food which is what you're after. Maybe try that and the Sainsbury's one.

Re dose... yes, 3u might still be too much, the reason I was suggesting that is that Timmy is used to 4u (with no testing data) and if the dose goes much lower he may still be up in the high 600s simply because of what he is used to. It really is a tough call. We've seen people drop to a lower dose when the cat is bouncing and getting little variance from the numbers at the higher dose. In an ideal world you would start out at 1u and increase by half-unit increments every few days until you reach a point where pre-shot numbers aren't so high as to justify a highish dose. Have a think about this and go with your instinct.
 
Matthew Brennan said:
Freedom strips bought. Just did a back to back test. Alphatrak was 549, Freedom was 583.

How should I go about the different, just work with it. Or subtract 40ish off any Freedom strip test?
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It's within the variance. You could get readings like that from two different alphatrak strips from the same drop.
 
Great news to have strips!! not familiar with how to compare, but if you can't get a definitive answer just use the numbers you get as a good guideline.
Anyway, now you can test again more frequently. Just seen your latest number.. it looks as if the drop of 1u isn't making much difference in terms of bounce effect. Although it's not ideal to chop and change too often, you may have to reduce the dose again and see it that reduces the bounce... perhaps try 2.5 or even 2u tonight but what do other members think? Starting over at 1u or 1.5u could also be a plan... soooo hard to say and it is as always all down to the individual cat.
 
Matthew Brennan said:
Thanks guys. Will grab some of the Delicious range tomorrow and see how he likes it.

Timmy used to be an out door cat, however these days he is very very much an indoor cat.

I have rang some local pharmacies already, and non seem to have the Freestyle strips. They all seem to only have accu-check strips?
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Matthew Brennan said:
Thanks guys. Will grab some of the Delicious range tomorrow and see how he likes it.

Timmy used to be an out door cat, however these days he is very very much an indoor cat.

I have rang some local pharmacies already, and non seem to have the Freestyle strips. They all seem to only have accu-check strips?
Click to expand...
Matthew Brennan said:
Freedom strips bought. Just did a back to back test. Alphatrak was 549, Freedom was 583.

How should I go about the different, just work with it. Or subtract 40ish off any Freedom strip test?
Click to expand...

Well done!
These readings are very similar, ignore the difference. You could take the number which is in between (566).
 
It's common for the FS strips to read roughly 5-10% higher than the AT2 strips so the difference depends on the specific reading and you won't ever know what that difference is given there is meter variance involved too. I'd make a note on your spreadsheet in the comments or otherwise to indicate use of FS strips and just work with the numbers as they are.
 
Hi Matthew
Just had a look at Timmy's latest numbers... the 3u doesn't seem to have made any appreciable difference and he has a very high number again this morning. I see that you've given 2u today so let's hope that helps... it may well bring numbers down to start with, as the other doses have done, but maybe not rise quite so high in the latter part of the cycle... only time will tell, but if you're around today and able to do a few tests that would be very useful.

If the 2u doesn't show a different pattern today, I'd stick with it for another day or two. Perceived wisdom seems to be, when reducing doses to counteract suspected bouncing, to decrease the dose by 20-50% for two or three days, and monitor. Another school of thought is to start over at 1u, keep to that for a few days and gradually increase if necessary.

It's so hard to figure out what's going on here... it may take time, and meanwhile I think a new vet might be in order. It may be that the initial 1u dose wasn't given enough time to work before it was raised... if it were me I would definitely be looking for a vet with more experience in FD, or at the very least one who specialises in feline health (some vets are more experienced with dogs or other small animals, for example). It may be an idea to take Timmy for a check-up - you mentioned that he had a cold, or what is probably medically termed a respiratory tract infection, amd that could well be raising his BGs as well.

Keep us posted.
 
Honestly since you said you can manage it, I would try the 3 times a day 8 hour approach. I'd try it for the week and see what happens.
 
Matthew Brennan said:
Trying him on 2units today. If that doesnt work will start 3 times a day. What units should I be giving him if I go 3 times a day? 2.5/3?
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I would try few cycles (3 days - 6 cycles) on 2 units twice a day because if kitty bounces it takes at least 2 days to "clear" the bounce. If after those few days you still have high numbers you can increase the dose or try 3 times a day dosing but I would like to see more data on how Timmy reacts to insulin.
 
Matthew,
I forgot to mention something very important:
have you read about insulin you are using, do you know how it works?
also I think you should be posting on vetsulin/Caninsulin forum.
The thing you are looking for when you do a curve is a gentle curve like a bottom lip shape not a deep valley shape and the lowest point of the curve should be less then 50% of your starting BG so if you have BG of 600 the lowest point should be no less than 300. So this is what you should aim at first. If your numbers is 600 and kitty goes into 200 range although it is still not a very low number your cat's liver will try to compensate for the very steep drop and you will have a very high number again.
So you could see bounces for sometime which is stressful for the kitty. Things are complicated even more when you use insulin like Vetsulin/Caninsulin because you will see big drops in 2 hours and than 5-6 hours after injection as it is insulin composed of two different types of insulin: one very quick acting and one longer acting. It might be very risky to use it every 8 hours.
Another very important thing: have you managed to sort out Timmy's diet? It is important that he eats something at injection times and at expected nadirs.
 
There's a lot going on here, a lot of options. I'd like to see what happens over the 2u cycle... so far the drop isn't as dramatic as on higher doses, and with this lower dose, bg may now either shoot right up or stay around that level for longer because there may be less of a bounce... I think it's a matter of taking each cycle as it comes, and sticking with one dose for two or three days if possible to get a clearer picture.
Matthew, you could also post on the C/V forum where you did last week, or maybe go over there and add a link to this thread. The more experienced eyes you get on this the better.
 
Going to keep Timmy on a dosage of 2U for a few days as recommended and see how the bg looks. The BG hasnt come down so far today, curious to see how high it goes back up too.
 
Matthew Brennan said:
Great info guy thanks. I am in Northern Ireland.

Basically the vet upped his dosage fairly quickly from 1unit, 2 unit .. until we hit 4. He did have an "episode" about 6months ago where he took a fit/siezure - which was highly unpleasant for him and me. He has seemed fine since, but the past few weeks very hungry and thirsty. I suspect the vet will simply up his dosage again - so time to take control of it myself and treat him correctly!

A big issue (maybe) is he will only eat chicken. He will not eat cat foot, or dry food. This is not a favourite food thing, he simply will not eat cat food. And he cant really eat dry food as he hasnt very many teeth left. So its just cooked chicken he eats.

Any thoughts about chicken diet and his diabeties. He is fed 9am, 2pm and 9pm. Sometimes around dinner time too if he is looking.
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