9/5 Pumbaa - Syringe questions

Status
Not open for further replies.
Pumbaa

Pumbaa

Member Since 2012
I really liked the accuracy of the Monojects, but know that some people (Marge, etc.) got batches where the doses were compromised. I didn't have those hub problems, and loved the skinny plunger head which made it so easy to dose, as well as the non-sticky plunger.

Many of you have love the Terumo syringes as well, but I've read a lot of comments about how if you even look at those plungers, they depress. (I.e. that is how slick they are.)

My main concerns with syringes are:

1) Getting air bubbles out;

2) Having the guidelines accurately printed on the syringes and having the zero line be the actual zero line 99.99% of the time;

3) Being able to accurately see the difference between a fat and a skinny dose;

4) Having the plunger move easily for drop-dosing.

Anyone want to give me their recommendations before I order new syringes to replace these crappy UltiCares? Much appreciated, in advance!

Suze
 
Personally I would stick with the monojects, after all the shots I have given they are still my faves, I've only had one box that I had problems with some of the needles being twisted. But that was one box in oh I don't know 50+. I think just like there is no best insulin there is no best syringe it is all about using what you are the most comfortable with, can afford, and your cat and you do well with.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Did you order a box of terumos to try out?

Those monojects are expensive. :o

If the terumo aren't your worst nightmare (for some unknown reason which I can't imagine at this point?) you could save a fortune using those.

If you still need more input, you should put Terumo vs Monojects in the title and/or post in the other forums. You really need input from Lantus users since many who like terumo seem to be using Levemir. Those insulin's are somewhat different in consistency/bubbles/beading/etc.

I can just see it now, you order the 3 pak of monojects and they turn out to be from the bad batch. And then you try to explain the *defect* to the manufacturer without mentioning it's for a cat. And they probably don't see it as a defect. Guess you tell them you can't get the dose right for your 8 year old. Just don't tell them "your 8 year old" has four legs. ;-)
 
The syringes are driving me nuts. I'm using Monojects, I order them from ADW for $15+. I saw one thread on FDMB where it was suggested that the syringes sold by these discount "stores" are more defective than the ones sold in pharmacies. Any one know if that is a fact?
I like the clear sharp marks on the Monojects, I really need this with my vision problems. But I'm fed up with the bubbles and the inaccurate marks. And, very often the ones that are marked accurately have either slanted hubs or plungers!! I get 15 - 40 good ones per box, I cannot afford to buy three or four boxes every month so I have to try to eyeball the dose on the mismarked syringes. Which is not working out at all.

I ordered a box of the Terumo's, besides bubbles and thick, inaccurate lines, there is also a rounded area in the hub and it seems to me that makes for inaccurate dosing. And yeah, the darn plunger has a mind of it's own. I let go of it and it pushed insulin back into the pen. Suze, if you want me to send you some to try out just let me know.

The Reli-Ons didn't work for me with the thick messy inaccurate lines, just too hard for me to eyeball a dose. And I tried another one...can't remember what, I think the name starts with S?
Ordered them from ADW, they are about the same as the Reli-Ons. Also tried the Walgreens brand, same story.

If you find some that actually "work" please let me know.
 
Julie and Eleanor said:
...I ordered a box of the Terumo's, besides bubbles and thick, inaccurate lines, there is also a rounded area in the hub and it seems to me that makes for inaccurate dosing. And yeah, the darn plunger has a mind of it's own. I let go of it and it pushed insulin back into the pen. Suze, if you want me to send you some to try out just let me know.
Click to expand...
So there are bad batches of terumo's also? Great. :roll:

The box of terumos I'm using is rather good. And I'm not even using calipers (yet). I've seen two out of 50 with the zero line below the "hub" or should I say the lack of a hub. I was able to easily subtract that much from the dose. And I had one with the slanted plunger but I *worked* it good and it flattened out. However I'm using Levemir. I lubricate the syringe first with .1 U and work it back and forth a dozen times before expelling and then slowing drawing in the dose to avoid bubbles. VERY slowly. Which works perfect with Levemir. But Lantus is so much thicker and stickier the bubbles work totally differently. I've never had a drop of Levemir leak out, and after reading about that I've been watching for it. I wonder if these terumos get ruined if they get too hot and warp? They are formed from hard plastic unlike everything else.

I had really good luck with the relions for more than a year and couldn't imagine what all the fuss was about. Then the last box I bought was all but unusable and I had to do something urgently, much like Suze now.

I think Marje and DH are pretty particular and they seem to be having good luck (so far) with the terumos. And most of her borg "collective" seems to like them too.

I used several boxes of monoject subQ "harpoons" before switching to terumo hypodermic needles (made in japan) and those are significantly better quality than the monoject (subQ) needles. Some of the monjects looked like they were already used they were so dull. But I've gone through about 10 boxes of the terumo needles and I don't remember one that didn't go in. The monojects were hard to insert and leaked half the time making subQ a real battle.

I hope I can continue to get good terumo syringes. What a pain. nailbite_smile
 
Dale 'n' Chip said:
...And I'm not even using calipers (yet).
Click to expand...
I went by Harbor Freight and I'm now using the digital caliper. :cool:

Wow! This should take the guesswork out and even allow for proportional dosing and microdosing. A nice enhancement for the terumos. Takes variable markings out of the picture entirely.

Another thing about the terumos, since there is no hub, there is really no easy way to expel bubbles without ejecting the entire dose. So it's important to draw the dose without bubbles in the first place. Easy enough to do with Levemir.

I have a bit of Lantus left, I may try to see if it's possible to draw Lantus without bubbles in the terumos.
 
Dale 'n' Chip said:
And most of her borg "collective" seems to like them too.
Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I see the reputation I didn't even know I had....including a collective....precedes me in Relaxed. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Suze...I can also send you some Terumos. They take a little getting used to but I am much, much happier with them than the MJs. I'm so glad to not be wondering how much insulin is in that MJ cone at the top and how it varies from syringe to syringe. I haven't had any problems with the Terumos leaking out. You do have to be careful when you are shooting to keep your hand away from the plunger until the needle is all the way in the cat because it doesn't take much for the plunger to glide downwards. I draw very slowly, too, but I also use Lev.

And on the condo linked in Dale's post.....please read my comments there. Doses should not be increased like that to account for the difference in syringes or barrel diameter unless you have used a micropipette to determine how much insulin you are actually shooting with the current syringe brand and then figure out how much that actually is with the new one. It's safer to shoot the same dose you are shooting now and then fine tune.

Dale...just saw your post. Glad you got the calipers. There is a way to expel the bubbles in the Terumos. If you get a bubble at the bottom, just flick it to the top, and then quickly pull the plunger in a tiny bit to catch it and then quickly but gently expel but don't push all of your dose out. Mike is even better at this than I am. I had hell getting bubbles out at first....now it's a piece of cake.
 
Thank you, all!

I haven't ordered yet...and appreciate all of the above input. That's interesting that different syringes work better with different insulins.

Geesh, is it too much to ask for a syringe that is easy to read, with consistent markings, etc.?

I think I might order both the Monojects and the Terumo's, as I am seriously considering switching Pumbaa to Levemir now that he only has one Lantus pen left. (Marje, thank you for the offer of the Terumo's but I need to order yesterday, so I'll just order both.)

Still swamped with work and on very tight deadlines, so haven't had much time to post here. Pumbaa is doing okay...other than bouncing into the reds again after getting greens. :(

Suze
 
Hi Suze, Ive been using the BD ever since day one as this is the only reliable brand selling here. Ive noticed different boxes may came from different manufacturing plants in near countries; some from SIngapore, Thailand, Malaysia. We dont have any half markings BD syringe here. To answer your question
1) Air bubbles- yes, I manage to get the bubbles out 99.9%
2) Accurate marking - I am using the caliper for measurement, so whatever marking on the syringe is just a quideline. Dont rely on it.
3) Difference btn fat & skinny dose - the caliper helped a lot as I am shaving & fattening with Rosy's dosage. No problem so far.
4) Plunger move easily- Yes, they are pretty smooth when moving. Only once in awhile that I find the syringe wonky.

So far with my experience with BD, it is made ok, not perfect but acceptable. There is almost no wasteage on the syringe. I got them from pharmacy store for a $145 HkD/box (about $18.7US)
 
Helen, I don't know how you all deal with calipers...I have a hard enough time dealing with the syringe! *LOL* But it looks like I am going to have to go this route if I want even, regular doses for Pumbaa since the syringes are so unreliable. That is so sad!

Thank you for the heads up on the BD syringes, as well!

Suze
 
Julie and Eleanor said:
I like the clear sharp marks on the Monojects, I really need this with my vision problems. But I'm fed up with the bubbles and the inaccurate marks. And, very often the ones that are marked accurately have either slanted hubs or plungers!! I get 15 - 40 good ones per box, I cannot afford to buy three or four boxes every month so I have to try to eyeball the dose on the mismarked syringes. Which is not working out at all.
Click to expand...
I, too, loved the clear, sharp marks on the Monojects, as well as the super thin plunger head. But how sad that your batch left bubbles and had inaccurate marks. My batch was absolutely perfect. The Relion's I had initially were the worst for mis-markings and cockeyed markings.

I guess it's the luck of the draw if you get good syringes or not when you order a new batch. The quality is only as good as the QC department at the manufacturing company. Although I can't see how this could ever be an issue since production machinery is set up to exacting standards, normally. Unless, like Julie suggested, ADW is getting inferior products to sell at discounted prices. I'd rather pay more for perfect syringes, than pay less and lose a lot of money throwing crappy syringes away and wasting precious insulin.

*sigh*

Suze
 
Finally ordered syringes yesterday...and ADW shipped within hours of receiving my order. Everything should be here Saturday.

I ordered 100 Monojects and 500 Terumos (cost per syringe went down a lot ordering 500). So I pray I like those Terumos!!!! *LOL*

600 syringes should last me nearly a year. I also ordered 1400 lancets. So, now that I've ordered all of these supplies, Pumbaa will probably go OTJ soon. Hahahahaha! <-- insert anti-jinx

Suze
 
Dale 'n' Chip said:
Dale 'n' Chip said:
I have a bit of Lantus left, I may try to see if it's possible to draw Lantus without bubbles in the terumos.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Dale, did you test this? I ordered both Monojects and Terumos...and will use the Monojects with the Lantus until I get my Levemir if need be.

Also, what digital calipers did you get at Harbor Freight?

Suze
 
Pumbaa said:
Unless, like Julie suggested, ADW is getting inferior products to sell at discounted prices.
Click to expand...

Suze.....no, ADW is not getting inferior products to sell at discounted prices. How do I know? Because Monoject sent me several free box of syringes...some were the same lot numbers as the ones from ADW and some were different. All of them were bad.

Good luck with the syringes. You do have to be patient with the Terumos but if you use calipers, I think you will find them easier to deal with in the long run.
 
Pumbaa said:
Dale, did you test this? I ordered both Monojects and Terumos...and will use the Monojects with the Lantus until I get my Levemir if need be.

Suze
Click to expand...
I didn't play with Lantus but the trick described by Marje does get the bubbles out of the Terumos. Tap the bubbles to the top, capture them by drawing in a larger bubble and push it out in a single motion. Very little dose lost.

Might as well get started with the Terumos and learn the ropes? It's hard to imagine you won't like them.
Pumbaa said:
Also, what digital calipers did you get at Harbor Freight?

Suze
Click to expand...
I took my 3X reading glasses to the store and opened every box of 4" and 6" Pittsburgh digital caliper on the shelf. I settled on this one (item#68304 with the grey plastic housing) because I liked it best after playing around with all of them a while. There was some variation in quality, so it might pay to get to the store and see what you are getting. The 4" (item#47256) should be more than enough if all you use it for is insulin dosing. For me, I thought the 6" was easier to handle. But they have a 90 day return policy, so you could probably try both if in doubt. I stopped short of pulling a syringe out of my pocket in the store. ;-)

Hopefully Marje can make a demo video for this, since some may think 3 hands are needed to dose with digital caliper. It took a little practice, but now I can draw any dose as if perfectly marked on the barrel.
 
When Mike gets home, I'll do the video. It would take four hands to draw the dose, measure with calipers, and record :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Marje, I'm really looking forward to a video on how to use calipers! Thank you in advance for doing that!

Suze
 
Hi Suze!

Two straight weeks and no Friday Night Diving? I see he decided to take a tiny dive on Tuesday night instead though. I was reading the SS notes, and yes, I think the red (413) was related to the 48 on Tuesday night. A delayed bounce that looks like it started on Wednesday at PMPS time and it looks like it cleared by AMPS yesterday?

Hope you get the syringe issue cleared up soon,

Carl
 
Carl: Do you miss the Friday night dive parties? *LOL* He did a pretty good job last night going from 222 to 95 in 3 hours. :roll:

And thank you...my syringe order is on the truck for delivery. I can't wait to get decent syringes again!!!!!!

Suze
 
Well, I was up till the wee hours with a couple other divers over in TR last night/this morning, so Pumbaa could have joined the party! 90s are awesome, but I'm sure they didn't grab your attention quite as much as a 40?

Carl
 
Carl, certainly not as exciting as a 40, but with Pumbaa, I never know when he's going to dive lower than that once he's started diving.

You're such a nice guy holding our hands during Friday night dive parties. (((HUGS)))
 
Got my new syringes today! I was optimistic due to the good reviews and ordered 500 of the Terumo's, which brought the price down to $0.116 per syringe. ($58.44 for 500, and since the order was over $100, I also got free shipping.)

My review after using the Terumo's for the first time:

Holy cow that plunger is slick! Just like I was warned. :) And the plunger head is nice and thin, and the marking on the syringe are thin, making it very, very easy to see how much you are dosing. (The Terumo's reminded me of the Monojects in this respect.)

The suction to draw the insulin into the syringe was great. Much, much better than the crappy Relions. But, the problem I had was withdrawing the syringe from the insulin pen...I must have let go of the plunger and it started going back down...I quickly withdrew the needle from the pen...hopefully before contaminating the rest of the insulin in the pen. :o :shock:

I had an air bubble to deal with, but I always overdraw a bit, and simply tapped it to the top, pulled the plunger out a tiny bit to cause more air to form at the top, then depressed the plunger very slowly to get rid of the air bubble and get the dose to the skinny 2.50U that Pumbaa is currently receiving.

Pumbaa appreciated the 31 gauge needle, and I don't even think he felt it going in. I was very, very careful to not touch the plunger until the needle was in, since it is so slick. He still stopped eating after I injected the Lantus, and gave me a look as in, "****, mom, that stuff stings!"

Singing the praises of American Diabetes Wholesale:

I placed my order on Tuesday at 9:27 am. At 2:23 pm, I received an email that my order had shipped, complete with a link to track the package. I got free shipping because my total order was over $100. The package was due to arrive today, and it did, around 2 pm.

The prices at ADW are excellent, especially on the lancets. I ordered 600 thirty gauge ($2.07 per 100) and 800 twenty-eight gauge ($2.19 per 100). Consider that even if you go to Walmart to purchase lancets, they still charge around $8.00 per 100.

I don't know where I'm going to store all of this stuff...but I probably won't have to reorder syringes or lancets for another 6 months. (It's so nice to not have to order test strips through ADW...and be able to go to Walmart and get a package of 50 for $9.00 for the Relion Prime. I bought 4 packages yesterday, since I don't get to Walmart often, and want to save some time with the errand running.)

Suze
 
Suze, how accurate are the Terumo's you got? The box I got were bad, but if other people are getting boxes of syringes that are fairly evenly marked I'm more than willing to try again.

If you can get the calipers to work, let me know! I think my problem is my eyes, I just get so dizzy and sick if I spend any time at all "focusing".
 
Julie, the Terumo's I've used so far seem to be accurately marked, but the Monojects I got aren't. Isn't that ridiculous???

I'm also having a problem with the Terumo's because I feel like I need five hands to work with them. Once the syringe fills, if I don't hold onto that plunger, it wants to suck the insulin back out of the syringe and into the pen, and that's not good! Have you experienced that phenomena? :roll:
 
Mike had to get used to that, too, Suze, when he started using the Terumos but you'll get the hang of it quickly. You shouldn't have it in the pen that long so just hang on to that plunger as long as it is in the pen. Then you are ok.

Didn't get to the video last week but maybe this one!!
 
Marje, I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing this, and am really looking forward to your video now, because I can't figure out how to hold the syringe/plunger with one hand to draw insulin, and still be able to pull the syringe out without letting that plunger move. I feel so retarded! *LOL*

Suze
 
I think I finally figured out how to place my fingers so I can hold onto the grips of the syringe and use another finger to pull out the plunger and hold it in place while I pull the needle out of the pen. Whew! Finger gymnastics/contortionism! *LOL*

Suze
 
I hold the pen in my left hand (I'm righthanded), stick the needle into the end of the pen and then just pull the plunger out with my thumb and forefinger while having my middle finger press against the flanges on the top of the syringe to keep it in the pen.

Video not successful for the caliper measurement part but we got photos. I hope this helps some.....it's tough to get a clear picture in that closely.

Dosing with Calipers
 
Suze, that's just what happened with me, the plunger took off by itself and pushed insulin back into the pen!!
I guess if the ones you've got are marked accurately, I'll have to get another box and if they are good, just learn to deal with the plungers!
 
Julie:

I find that the Levemir is so much easier to fill the syringe with, but I was using the Terumo's with the Lantus as well.

I now hold the pen with my left hand, and the Terumo syringe in my right. My right hand index and middle fingers hold the plastic jutting-out parts below the plunger on the syringe body, so that I have a good grip to pull the needle out of the pen. Then I use my thumb to pull out the plunger and hold it while I'm removing the needle from the pen.

Took a little to get used to, that's for sure. Different fingers might work better for you...so play around with an old syringe until you find a comfortable grip. Someone else might have a better suggestion as well, as others have used the Terumo's longer than I have.

Suze
 
Terumo syringe review, after nearly one month of use

I'm still on my first box of Terumo syringes, and have only thrown one away due to bad markings.

I check each syringe before I load it with insulin, and take note if the plunger is above the zero line, aligned with the zero line, or below the zero line, and then fill the syringe accordingly. (Those who use calipers don't have to go through this.)

When I first started using the Terumo's, Pumbaa was on the much thicker Lantus, which was also prone to more air bubbles. The Terumo's and Levemir are an ideal pair, that is for sure! The Levemir fills the syringe immediately, and at the most, I have a very, very tiny air bubble to expel. I find that with the Terumo syringes and Levemir, I am wasting so much less insulin, it's unbelievable.

The very slick plunger action on the Terumo's was hard to get used to at first. Especially since I found (on the Lantus...don't know about the Levemir because I changed my technique before starting Pumbaa on Levemir) that if you didn't hold the plunger in place, insulin was sucked back into the pen. I learned to hold the syringe outer base side wings with my index and middle finger, and pull out the plunger with my thumb, and hold the plunger in place with my thumb while I removed the syringe needle from the insulin pen. This was very awkward at first, but tonight I noticed that this is now very comfortable, and don't know why I didn't do this originally with all syringes and Lantus.

Once I got used to the very slick action of the plunger, I haven't had to toss any syringes I had filled, then ruined, by pressing too hard/twisting the plunger to get to the accurate dose. I don't even have to do the "twist the plunger to get a drop out" routine with these. Tonight, when I double checked the dose before injecting, I realized there was about a drop too much in the syringe, and I just gently pressed on the plunger, and removed that drop and got to the accurate dose.

It does take a while to get used to these syringes, but once you do, I think you'll like them. More so the Levemir users than that Lantus users. For Lantus (thicker viscosity and pens more prone to fill the syringe slower and cause more air bubbles to form), I found the Monojects to be easier to use.

Suze
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top