Advice on dosage and bouncing and feeding and constantly high bg

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Andrea and Crushy Carran

Andrea and Crushy Carran

Member Since 2020
Crush is 13 y.o., was diagnosed in December. She's much better since diagnosis and has gained back 1-1/2 pounds (8.9# now). Very content and eats well unless her bg is super high. She bounces a lot and is hardly ever in target -- usually 250-450. She's wearing a Freestyle Libre so we can see what her bg levels are at any hour.

Her dose is what the vet advised - 1-1/2 units Prozinc am and 1 unit Prozinc pm.

Vet wants me to feed her only 2x per day. Tried it for a few days and then we had a hypo episode. Now we're back to our usual -- feed on demand for about 3 hours every morning and evening and we leave some wet out at night.

We feed Sheba perfect portions and Friskies pate -- approx. 180 calories/day. I'm thinking about switching her to one of the Fancy Feast Gourmet Naturals for the lower carb content (0.6-2.7%).

Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LQxiUsPMfzclHt0XWFruHq0RaI3gnvN_FWUbYWagl7Q/edit?usp=sharing
 
Hi Andrea,

While we are waiting for more experienced members to chime in - Have you read the STICKY: PROZINC DOSING METHODS yet?

The reason I ask is that following the Prozinc Protocol for dosing Crush 'earned' a dose reduction on April 28th.

I'd feel better having a more experienced member have a look at this though, since you are giving different doses AM & PM.
@Deb & Wink

And in the meantime, we'd also like to see a little more information in your signature to be able to help you better: EDITING YOUR SIGNATURE, PROFILE, AND PREFERENCES
 
Oh, and another note - your spreadsheet indicates you are using the Freestyle Libre, but you are using the spreadsheet template for the Alphatrak Pet Meter.

Please confirm what meter you are currently using. There is a different spreadsheet template to use when using a human meter. We might have to sort this out too.

Thanks!

EDIT: I know your first post says Freestyle Libre, but we want to be absolutely sure - some members use both. :)
 
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jt and trouble (GA) said:
I'm wondering the carb content of Sheba and if theres ANY dry food in the mix. Just thinkin out loud here. I see you joined in January so I know you know the boards view, on dry food and carb content.
jeanne
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I was wondering if the 180 calorie per day is enough for her. Minnie lost a ton of weigh while her diabetes was unregulated. I finally took Minnie to a nutritionist to figure out the weigh issue and overall nutrition for her GI/IBD. I never knew this until she explained to me, but diabetic cats lose calories simply by peeing since there’s sugar coming out in their urine every time they pee. She put Minnie on a wet food 300 calorie a day plan. Thoughts on this anyone?
 
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& Me again :)

I should have asked, if you are following the FDMB Dosing Protocols already are you following the SLGS (Start Low Go Slow) method for dosing or the Modified Prozinc method?

The Prozinc protocols were recently updated (after you first joined) and I keep forgetting about the Modified method.

We're all just trying to help when we ask all these questions - protocols, meters, food, etc

The more information we have the better we can help you!
 
Shelley & Jess said:
& Me again :)

I should have asked, if you are following the FDMB Dosing Protocols already are you following the SLGS (Start Low Go Slow) method for dosing or the Modified Prozinc method?

The Prozinc protocols were recently updated (after you first joined) and I keep forgetting about the Modified method.

We're all just trying to help when we ask all these questions - protocols, meters, food, etc

The more information we have the better we can help you!
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Shelley, do you know where the list of foods with less than 10% carbs lives? That would probably be helpful to her too :)

and I echo Shelley, I hope it doesn’t feel like we’re bombarding you with questions, but it’s to give you complete accurate advice. And setting up the signature for example, like we have, helps the experienced members get an at a glance snapshot of your cat and it’s medical history instead of searching through the thread for more info.

Btw, good for you for not taking your vet’s advice blindly. Most of us here have experienced that and you have to go with your instincts and what works for your cat. Feeding 2 times a day only works great for dogs but not so much for cats as they like to graze throughout the day :cat:
 
@Shelley & Jess - using Freestyle Libre -- I didn't know there were other spreadsheets ... I will need to try to find the other ones. I updated my signature and looked at the link you sent on Prozinc -- it's a lot of info so I'm digesting it -- we are definitely start slow go slow. My vet did not want me to home test - said it was a waste of time. I tried to do it on my own and couldn't. I asked him to show me and he didn't have time during my appointment. Then the virus hit so I found a vet to put on the Freestyle Libre. My husband doesn't like testing at all -- says she was fine and happy and the testing is just making us anxious all the time. We're on our second Freestyle Libre and have it for another week -- then I've got to figure out how to test.

@Aleluia Grugru & Minnie and @jt and trouble (GA) - No dry food at all. I have the food chart. It shows Sheba at 3% carbs and Friskies pate at 5% -- she was 12# and dropped to 7.5# -- she's back up to 8.9# since we started insulin. My daughter has her mom and "twin" sister (we're foster fails) -- they've always been tiny. I just discovered Fancy Feast Gourmet Naturals -- they're not on the food chart but the manufacturer says they're between 0.6% and 2.7% -- she'll eat anything so I'm thinking about switching foods again to see if I can get the numbers down ... I figured it was safer than messing with the insulin dose.
 
Andrea Carran said:
@Shelley & Jess - using Freestyle Libre -- I didn't know there were other spreadsheets ... I will need to try to find the other ones. I updated my signature and looked at the link you sent on Prozinc -- it's a lot of info so I'm digesting it -- we are definitely start slow go slow. My vet did not want me to home test - said it was a waste of time. I tried to do it on my own and couldn't. I asked him to show me and he didn't have time during my appointment. Then the virus hit so I found a vet to put on the Freestyle Libre. My husband doesn't like testing at all -- says she was fine and happy and the testing is just making us anxious all the time. We're on our second Freestyle Libre and have it for another week -- then I've got to figure out how to test.

@Aleluia Grugru & Minnie and @jt and trouble (GA) - No dry food at all. I have the food chart. It shows Sheba at 3% carbs and Friskies pate at 5% -- she was 12# and dropped to 7.5# -- she's back up to 8.9# since we started insulin. My daughter has her mom and "twin" sister (we're foster fails) -- they've always been tiny. I just discovered Fancy Feast Gourmet Naturals -- they're not on the food chart but the manufacturer says they're between 0.6% and 2.7% -- she'll eat anything so I'm thinking about switching foods again to see if I can get the numbers down ... I figured it was safer than messing with the insulin dose.
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When you’re ready, lots of amazing tips here for home testing. I didn’t think I could do it either so they helped me take baby steps and now I’m up to testing 3-4 times a day. I live by myself and I manage so I have no doubt you can do it too! :bighug:
 
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This is all really helpful information - Thank You!
We can slow down a bit here. Give you time to catch your breath.
I really want @Deb & Wink to chime in about a lot of this - especially the dosing. She is absolutely fantastic at helping folks with Prozinc dosing!
Take the time to catch up on some reading here. & yup, we'll get in to home testing a little later (since you have the Libre for now)

If you have ANY questions. Please ask. If anything we have said is confusing, please ask us to clarify. That's what we're all here for!
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
I was wondering if the 180 calorie per day is enough for her. Minnie lost a ton of weigh while her diabetes was unregulated. I finally took Minnie to a nutritionist to figure out the weigh issue and overall nutrition for her GI/IBD. I never knew this until she explained to me, but diabetic cats lose calories simply by peeing since there’s sugar coming out in their urine every time they pee. She put Minnie on a wet food 300 calorie a day plan. Thoughts on this anyone?
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Either my brain just hasnt kicked in or thats way over my head. (Sorry been shopping for "essentials" all morning... I think I caught the brain worm affecting the WH) :p)
 
Andrea Carran said:
she'll eat anything so I'm thinking about switching foods again to see if I can get the numbers down ... I figured it was safer than messing with the insulin dose
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Andrea Carran said:
Sheba at 3% carbs and Friskies pate at 5%
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These are pretty low carb already. We usually recommend 10% or less carbs. Let's wait for Deb okay? Before you change anything please.
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
I was wondering if the 180 calorie per day is enough for her. Minnie lost a ton of weigh while her diabetes was unregulated. I finally took Minnie to a nutritionist to figure out the weigh issue and overall nutrition for her GI/IBD. I never knew this until she explained to me, but diabetic cats lose calories simply by peeing since there’s sugar coming out in their urine every time they pee. She put Minnie on a wet food 300 calorie a day plan. Thoughts on this anyone?
Click to expand...
I calculated her calories based on her weight and what I wanted her to weigh ... the vet put her on Pro Plan DM with 6% carbs and 191 calories/can and told me to feed 1/2 can in the morning and 1/2 can in the evening. When we ran out of it, we switched back to Sheba. I never knew that about them peeing sugar and needing more calories ...! There's a "just cats" clinic nearby and also a specialty hospital -- maybe I'll make some calls on Monday. Doubting my vet is not a good feeling.
 
Shelley & Jess said:
Unregulated diabetic cats may need more food than a regulated diabetic cat.
She needs to eat as much as she needs to eat to to gain some weight back if she is still underweight.
Unregulated diabetic cats can not process their food properly, that's why most loose weight in the beginning.
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Yeap that too! But the peeing thing really blew my mind. I’d never had suspected it :eek:
 
Andrea Carran said:
I calculated her calories based on her weight and what I wanted her to weigh ... the vet put her on Pro Plan DM with 6% carbs and 191 calories/can and told me to feed 1/2 can in the morning and 1/2 can in the evening. When we ran out of it, we switched back to Sheba. I never knew that about them peeing sugar and needing more calories ...! There's a "just cats" clinic nearby and also a specialty hospital -- maybe I'll make some calls on Monday. Doubting my vet is not a good feeling.
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I’m with you. I’ve yet to find a vet I trust and I’ve been through 4 now. I do think cat clinics should know more about cats so it’s definitely worth a try if there’s one near you. I doubt they’d have told to feed only twice a day. But I’ve also gotten not so great advice from a cat only vet. I don’t mean to discourage you every vet is different, but for the most part, we just have to accept that vets don’t know that much about diabetes. It doesn’t make them bad vets. I think about it the way I think about general practitioners for myself. Those guys are not specialized so they have a bare minimum overview of all these different areas but are not experts in any particular one. If I have a specific neurological issue, I go see a neurologist. Sadly not a ton of specialty vets, but I did manage to find a specialty hospital near me and that’s where I took Minnie to get her ultrasound and pancreatitis tests. She saw an internal medicine specialty vet. I thought he was knowledgeable about that, but when I asked about food he talked about hills prescription and Royal Canin, you know the brands they carry at vet offices. So I went to see a nutritionist. She was great when it came to the probiotics and antioxidants that helped Minnie’s neuropathy and undiagnosed IBD, but I had to find food options like Rawz and Hounds and Gatos and ask her about those. She also doesn’t believe in raw food and I’m obsessed with it. I’m not trying to discourage you at all, I’m just sharing my experience and what I’ve learned is that I take everything they say with a grain of salt. Then I come here and ask these guys lol! :D
 
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Andrea Carran said:
I calculated her calories based on her weight and what I wanted her to weigh ... the vet put her on Pro Plan DM with 6% carbs and 191 calories/can and told me to feed 1/2 can in the morning and 1/2 can in the evening. When we ran out of it, we switched back to Sheba. I never knew that about them peeing sugar and needing more calories ...! There's a "just cats" clinic nearby and also a specialty hospital -- maybe I'll make some calls on Monday. Doubting my vet is not a good feeling.
Click to expand...
Having said all that, Minnie went down from 19 to 12 so I had her on the 300 calorie a day plan until she was back up to 16. I agree with Shelley they need to eat as much as they want initially to gain the weight. I just needed an amount that would help me figure out how many meals to offer her and home many cans a day I was trying to get in her
 
Andrea Carran said:
@Shelley & Jess - using Freestyle Libre -- I didn't know there were other spreadsheets ... I will need to try to find the other ones. I updated my signature and looked at the link you sent on Prozinc -- it's a lot of info so I'm digesting it -- we are definitely start slow go slow. My vet did not want me to home test - said it was a waste of time. I tried to do it on my own and couldn't. I asked him to show me and he didn't have time during my appointment. Then the virus hit so I found a vet to put on the Freestyle Libre. My husband doesn't like testing at all -- says she was fine and happy and the testing is just making us anxious all the time. We're on our second Freestyle Libre and have it for another week -- then I've got to figure out how to test.

@Aleluia Grugru & Minnie and @jt and trouble (GA) - No dry food at all. I have the food chart. It shows Sheba at 3% carbs and Friskies pate at 5% -- she was 12# and dropped to 7.5# -- she's back up to 8.9# since we started insulin. My daughter has her mom and "twin" sister (we're foster fails) -- they've always been tiny. I just discovered Fancy Feast Gourmet Naturals -- they're not on the food chart but the manufacturer says they're between 0.6% and 2.7% -- she'll eat anything so I'm thinking about switching foods again to see if I can get the numbers down ... I figured it was safer than messing with the insulin dose.
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I can't believe your vet said not to home test, that it's a waste of time, unbelievable
If you do start home testing down the road it really isn't hard at all, once you get the hang of it.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I can't believe your vet said not to home test, that it's a waste of time, unbelievable
If you do start home testing down the road it really isn't hard at all, once you get the hang of it.
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I completely agree, but guess what? I was told that too and that with Lantus you don’t have to do a curve :mad: and she was a cat vet only. So yeah lots of clueless vets out there unfortunately.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
My vet was so happy when I said I would home test. I have been going to her for about 15 years, she is so easy to get along with and always works with me on everything
I'm so lucky to have her
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You really really are. My latest vet is much better but now she’s pregnant and out because of covid for I don’t know how long. I was driving an hour for the cat specialty vet and this gal is 10 minutes from my house :eek:
 
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