Advice? John Denver's long strange trip...

Bryan & Sarah

Bryan & Sarah

Member
Our cat, John Denver, was diagnosed in 2017. We were able to get him to a state of remission after just a few months of testing and treatment. Changing his food was our first step, and it seemed to work well.

A few months ago, he tested quite high, so we began to test him regularly (twice per day) and inject him with Prozinc when needed.

At the onset of this most return to diabetes (for lack of a better phrase), I was withholding insulin if his number was below 150.

I changed that once I noticed he hypo'd (a low number of 49--some Karo syrup got us out of that one), so I began using 200 as my benchmark because I was scared of inadvertently killing him.

Anyhow, I am having trouble figuring out what to do. He has days on end where his glucose doesn't reach a shootable number, and other times where it's crazy high (for him--this is anything about 200). It seems wild and unpredictable.

Today, especially, has been bad. His morning number was 222, and he just tested at 295, his highest number since September.

This forum has been invaluable to us as we try to keep our cat healthy.

Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated.
 
Hi Bryan, Sarah and John Denver,
Looking at the SS the first thing I notice is that you are not testing in between the cycles. It is really important you do that so that you can see how well the dose is working. At the moment you have no idea how low he is dropping during the cycles.
Always try and get a test in before bed as well to see if he is dropping low.

I would decrease the dose down to 0.5 units to see if you can shoot both cycles, if the Preshot is high enough.
Make sure you get some inbetween tests in each day to see how that dose is working. He could be bouncing today because he dropped low during the am cycle.

Are you feeding him during the cycle?
 
We're both teachers and can't be home during the day, so I could only get mid-cycle tests on weekends. I will make a better effort to collect some data in that regard--before bed is a good idea, thank you.

He is fed in the morning after I've tested him. He is fed before we go to bed as well (usually around 10-11 pm) because he will otherwise keep us up all night! He eats three cans per day of Fancy Feast classic.

It seems odd that some days he will test at, say, 111 in the AM--so no shot--and then will test, say, 134 in the PM. And the next morning back down a bit.

Another issue we have is his demeanor: he really only likes me and my wife. He'll hiss and/or hide if a cat sitter or friend is around, so we have no way of controlling his diabetes if we're away for a weekend or longer.

I appreciate your advice. Thank you!
 
I would offer a few snacks during the day and night. Have you thought of getting a timed feeder. They are invaluable for diabetic cats whose caregivers work.

If you can also get tests in before you leave for work and when you come home... that is useful too.
Try the reduced dose and you may find you don’t have to skip.

There is no history of ketones is there?
 
Bryan & Sarah said:
He'll hiss and/or hide if a cat sitter or friend is around, so we have no way of controlling his diabetes if we're away for a weekend or longer.
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Everyone has to decide for themselves what they can manage and what they can't, but a lot of people with diabetic cats travel with them. It's much easier now than it used to be, as pet friendly hotels and motels are much more common. One member of the board even went camping with her cat.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I would offer a few snacks during the day and night. Have you thought of getting a timed feeder. They are invaluable for diabetic cats whose caregivers work.

If you can also get tests in before you leave for work and when you come home... that is useful too.
Try the reduced dose and you may find you don’t have to skip.

There is no history of ketones is there?
Click to expand...

No known ketones history.

I usually test in the morning around 6 and leave before 7. I'm home most days by 6, and that's when I test him again. I will try the .5 u dose.

We actually do have a timed feeder that we used to use with kibble. It was the feeder he used when we found out he was diabetic. For whatever reason, I've never thought of using it with the wet food. We will try that as well.
 
Juls and Billy said:
Everyone has to decide for themselves what they can manage and what they can't, but a lot of people with diabetic cats travel with them. It's much easier now than it used to be, as pet friendly hotels and motels are much more common. One member of the board even went camping with her cat.
Click to expand...

We have traveled with him before, but it really stresses him out. He hates everything about getting in a car and going anywhere.
 
Bryan & Sarah said:
We have traveled with him before, but it really stresses him out. He hates everything about getting in a car and going anywhere.
Click to expand...
Yeah, my Billy hated the car as well. But he's going to have to put up with it when we go on vacation next year. I don't have anyone he trusts enough to take proper care of him, and I won't risk him going out of remission. I could board him at a vet, but that would stress him more than the car.
 
Timed feeders are fine to use with wet food. You just need to wash the dishes our more often. It's good for the cat to have some food available during the day and night.
Getting a few tests in during the weekend days would be very helpful.
 
Juls and Billy said:
Yeah, my Billy hated the car as well. But he's going to have to put up with it when we go on vacation next year. I don't have anyone he trusts enough to take proper care of him, and I won't risk him going out of remission. I could board him at a vet, but that would stress him more than the car.
Click to expand...

He'll likely be heading on our spring break with us! If I boarded him at the vet, he'd try to kill me in my sleep!
 
So, what is your shoot/no shoot BG limit? You said earlier in this thread that 200 was your limit, but you shot a 189 this morning. (150 was too low a limit and you got a really low hypo range BG reading)

You are looking for about a 50% drop in BG between the pre-shot test (AMPS or PMPS) and the mid-cycle nadir point.

Last nights 1/27/20 dose of 1U took him from 295 to 72. That's a 75% drop so the 1U was definitely too high of a dose.

Glad you reduced to 0.5U today.

Likely your cat was dropping low a lot at night, which was giving those AMPS numbers too low to shoot. Many cats drop low at night because they are more active then. Since you work during the day, getting those PM tests in is key. Please try to do a regular 'before bed test' every evening.
 
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Deb & Wink said:
So, what is your shoot/no shoot BG limit? You said earlier in this thread that 200 was your limit, but you shot a 189 this morning. (150 was too low a limit and you got a really low hypo range BG reading)

You are looking for about a 50% drop in BG between the pre-shot test (AMPS or PMPS) and the mid-cycle nadir point.

Last nights 1/27/20 dose of 1U took him from 295 to 72. That's a 75% drop so the 1U was definitely too high of a dose.

Glad you reduced to 0.5U today.

Likely your cat was dropping low a lot at night, which was giving those AMPS numbers too low to shoot. Many cats drop low at night because they are more active then. Since you work during the day, getting those PM tests in is key. Please try to do a regular 'before bed test' every evening.
Click to expand...

I know that 189 is less than 200, but I felt confident that a .5u dose would be okay with a BG near 200.

I'll keep working on him--trying to make sure he has food to eat while we're at work--and giving him the reduced dosage.

I appreciate all your advice--thank you!
 
Hi, I simply wanted to make you aware of this. Posting this in your most recent thread.

All the "Sticky" or pinned posts in the Prozinc forum have been updated and there are a couple of new ones.

Highly recommend that everyone using Prozinc or helping those using Prozinc read them thoroughly.

I'll be doing that myself. Been expecting this for some time. Came about a week before I thought it would.
Thanks Marje, and Robert, and especially Djamila for the Modified Prozinc Method. You folks are FANTASTIC!
 
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