Advice about Baxter's numbers.

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Jenn & Baxter

Jenn & Baxter

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Good Evening.
I think I need some experience advice on Baxter's numbers. The last couple of nights his numbers have been low. So now I am scared to give him the advice dose from the vet. Vet told me on friday (Dec 2) to continue with .50 ProZInc. The other night he drop to 70 with .50. So the next morning I gave him .25 because he was at 172. Followed with .25 in the evening which dropped him to 77.
Am I doing the right thing by adjusting the insulin?
I don't know what to think about his numbers. I don't think I am ever going to understand. It seems like a number game a car salesman wouldn't be ale to figure out.

Baxter SS is current if anyone would like to take a look and give me some feedback.
Thank you.
 
Hi Jenn
I am looking at your SS and will let you know what I see. I'm not a car salesman. They make up numbers anyway :smile:
I like numbers. I'm a Stats GEEK! back shortly.

Carl
 
OK
My first impression. Baxter likes to be lower at night.... that might have something to do with when he eats, or when he is most active (day or night).
Can you give us an example of "A Day In the Life of Baxter"?
When and how much do you feed him, and what type of food each time?
Is he a night owl?

We're gonna help you see the logic of his numbers. For now, I'd stick with the .25 until we figure this out.

Carl
 
Oh, forgot to say....
Trying to decide between .5 and .25? Ask anybody here. That's not a bad problem to have this early in the game.

Carl
 
Baxter's life....
7:30-8:00 am he is begging for food. Most of the time I feed him at 8am.
I switched to Before Grain Turkey on Sun. Before that Before Grain Beef. Before that Blue Buffalo Salmon.
I feed him about 3.5 oz. He eats less then half the first 5 minutes. Then walks around outside, comes back eats a little more, gets on his bed, but doesn't sleep. Within 30 minutes most of the food is gone.
9:00-10:00 He is on his bed.
Sometime around 10:30-11:00 he is asleep.
9:30-5:00- Sleeping
5:00-7:30 He is wanting food. Sitting by his bowl or going to his bed.
8:00- Eats. Same thing. Eats a little then comes back.
8:00-12:00 am He is a little active. Wants to hang out on the back porch, or go to his room.
12:00 am I take him to his night time bed.
If I check on him in the middle of the night I don't think he is really sleeping like in the afternoon. He is quick to come over to me.
I would say he tends to be more of a night owl. A little more active in the evenings. The last couple of nights I have got him to play. He hasn't wanted to do that in about a year. He doesn't play very long, but I am happy to see him playing.

Going to look at Cellos sheet now.
 
I viewed Cello's SS. In comparision it looks very simlar to Baxter's.
So you give Cello insulin at anytime she is high? Not at specific times?
Oh & I saw what appears to be otj_icon ? Am I reading it right?
 
Good. I was hoping you'd say that. You know, aside from having the dire beasties, that's a pretty good life. Look at all the sleep kitties get. :smile:

Some people here have noticed a lower BG after a period of activity. Exercise seems to lower BG for some. That might be one reason for his lower numbers at night. He's burning up the energy from dinner instead of it just making his sugar go up?

So, we want more acivity in the day time.... but he's a cat. They have their routine and pretty much decide that for themselves. So maybe we can figure out how to time his meals to get the balance of food and insulin that we want?

Any thoughts all?

One other thing I just saw....The night of the 3rd and 4th, the numbers are almost exactly the same. One, however, only took half the dose as the other. Odd. The .5 dose gave him a lower AMPS than the .25 did though. Looks to me like .5 worked better.
Or, that .5 overnight works best, and that .25 in the morning works better than .5, but that's probably over-analyzing it on my part. Overall the numbers look pretty darn good to me.
Maybe a "line in the sand" on dosing? Over 200, .5, between 150-199, a .25? Nothing (for now) if lower than 150?

Carl
 
You can pm Cello's mom and ask her about the particulars. But yes, I think she would dose when the number went to her predetermined threshold. And she is a bean with a demanding job, but she managed to basically shoot on demand. You could also search for her among Members and read her posts to see the process. You can go to this page and search all posts.

[url=http://www.felinediabetes.com...u=5073]memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=5073
[/url]

The one thing you have to be sure of is that the number is rising, not going down.

She hasn't come on and declared him OTJ, bur yes, looks like he qualifies!
 
How do you balance food & insulin?

Baxter #'s do seem to be the same on a couple of days around the same time too.

Today he hasnt' wanted to eat much. I am starting to think he might not like Turkey. I switched to Turkey on Sun. Merrick Before Grain. He really likes his salmon BB Wilderness. I read its not good to give it more then twice a week. His #'s are a little higher than the last few days. I gave him .50 AM & PM. I am going to test him in a couple of hours.
 
Jenn
Has Baxter pretty much stayed at the same weight since you started with the insulin? In other words, does the amount you are feeding him every day seem like it's keeping his weight about the same?

In general terms.....food will make his BG rise, and insulin will make it go down. So it's a matter of timing the feeding so that you get consistent numbers if possible. I believe that human diabetics are encouraged to eat smaller servings, but more often throughout the day. But with humans it's easy. They can feel when their sugar is too high or too low, and they can eat different things to raise or lower their BG. I'm sure if cats could talk "human", this would be a lot easier! :smile:

What some people do, I do this now with my two kitties. They always act like they are starving, first off. But I know they get enough food. I feed them about 3oz each at breakfast and dinner time. I feed them about 1.5 oz each in between meals. But when Bob was on insulin, I was only feeding mostly at meal/shot time AM and PM and an occasional snack or treat in between during the day.
What I could have done, and this is what some do, is give him food around +4 or +5. That may have made his "nadir" BG number a little bit higher, made his "curve" a little less deep.

If Baxter seems to go lower overnight, and he's more active at night, then he might need just a bit more food at night. But that isn't a "must" kind of thing. He doesn't "need" to be higher in the middle at night. This could just be his natural cycle.

Take a look at "Angela and Henry" and Henry's SS. No matter what Angela has tried, from changing food times, to putting him on a shot schedule that is not "normal"...., to adjusting his doses, he is always higher in the morning than he is at night. She's tried a million different things to "fix" that, but Henry won't play along. It's just the way Henry is.

We try anything we can to make the numbers more consistent and even, but sometimes, it's just trying different things.
You could try feeding him just a bit more at PMPS or a couple hours later. Not much more, but a little, and see if that makes his nighttimes more inline with his daytimes. But they are not that far off. Just a little lower overnight. It's just a pattern I noticed when I looked close at the SS.

The important thing if you are trying to manipulate food and insulin by changing meals or timing of meals is to keep really good notes about how much and when Baxter eats. Then you can look back at a week of numbers to see if anything changed numbers-wise by changing feeding habits.

Carl
 
I think the other part of the food equation is that if his pancreas is helping out, food can bring the numbers down. Test this someplace in the end of the cycle when the insulin is wearing off. Test, feed and then test again in 30-40 minutes. If the numbers went down, his pancreas is contributing!

If this is happening, then you can use this by spreading the food out during the day and night. It might help him keep his own numbers down between shots. (although ECID!!) Divide what you normally feed into several small meals and let him graze. Some people freeze the food and leave it out to thaw. Some use automatic feeders.

Another thing to try is go to really low carb and see if that helps. Say you are feeding 8% carbs. Try some 3-5% and see if the numbers change. Stay away from seafood too often, though.
 
Hi there!!

Just wanted to chime in!
I'm cello's mom :) (Lise)

I did do microdosing! If you are feeding low carb wet food exclusively I REALLY wouldn't be worried about sending him into hypo with small doses.

I was on BCP PZI so that is all I know how to dose.

Basically I wouldn't shoot if he was over 150

150-180 I gave the smallest possible I could on a 100U syringe (0.25U) (BUT MAKE SURE # IS RISING AT THESE LEVELS ie. test if he was 160, test an hour later, if he is up, shoot, if he is the same or down don't shoot)
180-300 I gave 0.5U - at this level I didn't wait to see if it was going up.
Above 300 0.75 U

then just test intermittently. SOmetimes he would go 36 hours + without needing a shot!

We are OH SO CLOSE TO REMISSION.

Today would be the day, but this morning he was at 170. I find now he can sometimes recover on his own (he went a bit longer than I'd like without food) and since it's been 2 weeks without insulin I'm going to give him until tonight to see if he brings himself down. If he does I'm calling it :)

I would do a food test with your kitty as well.

Ie. test before food, an hour after, and an hour after that. Cello started going down after meals and this is when I started the microdosing.

Great job!!! I bet your kitty will be better in NO time! :)
 
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