9-9 Bailey AMPS 117, +5=62

[Chris & China (GA)]

I’m not really worried about myself though.

You need to be. I'm serious. Cat bites are serious and can very easily send you to the hospital where you may need to be admitted to get IV antibiotics. This can happen in less than 24 hours. Who's going to take care of Bailey if you're in the hospital?

Is it possible that you'll be just fine? Yes...but it's a lot better to be pro-active and make sure you stay healthy. Hopefully your regular doctor knows how serious cat bites can be and will order you some oral antibiotics

 

[Kiera]

Here's something I wrote up for others for testing...maybe it'll help you too!

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you.

Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) works well

For new kitties, using a heavier gauge lancet is also really helpful. A 25-28 gauge lancet pokes a bigger "hole" than a 31-33 gauge lancet does, so look for "Alternate Site testing" lancets that are usually a lower number

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!

There are more testing tips here:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

Cat bites can be more dangerous than dog bites. So just watch for any signs of infection. Clean it twice a day with hydrogen peroxide. Call your doctor if it gets hot and red as then you might need an antibiotic. It will probably be fine.

So sort about your vet experience.

Not to ignore the cat bite issue but I have bigger problems. +5 is 62. Now what?

 

[Kiera]

It’s the same color green in the spreadsheet so maybe I’m worried for nothing. is this number good? Bad? I thought lower than 60 was hypo… is that not right?

 

[Daddy Jack's Mommy (GA)]

Hypo is 38 on a human meter, and you don't need to pull out the higher carbs until he hits 50 and that's just to prevent it from going down lower. In and of itself, 50 is not dangerous.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Not to worry. . Lower than 50 is a low number but not necessarily hypo. Feed a little mc ir slightly higher carbs like 9-10% and test in 30 minutes.

Normal on a human meter is 50-100.

 

[Kiera]

I wish I knew for sure how much insulin I shot this morning. These numbers mean very different things depending on if it was 0.25 or 1 units, right?

 

[tiffmaxee]

Hypo is 38 on a human meter, and you don't need to pull out the higher carbs until he hits 50 and that's just to prevent it from going down lower. In and of itself, 50 is not dangerous.

Again 38 is a low number that calls for a reduction in dose even for long term diabetics. but not always a symptomatic hypo. Under 50 calls for either mc or hc depending on when in the cycle. Every cat is different. Max never had a symptomatic hypo yet did drop under 40 at times. Other cats have been symptomatic at that bg. The meter have a 20% variance but that can be high or low.

 

[tiffmaxee]

I wish I knew for sure how much insulin I shot this morning. These numbers mean very different things depending on if it was 0.25 or 1 units, right?

Don’t worry about that now. You just want to make sure he doesn’t go much lower. He might soon hit nadir, the lowest point in the cycle, and start heading back up.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

For the future pick these up
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs




Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs



Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

At least if you have these you can just get the can and squeeze out the gravy if he didn't want to eat that much of the food.
Just wanted to make it easier for you

Or any other med and high carb foods from the food link
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

 

[tiffmaxee]

Another test please.

 

[Kiera]

Another test please.

59 at +7.

 

[tiffmaxee]

More food and test in an hour. That’s good he’s staying about the same. You are doing great.

 

[Kiera]

I guess what I don’t understand is why I’m giving insulin when his numbers have been around 120 without it. Aren’t those numbers ok?

He doesn’t act like himself when we are at these lower numbers. He’s soooo lethargic. I don’t think he likes the way he feels at these numbers. Of course I don’t know that for sure. I can’t ask him. It just seems like it.

 

[Kiera]

Also, I keep finding him in weird places. Like sitting facing the wall or sitting near the water fountain staring at it but not drinking. He’s been drinking so I’m not worried about that. At first I thought something was wrong with the water fountain even though I clean it 2-3 times a week. Anyway I decided to clean it again to see if that was it but it wasn’t. He just likes watching the running water today. It’s weird.

One last random observation is a couple times today he was sticking his tongue out. Not for too long. Like 30 seconds but something else I’ve never seen him do in 12 years I’ve had him. I’m not sure what any of it means. Maybe nothing. The blood tests are stressing him out so that could maybe be causing the odd behavior.

When I was ignorant to home testing and we started insulin, he was doing great. I didn’t notice any negative side effects until the beginning of this month when I started noticing the symptoms. Thats when I got the meter and determined he was very low (or at least I thought it was too low but now I’m not sure).

Although I guess it’s possible I missed symptoms because I didn’t know there was a risk of anything bad happening on insulin so I wasn’t obsessively staring at him like I am now. Who knows. I’m probably overthinking things

I wish I had numbers for the month prior to this but unfortunately I don’t.

 

[tiffmaxee]

If he’s going to go off insulin he needs to be mostly between 50-100. It’s very possible he will go into remission but we need to see how he does and monitor. It would have been best to try a diet change first, before starting insulin. That’s why we want to first take him down to .25. If he stays under 100 for 7 days or drops under 50 we will decrease again. He very well could be off insulin in days to weeks or need a small amount of support for awhile.

When my cat was diagnosed I didn’t test initially. I was afraid he would hide all the time. I went for a nadir check a couple times a week. He then thought he was in remission and stopped insulin for three weeks. He wasn’t in remission and had to start again. By then I had read a lot and started testing.

 

[Kiera]

More food and test in an hour. That’s good he’s staying about the same. You are doing great.

I wish I didn’t have to do so many tests. It’s really upsetting him. I’m sure it’ll get easier with time but it just seems like a lot all at once. Do I have to do so many because of my possible mistake with the dose today? I’m still not sure what I gave him.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Also, I keep finding him in weird places. Like sitting facing the wall or sitting near the water fountain staring at it but not drinking. He’s been drinking so I’m not worried about that. At first I thought something was wrong with the water fountain even though I clean it 2-3 times a week. Anyway I decided to clean it again to see if that was it but it wasn’t. He just likes watching the running water today. It’s weird.

One last random observation is a couple times today he was sticking his tongue out. Not for too long. Like 30 seconds but something else I’ve never seen him do in 12 years I’ve had him. I’m not sure what any of it means. Maybe nothing. The blood tests are stressing him out so that could maybe be causing the odd behavior.

When I was ignorant to home testing and we started insulin, he was doing great. I didn’t notice any negative side effects until the beginning of this month when I started noticing the symptoms. Thats when I got the meter and determined he was very low (or at least I thought it was too low but now I’m not sure).

Although I guess it’s possible I missed symptoms because I didn’t know there was a risk of anything bad happening on insulin so I wasn’t obsessively staring at him like I am now. Who knows. I’m probably overthinking things

I wish I had numbers for the month prior to this but unfortunately I don’t.

Sticking out his tongue is not normal. Does his breathing seem to be more rapid than usual?

 

[Kiera]

If he’s going to go off insulin he needs to be mostly between 50-100. It’s very possible he will go into remission but we need to see how he does and monitor. It would have been best to try a diet change first, before starting insulin. That’s why we want to first take him down to .25. If he stays under 100 for 7 days or drops under 50 we will decrease again. He very well could be off insulin in days to weeks or need a small amount of support for awhile.

When my cat was diagnosed I didn’t test initially. I was afraid he would hide all the time. I went for a nadir check a couple times a week. He then thought he was in remission and stopped insulin for three weeks. He wasn’t in remission and had to start again. By then I had read a lot and started testing.

Next time, when I know the amount of insulin I gave him was right can I just test AMPS and +6 and then PMPS and +2 or something like that?

 

[Kiera]

Sticking out his tongue is not normal. Does his breathing seem to be more rapid than usual?

It’s funny you ask that. No his breathing is normal. I actually counted because when I googled the tongue thing, the only info I found related to breathing. I can’t remember what it was though. The number of breaths he’s taking per minute is in the “normal range”. I never counted before so I have nothing to compare to. However, when I observe him it doesn’t seem like he’s breathing any different than normal. Doesn’t seem like he’s having any difficulty or struggling

 

[Kiera]

What do you think it means? The only other time I’ve seen something like that is when he’s grooming and he’ll have a small part of his tongue out if he gets interrupted. I’ll put my finger there and he immediately puts it back in. But when I put my finger there this time he kept it out. That’s why I thought it was especially odd. After a minute or 2 though he wasn’t doing it anymore.

 

[tiffmaxee]

We just need to keep him safe. I’d test amps, pmps and +2 both cycles. If either +2 is lower you may need a test sooner. If not +5-6 would be good. Since he got a larger dose and he dropped lower than normal you needed to test more today. You will shoot .25 tonight if he’s even high enough to shoot.

 

[tiffmaxee]

What do you think it means? The only other time I’ve seen something like that is when he’s grooming and he’ll have a small part of his tongue out if he gets interrupted. I’ll put my finger there and he immediately puts it back in. But when I put my finger there this time he kept it out. That’s why I thought it was especially odd. After a minute or 2 though he wasn’t doing it anymore.

I’m not sure. To check the respiration rate you count while he’s sleeping. It’s good he’s not breathing fast or struggling. That’s what I was worried about too.

 

[Kiera]

We jus need to keep him safe. I’d test amps, pmps and +2 both cycles. If either +2 is lower you may need a test sooner. If not +5-6 would be good. Since he got a larger dose and he dropped lower than normal you needed to test more today. You will shoot .25 tonight if he’s even high enough to shoot.

Thanks! Just in case I don’t get a response right away later… what numbers would be high enough to shoot versus skip? Or would I give less insulin instead of skipping? It’s all so confusing

 

[tiffmaxee]

He was diagnosed8/5? . How many hours until shot time? Either Bhooma or I will check on you then. Being so new and with a bigger dose than we wanted today I don’t think you should shoot if under 120.

 

[Kiera]

I’m not sure. To check the respiration rate you count while he’s sleeping. It’s good he’s not breathing fast or struggling. That’s what I was worried about too.

I cannot get a break today! LOL. I had left out a vanilla ice cream cup because I’m weird and I like to eat it when it’s kinda melted. I left the room for five minutes to do laundry and when I come back I see him eating it. I hope he doesn’t get sick! I know I probably shouldn’t be laughing but it was so cute! He had ice cream on his whiskers

Is that a big deal? I just checked and it only has 4% carbs for the entire cup and he certainly didn’t eat that much. I heard people say that cats are allergic to dairy but I didn’t know that and I have given fat free skim milk and cheese many times in the past. I only give a little (like 2 teaspoons or a small corner of a cheese slice that’s also from skim milk). He’s never once been sick after. So is that allowed?

I feel like he was eating the ice cream because melted it reminded him of milk which I haven’t been giving him since he was diagnosed. Poor guy has lost a lot of his favorite things and he doesn’t understand why

 

[Kiera]

He was diagnosed8/5? . How many hours until shot time? Either Bhooma or I will check on you then. Being so new and with a bigger dose than we wanted today I don’t think you should shoot if under 120.

Yes that’s the scary part. He was diagnosed a month ago and I was shooting two units, twice a day until September 3rd.
September 1st PM is when I started noticing symptoms. When I was seeing symptoms still on September 3 AM, I did research and found this site and got the meter that day. My first test ever that night scared me.

I knew something was wrong those couple of days and when I read about home testing, I literally went and got my meter that same hour.

we are still quite a way from PMPS. 4 hours to be exact. Unless you think I can do 30 minutes early tonight as I slowly get back to a better schedule? Maybe I shouldn’t tonight though since I could’ve given him more insulin than I intended

 

[Kiera]

He was diagnosed8/5? . How many hours until shot time? Either Bhooma or I will check on you then. Being so new and with a bigger dose than we wanted today I don’t think you should shoot if under 120.

I’m still not sure if I gave a bigger dose. I literally keep going back-and-forth. I can’t see myself being that dumb but at the time I really couldn’t remember and I still can’t. So there’s no way to know what I gave him. For safety purposes, I was just going to assume I gave the larger amount. It certainly makes understanding his numbers more difficult when I’m not sure what I gave him.
I’m having a horrible day! That’s an understatement

 

[Kiera]

If I had to guess one way or the other, it would definitely be towards the higher dose because I didn’t smell anything in the sink like usual. It’s just not like me so I’m still questioning it though

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

I heard people say that cats are allergic to dairy but I didn’t know that and I have given fat free skim milk and cheese many times in the past.

Not all cats are lactose intolerant. If he's had a little sip of fat free milk in the past and it didn't cause him any problems, there's no reason you can't let him have a little sip again (or little bite of cheese). There is a little bit of sugar in milk (lactose is literally "milk sugar") so just as a special treat now and then.

 

[tiffmaxee]

If I had to guess one way or the other, it would definitely be towards the higher dose because I didn’t smell anything in the sink like usual. It’s just not like me so I’m still questioning it though

Stop beating yourself up. He’s safe. He’s doing well.

 

[tiffmaxee]

I cannot get a break today! LOL. I had left out a vanilla ice cream cup because I’m weird and I like to eat it when it’s kinda melted. I left the room for five minutes to do laundry and when I come back I see him eating it. I hope he doesn’t get sick! I know I probably shouldn’t be laughing but it was so cute! He had ice cream on his whiskers

Is that a big deal? I just checked and it only has 4% carbs for the entire cup and he certainly didn’t eat that much. I heard people say that cats are allergic to dairy but I didn’t know that and I have given fat free skim milk and cheese many times in the past. I only give a little (like 2 teaspoons or a small corner of a cheese slice that’s also from skim milk). He’s never once been sick after. So is that allowed?

I feel like he was eating the ice cream because melted it reminded him of milk which I haven’t been giving him since he was diagnosed. Poor guy has lost a lot of his favorite things and he doesn’t understand why

Not to worry. I turned my back while my two were eating and my girl with allergies might have eaten what she shouldn’t. At least I hope that happened and not that I have to change her food again because her EGC is causing her to reject another food. Things happen.

 

[Kiera]

Not all cats are lactose intolerant. If he's had a little sip of fat free milk in the past and it didn't cause him any problems, there's no reason you can't let him have a little sip again (or little bite of cheese). There is a little bit of sugar in milk (lactose is literally "milk sugar") so just as a special treat now and then.

Not to worry. I turned my back while my two were eating and my girl with allergies might have eaten what she shouldn’t. At least I hope that happened and not that I have to change her food again because her EGC is causing her to reject another food. Things happen.

+10 is 79.

I really don’t think I will be giving insulin tonight. If that’s going to be the case, I don’t want to do a PMPS. He’s been through quite the ordeal with testing today.
What do you think? Can I skip it all?

I know these numbers are considered good. However, it seems like Bailey doesn’t feel good when he’s below 100. He was doing so much better the past few days without insulin. Today, not so much… It’s hard to explain. It’s not just that he’s lethargic, but he’s “off” in general. His personality disappears and I no longer see the cat I love. This is exactly how he was acting when this all started on September 1. That’s the reason I did a Google search and found this site (and got my meter). You know the story by now.

So I guess my question is, is this normal? I’m assuming I’m giving insulin because if his numbers are not below 100, then the hyperglycemia can easily come back, right? So I don’t have a choice? Because if it’s possible he can maintain numbers in the low or mid 100s without insulin and not be so blah… wouldn’t that be better? I don’t know. I just feel bad for him. From an observation standpoint, it looks like I’m hurting him more than helping lately with insulin.

What do you think? Do your cats act this way with insulin?

 

[Kiera]

Are numbers in the 100 - 200 range harmful like hyperglycemia? Or in general? just out of curiosity…

I’m asking only to understand why certain numbers are so important. The only assumption I can make is that if they are in the 100-200 range they tend to go hyperglycemic again without insulin.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Normal bg is 50-100 on a human meter. If Bailey needs insulin his numbers will rise without it so here’s my suggestion although others might disagree. Don’t give insulin tonight. Feed him dinner and test 3-4 hours later. See if the bg comes down. Then test in the morning. If around 100 or less do the same thing. Perhaps it will turn out that the diet change alone will work. If his numbers go up above 120 you might need to try a tiny dose. It won’t hurt to try this and see.if you want a stron remission you will continue with insulin if over 100: BG OF 200 is not normal. If that continues e entually he will be even higher and his insulin needs will go up more than his current needs.

 

[Bandit's Mom]

If you are giving insulin tonight it will have to be 12 hours after the AM dose and you would have to stay up getting tests.
Alternatively, skip and shoot at a reasonable hour in the morning.

Keira, I have explained a lot of stuff several times in the previous post. You have been through an ordeal today and I suspect most of what we are saying is not registering. Maybe tomorrow you can read the whole of your previous thread again?

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

It's always good to book mark posts so you can go back and read them

 

[Kiera]

Normal bg is 50-100 on a human meter. If Bailey needs insulin his numbers will rise without it so here’s my suggestion although others might disagree. Don’t give insulin tonight. Feed him dinner and test 3-4 hours later. See if the bg comes down. Then test in the morning. If around 100 or less do the same thing. Perhaps it will turn out that the diet change alone will work. If his numbers go up above 120 you might need to try a tiny dose. It won’t hurt to try this and see.if you want a stron remission you will continue with insulin if over 100: BG OF 200 is not normal. If that continues e entually he will be even higher and his insulin needs will go up more than his current needs.

Ok thanks.

I got these new urine test strips in the mail today because the ones I have for ketones are almost gone. I didn’t realize it tested for 10 things total. No just ketones. I don’t even know what these things mean. But there’s a line that has a cat with a smiley face. Those are the results you want. Then there’s readings with a cat that has a sad face and I have a couple with a sad face. Now I’m stressed about something I don’t even understand what. I sound crazy, I know.

I don’t even have a vet anymore. I guess I’ll try another vet. The problem is I don’t want to keep wasting my money to find no one‘s capable of helping me as well as you guys can.

So can I ask about a couple things on these strips to see if maybe it’s related to diabetes? Because I don’t know. If not, I’ll drop it since it’s off top and I think I read we shouldn’t discuss things unrelated to diabetes. Makes sense. I just don’t have any one else to ask

 

[Kiera]

It's always good to book mark posts so you can go back and read them

@Bandit's Mom
I apologize if I missed something or am repeating myself. I don’t know what you guys are referring to. I’ll admit, I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed so maybe it’s not all absorbing but I didn’t think I was ignoring information that was already given to me. And my first thread yesterday I spent a lot of time writing my first messages but then everyone kept asking me questions I already answered. So I’m kind of feeling the same way. Some questions I still didn’t get an answer to. Not anyone’s fault. It’s my own for jumping all over the place. I bet it’s impossible to follow and I don’t blame the nice people trying to help me. My thoughts are racing, that’s all.

So I’ll just stop posting for tonight as least until I figure it out. Because I was a little surprised to read that. Very sorry! You guys have been great. I will look for my mistakes and then keep you posted. Have a good night or day or whatever it is wherever you are! You’ve been a big help so far!

 

[Bandit's Mom]

I have a suggestion and I don't know if others will agree. Why not take a couple of days (or more) just getting into the routine with Bailey of taking up food 2 hours before AMPS/PMPS and getting some tests without insulin? Once you get comfortable with these aspects, you can add insulin into the mix and you may find it less stressful?

I am sharing the spreadsheets of some cats who started on a higher dose and high carb food like Bailey did and suddenly saw lower numbers after a diet change. They stayed on insulin for a short time till their numbers were in the normal range and they could go off insulin and have a strong remission.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...gGKn36vuDpJ8XWL-iT_Sa0peM8/edit#gid=361360320
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IxtQMNTAGefIAx4SSsT91PYExkdgC1SCPUutSrpyaKk/edit#gid=0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...1lSmSbh5ZbZLmMhk63Uzh__aaL2G3XMWMZilf/pubhtml

As you can see, that involved shooting lower and lower doses and testing to see which one was good for them. You cannot give insulin and not test - as you yourself know now.

We have very little data on Bailey and our best guess, based on the information we do have, is that he needs insulin for some more time to get his numbers into the normal range and to be considered in remission. We can start with 0.25U or 0.1U or a drop (without data, we are as good as throwing darts) but to give insulin we will need for you to:

(a) Shoot 12 hours apart (more or less)
(b) Take food away 2 hours before the shot
(c) Get tests - preshots & mid-cycle tests - in both cycles.

Without this it is not possible for us to assess how much insulin he needs.

 

[Laurasboyz]

It's always good to book mark posts so you can go back and read them

Diane, dumb question here - how do you bookmark a post?
I know I've appeared from no where to ask this question but I read this and thought it was a fantastic idea - I just don't see a bookmark button?
You'll probably explain and the answer is right in front of me, but I don't see it.
Laura

PS
Kiera, we've all been where you were yesterday - I once drove home from work mid-morning to check on my old cat because I was convinced I'd overdosed him in my morning rush out the door.
He was fine... looked at me as much to say "What the hell are you doing home?"
Don't be hard on yourself... this is a lot to wrap your head around.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

@Laurasboyz Hi I use a tablet and all the up top where you see the pic of the cat and the little bottle above that is where Kiera has her thread there is a little star I tap the star and it turns gray , it will go into my bookmarks
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/9-9-bailey-amps-117-5-62.252712/#post-2851323 This is what I'm talking about

 

[Laurasboyz]

@Laurasboyz Hi I use a tablet and all the up top where you see the pic of the cat and the little bottle above that is where Kiera has her thread there is a little star I tap the star and it turns gray , it will go into my bookmarks
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/9-9-bailey-amps-117-5-62.252712/#post-2851323 This is what I'm talking about

Ahhh... I get it, I think - you bookmark it with your browser, like you can/would for any page you want to keep.
I was looking within the message board itself, thinking there was a place for bookmarked pages, like how the board keeps all your content accessible.
Thanks for letting me know - it's a great idea, I just never thought outside the box, so to speak.

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

Kiera – this is a peer-reviewed forum and we cannot give advice in a personal message so I'm posting your PM (personal message) and my response in your thread.

Hi!

I was not wanting to give insulin based on the numbers I’ve been seeing but everyone told me I needed to.
So I did. That was before I saw your message about skipping.
Do you disagree with the advice I’ve been given?

I’m trying to learn as much as I can. It would be nice to hear another perspective. I’m sure there isn’t one right way to do things and ultimately I need to decide for myself. However, hearing from other people always helps. There’s no such thing as too much info.

Here is the post I believe you were referring to:

I would suggest not shooting. Bailey's numbers are not high enough and you are off schedule.

But I'd like to suggest this experiment: test immediately – right after he has eaten. Then test again in an hour (+1), then at +3 or +4. I have a feeling that Bailey's pancreas is producing some insulin – just maybe not quite enough. This experiment will tell us more.

You can try freeze-dried cat treats. They contain a single freeze-dried protein as a reward given after the testing.

Also one of the suggestions here might help over the long haul.

• Suggestions on How to Stimulate Kitty's Appetite

Since you were so far off schedule, I thought it would be a good idea to skip and take the day to do the experiment mentioned above. The experiment, if enough tests are done, can possibly tell us if the pancreas is working (just possibly not enough as it should).

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

@Kiera
The experiment I mentioned above does not necessarily mean that Bailey does not need or should not have insulin. It is designed to give us a bigger picture of the situation.

It could can that Bailey can be diet controlled. It could be that Bailey's pancreas needs a bit of help from insulin. The more data we have, the better we can help you.

 

[Kiera]

I have a suggestion and I don't know if others will agree. Why not take a couple of days (or more) just getting into the routine with Bailey of taking up food 2 hours before AMPS/PMPS and getting some tests without insulin? Once you get comfortable with these aspects, you can add insulin into the mix and you may find it less stressful?

I am sharing the spreadsheets of some cats who started on a higher dose and high carb food like Bailey did and suddenly saw lower numbers after a diet change. They stayed on insulin for a short time till their numbers were in the normal range and they could go off insulin and have a strong remission.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...gGKn36vuDpJ8XWL-iT_Sa0peM8/edit#gid=361360320
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IxtQMNTAGefIAx4SSsT91PYExkdgC1SCPUutSrpyaKk/edit#gid=0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...1lSmSbh5ZbZLmMhk63Uzh__aaL2G3XMWMZilf/pubhtml

As you can see, that involved shooting lower and lower doses and testing to see which one was good for them. You cannot give insulin and not test - as you yourself know now.

We have very little data on Bailey and our best guess, based on the information we do have, is that he needs insulin for some more time to get his numbers into the normal range and to be considered in remission. We can start with 0.25U or 0.1U or a drop (without data, we are as good as throwing darts) but to give insulin we will need for you to:

(a) Shoot 12 hours apart (more or less)
(b) Take food away 2 hours before the shot
(c) Get tests - preshots & mid-cycle tests - in both cycles.

Without this it is not possible for us to assess how much insulin he needs.

I have a suggestion and I don't know if others will agree. Why not take a couple of days (or more) just getting into the routine with Bailey of taking up food 2 hours before AMPS/PMPS and getting some tests without insulin? Once you get comfortable with these aspects, you can add insulin into the mix and you may find it less stressful?

I am sharing the spreadsheets of some cats who started on a higher dose and high carb food like Bailey did and suddenly saw lower numbers after a diet change. They stayed on insulin for a short time till their numbers were in the normal range and they could go off insulin and have a strong remission.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...gGKn36vuDpJ8XWL-iT_Sa0peM8/edit#gid=361360320
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IxtQMNTAGefIAx4SSsT91PYExkdgC1SCPUutSrpyaKk/edit#gid=0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...1lSmSbh5ZbZLmMhk63Uzh__aaL2G3XMWMZilf/pubhtml

As you can see, that involved shooting lower and lower doses and testing to see which one was good for them. You cannot give insulin and not test - as you yourself know now.

We have very little data on Bailey and our best guess, based on the information we do have, is that he needs insulin for some more time to get his numbers into the normal range and to be considered in remission. We can start with 0.25U or 0.1U or a drop (without data, we are as good as throwing darts) but to give insulin we will need for you to:

(a) Shoot 12 hours apart (more or less)
(b) Take food away 2 hours before the shot
(c) Get tests - preshots & mid-cycle tests - in both cycles.

Without this it is not possible for us to assess how much insulin he needs.

This was very helpful! I appreciate you offering a way for me to ease into things, which I thought sounded like a good idea. However, after looking through the spreadsheets you shared with me, I felt more comfortable with shooting the low numbers. So that’s what I did today.

This message helped more than you know. Thank you for once again taking the time to provide such detailed information!
I know I upset you yesterday by asking things you had already answered. I hope you don’t think I’m taking anything you’re saying for granted. Since it’s all so new, I’ll admit that some of the information goes in one ear and out the other, but it’s not intentional. I didn’t realize I was doing that.

Bailey is my heart and when I get worried about him… it’s hard to think clearly. I will continue to re-read your messages until everything sticks. Just wanted to thank you again and hope you aren’t mad at me.