Adopted Sid the Diabetic. Help!

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SophieB

Member Since 2016
Hey
Sid was supposed to be put down and came into the vet school from a shelter. I thought I'd give him a chance. Set him up a donations page and wanting to give him a nice life :)


He has been eating fine, wanting food.
Wednesday - Friday.
Vomiting and diarrhoea on and off since Wednesday when I got him home vet and I thought stress and settling in.

Bloods: fructosamine 450 so been diabetic at least couple weeks. Liver fine. Kidneys seem fine. Some dehydration noted.

Tried to start him on insulin today however he just managed breakfast so got his am 1iu caninsulin but then his dinner at 7pm he wanted food but when offered his is lip smacking. So feeling sick. But he's wanting to eat, purring and interested.
Have been trying to offer him up to 10pm now it's too late really to give him dinner.

He's sleeping and has been quite a bit this evening.
He's still drinking loads
Still urinating
Has had about 3 bouts of diarrhoea
Vomited once today at around 5pm.

Ketone stick negative.


Any advice would be really helpful. I'm just worrying about him.
 
That's what I'm worried about or DKA.

I'm just trying to weigh up can this wait until Monday morning or should he being to the vet school tonight :/
 
Negative on a ketone stick right now doesn't mean DKA isn't brewing. Neither DKA nor pancreatitis are problems that can wait, in my opinion. They can both go south very quickly. I would recommend getting him to the vet school sooner than later - a weekend is too long a wait IMO. BTW, if you happen to be in Canada, this is a long weekend so do not wait!
 
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Negative on a ketone stick right now doesn't mean DKA isn't brewing. Neither DKA nor pancreatitis are problems that can wait, in my opinion. They can both go south very quickly. I would recommend getting him to the vet school sooner than later - a weekend is too long a wait IMO. BTW, if you happen to be in Canada, this is a long weekend so do not wait!
I'm in Scotland :)

I was worrying to much so decided to bring him in. I'm helping out with his treatment just now with me being one of the students. it's 1am just now so we are taking some blood, giving him fluids and anti-sickness medications

Yeh I wanted to nip this in the bud before it got worse because he isn't stabalised yet either with insulin.
 
I'm in Scotland :)

I was worrying to much so decided to bring him in. I'm helping out with his treatment just now with me being one of the students. it's 1am just now so we are taking some blood, giving him fluids and anti-sickness medications

Yeh I wanted to nip this in the bud before it got worse because he isn't stabalised yet either with insulin.

I'm very glad to know that your lovely Sid is being looked after. And it's a learning experience for you - excellent! He's lucky to have you and even luckier that you're a vet student. I hope it all goes well. Feel free to come back to FDMB to ask any questions you might have when he's home recuperating and then when you begin to work on getting get him regulated.
 
Thanks for all the support guys :) I'll keep you posted!
 

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Hey everyone :)

I'm just waiting on a phone call from the hospital to update me on Sid.

Also if anyone wants to keep updated with his story. I'll post here and also updates on his gofundme page. Just trying to spread the word about Mr. Sid as much as possible ❤️

https://www.gofundme.com/2svzgbg
 
Hi Sophie,
Just looked at Sid's page. 4 yrs is very young to be diabetic. Do you know if Sid has had steroid treatment in the recent past..?

Waving to you from Surrey!

Eliz
 
Hey! :)

No history of steroids that I am aware of.

He was from a a shelter as a kitten, then put into another shelter there he developed glucose in his urine which was consistent for a few weeks so they decided to put him to sleep as those cats won't be adopted.

That's when he came into the vet school. We checked his blood sugar was 25
And his fructosamine was 450 indicating his sugar has been elevated a while. He's losing weight drinking loads and always hungry (up until yesterday)
So showing all signs of diabetes.

He may also be older because he's been in and out of shelters nobody knows much about the little monster unfortunately. So he could possibly be 6
 
* * * * WARNING: LONG POST * * * *


Hi Sophie,

:bighug::bighug::bighug:

Thank you so much for rescuing Sid! He's adorable!!!

(((Sid)))

Another UK bod here.

Here are very helpful links for you:

IDEXX Pancreatitis Treatment Guidelines

Nausea, vomiting and appetite problems - symptoms and treatments

Do you have the ability to run a SNAP fPL blood test at the vet school today? That would give you an immediate yes/no answer on whether pancreatitis is the problem. A Spec fPL lab result will give you an indication of severity of inflammation. If you haven't done so already, it's wise to check B12/folate levels, too.

Have you just changed his food to Hill's m/d? A diet change can cause digestive system problems. It may help Sid to go back to his previous food for the time being. (Word of warning: DO NOT feed Sid SHEBA Fine Flakes food - they've recently changed the formula. I've seen two reports from others about cats having a problem with it, I recently lost my little one after feeding it - triggered a massive pancreatitis flare - and it also caused GI issues for my non-diabetic cat.)

Have you kept the food the same but started a different batch? This, too can trigger digestive problems. If yes, try a different food batch of the same formulation.

Another thing to try might be to gently poach some chicken breast just in water, mince it up finely and give small amounts along with a tablespoon or two of the poaching water (broth). It's easily digestible and may help to keep a little bit in Sid's tum till the anti-nausea meds kick in and the broth helps a lot with maintaining good hydration.

I've also seen some cats here (my own little one included) who developed nausea/GI issues similar to those you're describing shortly after starting insulin treatment (sometimes with a diet change involved, sometimes not).

Ondansetron is a gift from the kitty gods for treating nausea. Generic Zofran is insanely expensive (and not the best variant) but generic ondansetron is very affordable. The best ondansetron for cats in the UK is the Bristol Laboratories generic. A human drug, you may not have it at the vet school pharmacy. Various generics may be available at local pharmacies but the BL version is less constipating than the other generics. If you need to treat with ondansetron but can't get the BL generic locally, Pharmplex carry it all the time. Here's a link - you need to specify on the written Rx that you need the Bristol Laboratories generic. It costs less than ÂŁ10 for 30 tablets.

http://www.pharmplexdirect.com/ondansetron-tablets-4mg-tablets-p-54595.html

I can't sing the praises of ondansetron highly enough; it saved my little one's life more than once.

As you already know, Cerenia is another anti-nausea treatment which is especially helpful for vomiting. Ondansetron can take a day or two to build up to full clinical effect but the Cerenia should help fairly quickly, even though its effects peter out relatively quickly. Both Cerenia and ondansetron can be used in combination if the nausea is particularly severe. See the following post on another related thread for details:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ast-yesterday-help.166040/page-3#post-1796242

Another thing to double-check is that Sid is not constipated (another complication of unregulated diabetes) since this, too, may cause nausea and vomiting plus some diarrhoea may leak around a 'stuck' stool. If constipation is the issue any anti-nausea treatment won't help much until the constipation is resolved. A couple of doses of metoclopramide to give a boost to gut motility may be a help. See the IDEXX document for further info on metoclopramide (Reglan). It may help with resolving a gut motility issue but it's almost useless as a standalone anti-nausea treatment. (I can attest to this from experience.) Here's a very useful resource on cat GI issues:

www.felineconstipation.org

Feeding very small meals with a little water added from raised dishes can help a lot with nausea problems. I recognise that this may make Caninsulin administration problematic because of its hard, fast onset. I've no experience of using Prozinc but it is another option available to you. From what I've read here it may not be as harsh on a cat's system as the Caninsulin.

For general information, the veterinary Rx foods are higher in carbs than ideal; the recommendation is to feed a diet with less than 10% calories from carbs. Purina DM canned is the only Rx food in the UK which I know to meet this criterion. Rx foods are expensive, too. For future reference here is a thread with details of UK diabetic-friendly food info. On the thread you'll find a link to the current list of UK commercial foods which are diabetic-friendly (and more affordable):

UK Diabetic-friendly Food Info

Here's a link to the best site on the web (vet-authored) covering general principles of feline nutrition. How I wish to the high heavens I had known about it when my little ones were kittens. I'm giving you the link to the diabetes-specific page but I always recommend reading the whole site. Without exception the root cause of all the health problems any of my cats experienced to date can be linked directly back to feeding dry, species-inappropriate food. Pointing you in the direction of this site is the greatest gift I can think of to offer you for Sid as you start out on your journey together:

Dr Lisa Pierson's catinfo.org site - Feline Diabetes

Another way to keep cost of home diabetes management down is to use a human glucometer with a cat-specific reference range; the test strips are significantly cheaper than those for the Alphatrak 2. (If you do opt to do your home testing with an Alphatrak let us know and we can point you to where to get the best prices on them.) You can get good deals on human meter strips at ebay or Amazon (check both every time to see where the best price is to be had) but always check the expiry dates before ordering. One popular human meter with UK members is the Accu-Chek Aviva. (Strips are widely available at the likes of Boots and Morrison's should you ever get caught short with an internet order arriving late.) It's also cheaper to order urinalysis strips on ebay or Amazon but again check expiry dates before placing your business. We can also give you other pointers on how to keep treatment costs down (e.g. for syringes). Just let us know when you'd like more info.

I'm sorry if this is a bit 'teaching granny to suck eggs'; I'm just very keen to try to help you help Sid plus I hate pancreatitis with a passion that defies articulation so I try to do all I can think of for kitties who may have it.

Once again bless you, Sophie, for saving this beautiful boy. The relationship you're going to have with your little sugar cat is going to be a-mazing.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:


Mogs
.
 
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* * * * WARNING: LONG POST * * * *


Hi Sophie,

:bighug::bighug::bighug:

Thank you so much for rescuing Sid! He's adorable!!!

(((Sid)))

Another UK bod here.

Here are very helpful links for you:

IDEXX Pancreatitis Treatment Guidelines

Nausea, vomiting and appetite problems - symptoms and treatments

Do you have the ability to run a SNAP fPL blood test at the vet school today? That would give you an immediate yes/no answer on whether pancreatitis is the problem. A Spec fPL lab result will give you an indication of severity of inflammation. If you haven't done so already, it's wise to check B12/folate levels, too.

Have you just changed his food to Hill's m/d? A diet change can cause digestive system problems. It may help Sid to go back to his previous food for the time being. (Word of warning: DO NOT feed Sid SHEBA Fine Flakes food - they've recently changed the formula. I've seen two reports from others about cats having a problem with it, I recently lost my little one after feeding it - triggered a massive pancreatitis flare - and it also caused GI issues for my non-diabetic cat.)

Have you kept the food the same but started a different batch? This, too can trigger digestive problems. If yes, try a different food batch of the same formulation.

Another thing to try might be to gently poach some chicken breast just in water, mince it up finely and give small amounts along with a tablespoon or two of the poaching water (broth). It's easily digestible and may help to keep a little bit in Sid's tum till the anti-nausea meds kick in.

I've also seen some cats here (my own little one included) who developed nausea/GI issues similar to those you're describing shortly after starting insulin treatment (sometimes with a diet change involved, sometimes not).

Ondansetron is a gift from the kitty gods for treating nausea. Generic Zofran is insanely expensive (and not the best variant) but generic ondansetron is very affordable. The best ondansetron for cats in the UK is the Bristol Laboratories generic. A human drug, you may not have it at the vet school pharmacy. Various generics may be available at local pharmacies but the BL version is less constipating than the other generics. If you need to treat with ondansetron but can't get the BL generic locally, Pharmplex carry it all the time. Here's a link - you need to specify on the written Rx that you need the Bristol Laboratories generic. It costs less than ÂŁ10 for 30 tablets.

http://www.pharmplexdirect.com/ondansetron-tablets-4mg-tablets-p-54595.html

I can't sing the praises of ondansetron highly enough; it saved my little one's life more than once.

As you already know, Cerenia is another anti-nausea treatment which is especially helpful for vomiting. Ondansetron can take a day or two to build up to full clinical effect but the Cerenia should help fairly quickly, even though its effects peter out relatively quickly. Both Cerenia and ondansetron can be used in combination if the nausea is particularly severe. See the following post on another related thread for details:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ast-yesterday-help.166040/page-3#post-1796242

Another thing to double-check is that Sid is not constipated (another complication of unregulated diabetes) since this, too, may cause nausea and vomiting plus some diarrhoea may leak around a 'stuck' stool. If constipation is the issue any anti-nausea treatment won't help much until the constipation is resolved. A couple of doses of metoclopramide to give a boost to gut motility may be a help. See the IDEXX document for further info on metoclopramide (Reglan). It may help with resolving a gut motility issue but it's almost useless as a standalone anti-nausea treatment. (I can attest to this from experience.) Here's a very useful resource on cat GI issues:

www.felineconstipation.org

Feeding very small meals with a little water added from raised dishes can help a lot with nausea problems. I recognise that this may make Caninsulin administration problematic because of its hard, fast onset. I've no experience of using Prozinc but it is another option available to you. From what I've read here it may not be as harsh on a cat's system as the Caninsulin.

For general information, the veterinary Rx foods are higher in carbs than ideal; the recommendation is to feed a diet with less than 10% calories from carbs. Purina DM canned is the only Rx food in the UK which I know to meet this criterion. Rx foods are expensive, too. For future reference here is a thread with details of UK diabetic-friendly food info. On the thread you'll find a link to the current list of UK commercial foods which are diabetic-friendly (and more affordable):

UK Diabetic-friendly Food Info

Here's a link to the best site on the web (vet-authored) covering general principles of feline nutrition. How I wish to the high heavens I had known about it when my little ones were kittens. I'm giving you the link to the diabetes-specific page but I always recommend reading the whole site. Without exception the root cause of all the health problems any of my cats experienced to date can be linked directly back to feeding dry, species-inappropriate food. Pointing you in the direction of this site is the greatest gift I can think of to offer you for Sid as you start out on your journey together:

Dr Lisa Pierson's catinfo.org site - Feline Diabetes

Another way to keep cost of home diabetes management down is to use a human glucometer with a cat-specific reference range; the test strips are significantly cheaper than those for the Alphatrak 2. (If you do opt to do your home testing with an Alphatrak let us know and we can point you to where to get the best prices on them.) You can get good deals on human meter strips at ebay or Amazon (check both every time to see where the best price is to be had) but always check the expiry dates before ordering. One popular human meter with UK members is the Accu-Chek Aviva. (Strips are widely available at the likes of Boots and Morrison's should you ever get caught short with an internet order arriving late.) It's also cheaper to order urinalysis strips on ebay or Amazon but again check expiry dates before placing your business. We can also give you other pointers on how to keep treatment costs down (e.g. for syringes). Just let us know when you'd like more info.

I'm sorry if this is a bit 'teaching granny to suck eggs'; I'm just very keen to try to help you help Sid plus I hate pancreatitis with a passion that defies articulation so I try to do all I can think of for kitties who may have it.

Once again bless you, Sophie, for saving this beautiful boy. The relationship you're going to have with your little sugar cat is going to be a-mazing.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:


Mogs
.
Thank you so much for all this information! I've already been on a few of the links and the diet one is fab :)

The m/d diet was what he was on in the shelter. We haven't done a snap PLI yet because he's perked up so much.
 
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So Mr.Sid is back from the hospital he is so much brighter after a night of IV fluids and Cerenia.

He's home on 4 days worth of cerenia and so far no vomiting and he's super starving which I am happy to see as I can finally start his insulin.

He's eaten all his dinner and received his insulin so we'll see how tomorrow goes.

How long before I start actually seeing positive results with the insulin?

For now he is drinking x2 the normal amount of water and I've been told he was ketone positive in his blood.
 
So Mr.Sid is back from the hospital he is so much brighter after a night of IV fluids and Cerenia.

He's home on 4 days worth of cerenia and so far no vomiting and he's super starving which I am happy to see as I can finally start his insulin.

He's eaten all his dinner and received his insulin so we'll see how tomorrow goes.

How long before I start actually seeing positive results with the insulin?

For now he is drinking x2 the normal amount of water and I've been told he was ketone positive in his blood.

Great news! Were you able to identify a particular problem (start of DKA?) or was it from unregulated diabetes in general? I see he was positive for ketones - go glad you took him to the vet school right away and didn't wait until tomorrow. :)
 
Yeh I'm looking to get a
Great news! Were you able to identify a particular problem (start of DKA?) or was it from unregulated diabetes in general? I see he was positive for ketones - go glad you took him to the vet school right away and didn't wait until tomorrow. :)
we think it's because he is a very uncontrolled diabetic.
Today really is the start of his stabilising journey.
We are all hoping it's not DKA as things get complicated. He is very very bright and trying too eat me!
 
Yeh I'm looking to get a

we think it's because he is a very uncontrolled diabetic.
Today really is the start of his stabilising journey.
We are all hoping it's not DKA as things get complicated. He is very very bright and trying too eat me!
If he was going into or in DKA he certainly wouldn't be bright and trying to eat you! And yes, DKA is complicated and expensive to treat ... I've been there with my cat.
 
Are you checking his blood glucose and urine for ketones. If so what meter are you using? What insulin and food are you giving? can you add a signature with all the relevant information (be sure to mention he has had ketones) and the next step will be to set up a spreadsheet.
 
So Mr.Sid is back from the hospital he is so much brighter after a night of IV fluids and Cerenia.

He's home on 4 days worth of cerenia and so far no vomiting and he's super starving which I am happy to see as I can finally start his insulin.

He's eaten all his dinner and received his insulin so we'll see how tomorrow goes.

How long before I start actually seeing positive results with the insulin?

For now he is drinking x2 the normal amount of water and I've been told he was ketone positive in his blood.

I saw above that you're giving Caninsulin. I have no experience with that but it's fair to say that kitties can take some time to get accustomed to exogenous insulin. While they're adjusting they can throw you some weird BG numbers. Sid might take time to settle and you might have to spend the weeks ahead tweaking doses to find out what works for him. It's not always easy to get there. Some cats regulate quickly and easily and some are quite the opposite. I have one of the latter. :mad:
 
Are you checking his blood glucose and urine for ketones. If so what meter are you using? What insulin and food are you giving? can you add a signature with all the relevant information (be sure to mention he has had ketones) and the next step will be to set up a spreadsheet.

I don't have a glucose monitor yet and looking for advice on what's the best to go for. The alphatrak 2 is pretty expensive!
Tried to add signature; he's on 1 unit twice daily caninsulin
I use ketodiastix which are ketone negative and glucose positive.
 
I saw above that you're giving Caninsulin. I have no experience with that but it's fair to say that kitties can take some time to get accustomed to exogenous insulin. While they're adjusting they can throw you some weird BG numbers. Sid might take time to settle and you might have to spend the weeks ahead tweaking doses to find out what works for him. It's not always easy to get there. Some cats regulate quickly and easily and some are quite the opposite. I have one of the latter. :mad:
Yeah because he has literally just started his insulin im just worrying about everything. I don't have a blood glucose monitor.
I have only had it done today at vets before I took him home before insulin he was 23 and 8 hours after insulin it was 22.2 still. But again today is day 1 of insulin.
 
Thank you so much for all this information!
Hard won, Sophie; very hard won. I am glad it is of help to you.

I've already been on a few of the links and the diet one is fab :)
Hand on heart, I think one of the best things you will ever do for your future feline patients is to use this precious gift to the cat world from Dr Pierson to ensure they eat a diet that is truly good for their health and well-being. :)


Mogs
.
 
Hard won, Sophie; very hard won. I am glad it is of help to you.


Hand on heart, I think one of the best things you will ever do for your future feline patients is to use this precious gift to the cat world from Dr Pierson to ensure they eat a diet that is truly good for their health and well-being. :)


Mogs
.

I'm thinking moving him onto the thrive complete wet food once he is more stable. :)

Next thing is a glucose monitor on my list and a cat bed for him!
 
I don't have a glucose monitor yet and looking for advice on what's the best to go for.
Check my previous post for info on meters, e.g. Accu-Chek Aviva, plus how to save money on supplies.

@Elizabeth and Bertie - can you recommend other glucometers available in the UK, please?

FDMB quotes the normal reference range for cat BG as measured on a human meter as 50-120mg/dL (divide these values by 18 to get the mmol/L equivalents). For general information, I've attached a copy of the published Roomp-Rand Tight Regulation Protocol study (for Lantus & Levemir). It will give you an idea of key reference range values (and shows the scientific basis for the human meter reference range used at FDMB).


Mogs
.
 

Attachments

Check my previous post for info on meters, e.g. Accu-check Aviva. FDMB quotes the normal reference range for cat BG as measured on a human meter as 50-120mg/dL (divide these values by 18 to get the mmol/L equivalents).

Attached is the published Roomp-Rand Tight Regulation Protocol study (for Lantus & Levemir). It will give you an idea of key reference range values (and shows the scientific basis for the human meter reference range used at FDMB).


Mogs
.
Again thank you for all this amazing information! Over the next few days I'll be making my way through it all! :)
 
I use ketodiastix which are ketone negative and glucose positive.
Tip for collecting urine for ketone testing:

Lay some cling film over the top of Sid's litter box - preferably over one of his 'favourite' spots in the box. Some very dexterous members here have become adept at catching a sample mid-pee with a long-handled spoon!


Mogs
.
 
Tip for collecting urine for ketone testing:

Lay some cling film over the top of Sid's litter box - preferably over one of his 'favourite' spots in the box. Some very dexterous members here have become adept at catching a sample mid-pee with a long-handled spoon!


Mogs
.
Omg. Never thought of that! That stupid Katkor litter is such a pain!
This might save me a lot of time!
 
This might save me a lot of time!
And spondoolicks! ;)

Now that you know Sid is a ketone-prone kitty, I'd suggest testing once or twice a day for the time being. Anything you can do to increase his water intake would be helpful in flushing ketones out of his system.

It's great that you're testing for ketones. In my two years here I've noticed that many, many members arriving here (myself included) have been given little or no education by their vets about ketosis, DKA and the importance of monitoring ketones. Urine testing is so easy to do and early detection can save a cat from an awful lot of distress - even save its life.

More useful forum stickies for you:

Are you testing your cat for ketones? If not, do it!

Forum sticky - DKA Info and Links

Just checking; did Sid test negative for urine ketones earlier today? Is he eating OK now?

FYI, here's a link to my Saoirse's 2014 spreadsheet. She was first treated with Caninsulin before (thankfully) switching to Lantus. There's very little BG info for the first few weeks of her Caninsulin treatment because the vet practice where she was diagnosed was completely hostile to my wish to home test and change Saoirse to a wet, low-carb diet. Thankfully there was a more diabetic-friendly practice near to me who were supportive of the diet change and where I learned the rudiments of BG testing.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1W_6vprqOticH1qB5duGq911swDj32Qw2olXPsmQS3CM/edit#gid=10

Saoirse's BG data are Alphatrak values. Her response to Caninsulin was fairly typical of feline diabetics (though some cats do get greater duration). Saoirse tended to nadir early in the cycle (+3 hrs after dose admin). You'll also be able to see the difference in her insulin requirements when she was first being fed Hill's w/d dry diabetic diet (not my choice!) and how quickly her BG levels got closer to the normoglycaemic range with the change to wet, low carb food (initially Purina DM canned).

Most members here have spreadsheets linked into their signatures. If you do a search on the Feline Health Forum for either Caninsulin or Vetsulin it should bring up some threads by users of this insulin and that should help you get hold of other cats' spreadsheets to have a gander at. You can set up a spreadsheet for Sid. The spreadsheet is invaluable in helping you learn how Sid responds to his insulin and acts as an invaluable guide for dose adjustment and progress monitoring. Here are the links to help you:

FDMB Spreadsheet Setup Guide

Understanding the Spreadsheet Grid

Slow and steady is the best way to move toward regulation. Assuming an uncomplicated case, a suitably moderate starting dose is increased in small increments with a period where the dose is held for several days between adjustments to allow the dose to settle. Adjusting in small increments reduces the likelihood of skipping over an effective, safe dose (the result of which would be to drive BG levels upwards with a much greater potential for unexpected hypos). Here's another forum sticky about Vetsulin/Caninsulin:

FDMB Vetsulin/Caninsulin Guide (reference numbers are for human meters measuring in mg/dL).

Dosing for Caninsulin is based on preshot but with a nod to nadir BG - especially when the nadirs start going into the normoglycaemic range. To achieve tighter regulation a switch to a gentler, longer-acting insulin is usually necessary.

Some cats do well on Caninsulin; others not so much. Keep an eye on Sid's clinical signs as well as his BG numbers. If he gets sleepy/lethargic mid-cycle but is brighter towards the end of a cycle it may be that Caninsulin is too harsh on his system. If so, a switch to a gentler insulin like Prozinc might suit him better.


Mogs
.
 
He ate is breakfast really well
But tonight he has only eaten maybe 4/10 of his dinner :/

I'm worried again about what's going on!

He had his antisickness pill just before his dinner.

He's now under my flat mates bed just sitting...
 
Hi Sophie,

Firstly, which anti-nausea med is Sid on? Also how long before his dinner did you give it to him? (Tablet or injection?)

Secondly, have you tested Sid for ketones today? If yes, what was the result?

Thirdly, has Sid had AM and PM doses of Caninsulin today?


Mogs
.
 
Hi Sophie,

Firstly, which anti-nausea med is Sid on? Also how long before his dinner did you give it to him? (Tablet or injection?)

Secondly, have you tested Sid for ketones today? If yes, what was the result?

Thirdly, has Sid had AM and PM doses of Caninsulin today?


Mogs
.
Hey :)
He's on maropitant and he got it right before his dinner in a little ball of food.
He ate about 50% of his dinner and is now just not interested so is hiding under he bed out the way.

He was ketone negative this morning and hasn't peed since so cannot check again.

He had am insulin and pm as when I gave it he was eating well then he stopped

I know the pill will take time to have an effect but also worried as it shows he's still feeling sick when not covered by maropitant. I don't want that masking anything.
 
Check my previous post for info on meters, e.g. Accu-Chek Aviva, plus how to save money on supplies.

@Elizabeth and Bertie - can you recommend other glucometers available in the UK, please?

FDMB quotes the normal reference range for cat BG as measured on a human meter as 50-120mg/dL (divide these values by 18 to get the mmol/L equivalents). For general information, I've attached a copy of the published Roomp-Rand Tight Regulation Protocol study (for Lantus & Levemir). It will give you an idea of key reference range values (and shows the scientific basis for the human meter reference range used at FDMB).


Mogs
.
Mogs - sorry to ask but are you able to link a thread about UK glucometers on the Welcome forum here? Several people posted on that and I'd link it myself but can't figure out how to do so on iPad (my only computer). The thread was started on August 28... if you can find it, it might save repeated posts....?
Thanks :-)
 
He was ketone negative this morning
Very encouraging news.

He ate about 50% of his dinner and is now just not interested so is hiding under he bed out the way.
That's quite typical behaviour when pancreatitis is in play (hiding may be due to marked nausea and/or pain). I really do think it would be a good idea to do the pancreatitis SNAP test, Sophie (with a Spec fPL as a follow-up if the SNAP test is positive).

I know the pill will take time to have an effect but also worried as it shows he's still feeling sick when not covered by maropitant. I don't want that masking anything.
I took the same approach with Saoirse's treatment for pancreatitis initially; I would give the meds on an as-needed basis (waited until appetite started to reduce or slight clinical signs of nausea reappeared before giving next dose) . I needed to do that to try to determine which foods she could best tolerate.

If you run the SNAP fPL it would tell you straight away whether pancreatitis is the key issue behind Sid's nausea and hiding behaviour. You'd then be able to treat both pain (with bupe) and nausea (Cerenia helps but ondansetron really is better) with greater peace of mind. It is good that Sid still has an appetite. If it is pancreatitis and you don't get the nausea and any pain controlled quickly it could lead to Sid becoming inappetent; you could then potentially be faced with even worse nausea problems, a longer-lasting flare, and it would make insulin administration a complete nightmare. (Been there.)

NB - there is a major drug interaction between ondansetron and tramadol (can induce serotonin syndrome) so if you need to give pain relief alongside ondansetron bupe is OK. (See IDEXX guidelines.)


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Hi Sophie,

Hope Sid is doing OK. It would be great to get an update on his progress. (We worry about all the kitties!)


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Hello!!

Sorry Ive been so busy with Mr. Sid and uni that I hadnt managed to get onto the page!
You guys are always so helpful and caring :)

SO UPDATES!
Mr.Sid stopped Cerenia on Wednesday and eats like a wild animal which is amazing! and has not vomited since.
I started Sid of FortiFlora on Friday & also on a giardia dose of Fenbendazole for 5 days (this is day 3)
Today he passed his first SOLID POO it was normal!! :D the best thing Ive seen all week! Before that every day was large bowel diarrhoea.

He is drinking around 200-250ml per day which is quite a bit over his calculated intake of 175ml
And he urinates around 3 times a day but there is a lot of it (today ketone negative and glucose +++)

Today was his first glucose curve and the 1unit bit isnt cutting it:
upload_2016-10-16_18-10-17.png

This is how his curve turned out: he was fed at around 6:45 and Insulin administered at 7:00.
So having a dicussion with the vet at uni tomorrow to increase his caninsulin.

Ive also collected todays urine to run it into uni tomorrow to do a sneaky urinalysis to gauge his kidney function and check in case of UTI.

If he goes downhill like he did last week then yes I will defo be doing the PLI.
 
That's not a bad curve considering he is just starting out, don't be tempted to raise the dose too far or too fast, it can take a few weeks to start to get good numbers. Can you set up a spreadsheet like we use as it makes it easier to give advice if you need it in a hurry. Sid is gorgeous and lucky to have you! Good work.
 
That's not a bad curve considering he is just starting out, don't be tempted to raise the dose too far or too fast, it can take a few weeks to start to get good numbers. Can you set up a spreadsheet like we use as it makes it easier to give advice if you need it in a hurry. Sid is gorgeous and lucky to have you! Good work.
Thanks for the advice yeah if there was an increase we'd probably go to 1.5Units BID and check it out after another week.
How do I set up spreadsheet like you guys have? :)
 
Good to hear from you, Sophie and I'm glad that Sid is doing well clinically. Yes, an FDMB spreadsheet is the easiest way for us to see how Sid is doing at a glance. :)
 
Hi Sophie,

So pleased to hear such a positive update about Sid! (Anti-jinx! ;)) Yay for the solid poop! :woot:

Well done getting Sid's spreadsheet up and running. Sending scritches for your little cutie.


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Hey guys!

How is everyone and their kitties? :)

Sids still going, lovely little monster that he is !

He's on 4iu caninsulin twice daily now and he's still not controlled very well

However 3 weeks ago I changed him onto wet food only: butchers classic, I was wanting to know what you guys thought of this diet?
Also what other ones would be good to give him as he seems to be reluctant to eat it and I don't know if it's he doesn't like it or just isn't as hungry...

Finally yesterday and today he has been vomittinf and had diarrhoea :( worried he's slipping also eating very little
 
Hi Sophie,

Here's a link to the thread with the UK diabetic-friendly food list:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-including-link-to-low-carb-food-list.137376/

With the inappetence, vomiting and diarrhoea in play it could be a food upset but it's important to also check ketone status and advisable to check for pancreatitis. These links may be helpful to you:

Nausea symptoms and treatments

IDEXX pancreatitis treatment guidelines

If Sid is nauseated then Cerenia can help with nausea and vomiting in the first instance. If Cerenia is not sufficient to control nausea then ondansetron may be more effective (generic is very affordable; branded version, Zofran, is ludicrously expensive). Bristol Laboratories generic ondansetron seems to suit cats better - less constipating than other generics - but other brands are available.

Probiotics may help with the diarrhoea.

If you're having trouble regulating him on Caninsulin then switching to a longer-acting insulin (Prozinc or Lantus) may help matters.


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