9/5 Leo PMPS ? +1.75 36 +3.7 37 +5 80 +6 162 +8 515 +11 586

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Lisa & Leo

Lisa & Leo

Member Since 2012
Hi All!

Yesterday's condo

AMPS 215
335 +1.7
332 +5
357+10
PMPS 325
349 +2
220 +5
174 +11

We're coming down off that bounce, just in time for me to go away for 3 cycles and a sitter who doesn't test. I've been searching for a tech and am trying to work with this girl in college but she's crazy during the start of the semester this week and hasn't been reliable about answering my emails. Hopefully when she settles in we can work something out.

Leo's AMPS is a falling number. Coming off a bounce. I don't have enough data to know how far he might go. So I squeezed out another drop of his insulin. Not sure if that's officially what "skinny" means, just mommy's paranoia. I also filled the sitter's syringes on the conservative side. I'm not an expert at making perfect droplets yet, but I suspect Leo will be getting slightly less than 1.75 for the next 3 cycles.

I'll check in, but I'll have no values for Leo until tomorrow, but I'm really hoping he isn't starting and dip that I won't be here to catch. HOWEVER, we did lower his dose 5 cycles ago, so hopefully that will stop any really low dips. nailbite_smile nailbite_smile

Yesterday afternoon's storm really put Leo into a funk for several hours and he hid under the couch or crouched in the hall in the tiniest ball he could make of himself. So unlike him. But as soon as he started feeling better, he was tearing around the house full of piss and vinegar again. He loves chewing on my ankles as I walk by. He also did well with his feeder - not a crumb left in either compartment. I think when he's shut in his room at night, that the noise of the thing draws his attention (i.e., freaks him out a little) so he knows New Food has become available.

Everyone have a wonderful day, and I'll try to check in later in the day or tonight.

Lisa & Leo
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144

Hi guys .. what a nice start to the day! I'm sorry you have to go away worried about Leo, but I am sure he will be fine .. and hopefully you can make contact with this pet sitter and that all works out as well .. I'm not 100% certain on this, so wait for others to chime in, but I'm not sure if lantus should be prefilled into syringes .. again, I'm not 100% on that, just thought I had read it somewhere ... Sorry to hear the storm scared leo .. thankfully our girls never seem to mind them .. have a great day guys!
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144

Wish I lived in your area, or vice versa, as I'd gladly help you. I hope that the sitter and him get along just fine. I wish for you to have a safe travel there and back. Leo looks great, though! You're doing an awesome job with him. :-D
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144

Hi Peter and Angela,

Thanks for stopping by and thanks for your kind words. I'm a tired nervous wreck - at work now. Well, not that bad, but just really tired and hoping he is ok. He's at his nadir right about now.

Peter - I've read the same thing about prefilling Lantus. There is a study paper floating around that showed Lantus gets turbid after a day or so, and that it goes out of specifications after (I think) 2 days. The manufacturer recommends against it. However, I don't have much choice at this point in time. My current sitter has experience shooting, but was very upfront with me that she wasn't comfortable filling the syringes. I don't blame her. So, for now we have to pre-load. At least these 2 syringes won't be sitting longer than 24 hours, so I'm not really worried.

I hope the new sitter works out - actually, if I could just get her there for testing and my regular sitter does all the poopie duty, I'd pay both of them for that.

Angela - thanks for the offer - I'd do the same. I wish there was someone else around in the same boat who could trade services, although I wouldn't wish this on anyone else!
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144

Nice start for Leo today. Sounds like he is getting use to the auto feeder. Hope you get everything worked out with the pet sitter.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144

Have a good trip, Lisa. We'll help get Leo back on track when you're back, should he backslide a bit. You're right, pre-filling syringes is definitely not recommended, but we do understand that you don't have much of a choice given the lack of an FD-able petsitter. Life happens. (((Lisa and Leo)))

Hugs
Jane
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144

Thank you for stopping in yesterday with great advice. :razz: Hope all goes well for you and Leo and the sitter! Alexa & Reuben
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144

Hi Carla, Hi Jane,

I'm a mess, and I'm coming home late tonight. I have training for work I can do online tomorrow. I am just beside myself that I shot him on a decreasing number and he won't be tested. He's coming off a bounce and I'm afraid he'll go too far. Looking at his SS, he's ready for another dip, and I can't bear going through the night not knowing. Then waking up, sitting in my office watching a training session then driving home a few hours later. So I'll get home around 10 or 11pm, about his +2 or +3, so if he's going to have an issue (if he hasn't already) I'll be there.

Yes, he's getting used to the feeder - when he's in his room, everything gets eaten. I admit a put a very small tad of his sister's CRF wet food in his +3 meal. I've become more and more stressed over this situation and the testing day and night is taking a toll on me physically - exhaustion and lack of concentration.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2 38

GOOD THING I CAME HOME!!!!!

Sitter shot at 8pm. I got home at 9:45 .. BG was 36. He is alert and looks absolutely fine. Looking around the room at the bug sounds outside. Taking a bath.

+ 1.75 36 1tsp hc
+2 38 1tsp hc w/2 drops Karo (like little dabs from the end of a chopstick)
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2 38

You probably need a bigger drop or two of the Karo and you may want to go with 2 tsp. of gravy when numbers are below 40. Please re-test in 20 min.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2 38

+ 1.75 36 1tsp hc
+2 38 1tsp hc w/2 drops Karo (like little dabs from the end of a chopstick)
+2.3 37 2tsp hc + 2 regular drops Karo
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2 38

Hi Sienne - He's bouncing around the house, chasing bugs only he can see. I can't tell if he's agitated or just doing some of his normal kitty stalking and attacking. Thanks about the advice for 2 tsps - I was thinking maybe it should be more, but the Low Numbers sticky said only 1 tsp ... so I added the Karo. But you are right ... 36 is too low for just 1 tsp.

Question - I gave 1 tsp of Grave Lovers (and this is how I've handled his other situations) ... I just realized the sticky says "gravy FROM" high carb food. I hope they didn't expect me to filter out the little tiny chunks of meat to get only the gravy! LOL!

I'm not freaked out this time. Just disappointed and sad, and hopeful this is "just another emergency" like he's had before and nothing worse. REDUCIE!
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2 38

Leo has gotten his dose reduction -- in style, no less! I would repeat exactly what you did if the next test is still below 50. It can take a little while for the HC to get into you cat's system so keep testing and feeding.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2 38 +2.25 37 +2.5 5

+ 1.75 36 1tsp hc
+2 38 1tsp hc w/2 drops Karo (like little dabs from the end of a chopstick)
+2.3 37 2tsp hc + 2 regular drops Karo
+2.5 55 1tsp hc

Since he's over 55 now, I'm guessing I stick with the hc because the Karo will start to wear off. Also, that I don't need any more Karo.

So, what would the next food be ... if 55 or over, go to mc? The Karo will start to wear off, so I imagine not going to lc immediately?
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2 38 +2.25 37 +2.5 5

I'd give some HC gravy with some of the solid or with a bit of LC and retest in 30 min.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2 38 +2.25 37 +2.5 5

What I learned at cat school today

... Karo, once opened, will magically appear everywhere in the house, spontaneously, including the counter top, the kitchen floor, your shirt, the wall, and the cat's tail. I suspect I'll be finding sticky spots for days... :-D
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2 38 +2.25 37 +2.5 5

Sienne and Gabby said:
I'd give some HC gravy with some of the solid or with a bit of LC and retest in 30 min.
Click to expand...

When I said "hc" in all my updates, I mean that I gave a tsp of the Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers...not separating out the meat. Just dipping the measuring scoop into the can - just clarifying.

I'm now waiting the 30 minutes (another 15 to go). He continues to flip his tail around and sit, ready to stalk. Feisty. I think this is normal. Little fart scaring the daylights out of me again!

~O) ~O) ~O)
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2 38 +2.25 37 +2.5 5

+ 1.75 36 1tsp hc
+2 38 1tsp hc w/2 drops Karo (like little dabs from the end of a chopstick)
+2.3 37 2tsp hc + 2 regular drops Karo
+2.5 55 1tsp hc
+3 73 1 tsp lc

I gave lc .. I think he's reasonably responsive to carbs looking at his ss ... I will stay awake and steer him ... he'll bounce again I'm sure, but I'll watch him.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2 38 +2.25 37 +2.5 5

Ooooohhhhhh!! When we refer to gravy, we really mean the gravy -- not the solids. The gravy is where the carbs are.

I think you can remove the 911. You did a great job tonight.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2 38 +2.25 37 +2.5 5

Sienne - thanks for hanging out and helping me fine-tune Leo's jumps into the mucky green pool. I'll keep watching him to see how the Karo wears off, and I'll start feeding him bits more as he evens out. He seems calmer now. Coincidence perhaps. He taking a bath next to me.

Have a good night!
Lisa
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.25 37 +2.5 55 +3 7

If you're going to be late and your petsitter is shooting tomorrow, I would reduce Leo's dose in the AM. Your new dose will be a skinny 1.5u.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2 38 +2.25 37 +2.5 5

Lisa

Great job bringing him up. It's important to stay on top of the testing for a bit. HC wears off in about two hours and numbers can come back down...especially considering how early it is.

I'm sorry if you explained this another day but the pet sitter can't test before she shoots? If you came home to a 36 at a little bit more than an hour/ half into the cycle, she probably shot a really low, dropping number. Very few experienced lantus members will even shoot below 50.... I know of only a couple with late nadir cats.

Thank you for visiting us and all your well wishes and support!
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.25 37 +2.5 55 +3 7

Hi Marjorie -thanks for the feedback. I have my ~O) ~O) ~O) and will be up for a while. And yes, my sitter does not test. I am looking for one who does, and actually just exchanged emails with someone who will come over this weekend for a meeting. So yes, my sitter probably shot a falling number, which I suspected, because *I* shot a falling number this morning before I left. I was so anxious at work (well, you can read the middle of this condo and SEE how stressed I was) that I came home.

I'm glad I could make you guys feel a little better - at least give you a smile. It's nice when people stop by to visit - thanks for coming by!

Sienne - I am here for the weekend ... no sitter... so I would shoot a skinny 1.5 or a regular 1.5 in the morning? (And where is the sticky that explains exactly what a skinny is? :? I know it's less than 1.5 ... is it a certain number of drops less than 1.5? I started counting the drops to fine tune the dose.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.5 55 +3 73 +3.75 3

+ 1.75 36 1tsp hc
+2 38 1tsp hc w/2 drops Karo (like little dabs from the end of a chopstick)
+2.3 37 2tsp hc + 2 regular drops Karo
+2.5 55 1tsp hc
+3 73 1 tsp lc + 1 tsp lc
+3.75 37 2tsp hc+2 drops Karo

Whoops! Karo takes hold and wears off pretty quickly on Leo. Dammit. Starting it all over again.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.25 37 +2.5 55 +3 7

You should take him down the full .25u since he got into the 30s and that would be your new dose...sk1.5u.

I doubt there is much consistency between members on what a sk dose looks like. The important thing is you figure out how many doses you get per .5u or 1u and you stick with it. What I did was figure out my drops per .5u and then determined what I wanted to call it if I took off one drop, two drops, etc.

Just as an example, if you get 5 drops to .5u you might want to call one drop less than 1.5u a sk1.5, two drops less a f1.25u, three drops less 1.25u, four drops less sk1.25u, five drops less 1u. Again, it doesn't matter as long as you figure out how to decrease consistently and you have a dose in the syringe equated with a numerical dose.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.5 55 +3 73 +3.75 3

Whoa Leo......

Just saw that right after I posted.

P,ease retest in 20 mins and post...you might not see the full onset of the rise until 30 mins but let's make sure he is coming up. Then lather, rinse, repeat.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.5 55 +3 73 +3.75 3

Marje - ok, I'll do that. I have to practice more ... I guessed at what a skinny was today, purely because I was nervous about leaving. I'll work on it tomorrow morning before I shoot.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.5 55 +3 73 +3.75 3

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Whoa Leo......

Just saw that right after I posted.

P,ease retest in 20 mins and post...you might not see the full onset of the rise until 30 mins but let's make sure he is coming up. Then lather, rinse, repeat.
Click to expand...

Yup - little stinker pulled a fast one! Looks like he processes Karo pretty quickly - up AND down. Good to know.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.5 55 +3 73 +3.75 3

You can always take him back up if you need to.

I know you want to be sure you get insulin in him but I think it would be a better idea to not have her shoot if she didn't test. While shooting a reduced dose is an option, even if she had shot .5u tonight, because of the insulin depot, he would have still been in the 30s.

If you have to do this in the future again and she cannot test, it might be a better idea to shoot a reduced dose yourself the cycle before to start draining the depot a bit so she can safely shoot a reduced dose and not have to worry about that cumulative action of the higher dose. KWIM?

PS please take down the 911. I'm going to watch you all until he is safely up ...I will be up at least until midnight my time (PDT) with Gracie.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.5 55 +3 73 +3.75 3

Back up to 60. Food advice? I'm thinking 1 or 2 tsp of hc+lc?
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60

Yes...I would keep the HC in the mix right now...still early in the cycle.

Normally, karo does not wear off that fast....I think you are dealing with a large shed...it might be a long night.

~O) ~O) ~O) and better find some comfy pjs!
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60

Okay, gave 1 tsp mixed hc/lc. About the Karo ... how big is "one drop" they way people use the term here? I'm taking drops as they fall out of a spoon. Maybe 1/3 inch in diameter? Just wondering if the bounce was because I didn't give as much Karo as you thought I did?

I also wonder when I start feeding more than 1 tsp at a time ... if I had given more food when he hit 73, would that have stopped it? (I know now that he is back low that I give only 1 tsp at a time.)

About the shed ... he has too much insulin right now...are you saying that he already has a full shed, so his numbers are dropping because no more can "fit" into the shed?

Thanks for explaining!
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60

Don't forget to take the 911 off ;-) :-D

Retest in 30 after the food and I'll look for the number ok?

So...on the karo...I have a 3ml syringe I get at the compounding pharmacy and that works well for drops. The thing is, since ECID, what might be a drop for me that works for Gracie, might not work for you.

The first time they go this low or in a situation like this where he wants to stay low, karo is good until you learn how he responds to food. We used karo a lot as newbies but over time, I learned what slowed her down, what brought her up, etc. I found that 11% is the most I need and I don't use karo ever anymore unless she's in the 20s. But that's because I have a lot of data and I know her. So it's important that as you build data, you make notes on how he responds to the different foods and gravy. You might find that you can control him with less carbs or no karo unless he's really low.

I think that when a cat comes down into green, you should give two good tsp of LC and test and see if that slowed him. If it didn't, try it again. Next time, try a little higher low carb. Again...trial and error. But it's always best to slow the drop then be working so hard to bring numbers up. I say this from experience with a kitty who loves to run low :-D :-D

Since lantus is a depot insulin, then one dose builds upon the previous until the depot is full. Its like a full bucket...if you keep adding water into it, it will overflow. So, yes, when his shed is full and you add another shot, the excess inso Lin drops the numbers. That's why it is really important to not miss reductions. If you do, the shed can get ahead of you can't you can be fighting the shed for hours and hours and hours. Not fun.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60

PMPS unknown
+ 1.75 36 1tsp hc
+2 38 1tsp hc w/2 drops Karo (like little dabs from the end of a chopstick)
+2.3 37 2tsp hc + 2 regular drops Karo
+2.5 55 1tsp hc
+3 73 1 tsp lc + 1 tsp lc
+3.75 37 2tsp hc+2 drops Karo
+4 60 1 tsp hc+lc
+4.5 60 1 tsp hc+lc

Will try to keep with a hc/lc mix and see how long he can surf up slowly.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60

Good...just continue the lather, rinse, repeat, K?

I'm just night cruising the board and wil keep checking your numbers. I'd take the AMPS data out of my subject line so you can fit in the PM tests.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60

Marjorie and Gracie said:
I think that when a cat comes down into green, you should give two good tsp of LC and test and see if that slowed him. If it didn't, try it again. Next time, try a little higher low carb. Again...trial and error. But it's always best to slow the drop then be working so hard to bring numbers up. I say this from experience with a kitty who loves to run low :-D :-D
Click to expand...

That's good advice. Makes sense about finding the lowest high-carb food that would work. In this situation today, when I came home to a 36 that I knew would keep falling...would I try the 2 tsp LC food at that time? Or at another time when his BG was green but higher/safer? I would be scared he would keep falling if it wasn't high enough carb, but that's your point, right? Trying it when he's that low?

Sorry to keep asking so many questions - it seems like the emergencies bring them all out!
 
Re: 9/5 Leo AMPS 144 PMPS ? +1.75 36 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60

That's why we are here...to help and answer questions.

When you walk in and test and get a number in the 30s, you need to get them up immediately because you do not know how long he's been there.....so don't use LC. Go for the big guns.

You want to experiment when he's higher and coming down so you have a safety net. You don't want to be seeing if LC will work when he's in the 30s ;-)

If you do the carb experiments when he's higher green then you can figure out what might work when he's lower. And " eventually" you will know if you can use a higher low carb to bring him up out of 40s without HC, gravy, or karo.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.5 55 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60

Aaahhhhh! I get it! :-D

Just wanted to make sure I understood when to experiment and when to pull out the big guns as you said. Thanks for the explanation.

I've clearly kept Leo up too long. He looks like he's nodding off, just like I want to. :shock:
 
Re: 9/5 Leo PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.5 55 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60

No sleeping yet! :lol: :lol: :lol: You need to keep testing every 30 mins at least once more but probably until you get him past nadir unless he starts going up really fast.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.5 55 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60 +5

PMPS unknown
+ 1.75 36 1tsp hc
+2 38 1tsp hc w/2 drops Karo (like little dabs from the end of a chopstick)
+2.3 37 2tsp hc + 2 regular drops Karo
+2.5 55 1tsp hc
+3 73 1 tsp lc + 1 tsp lc
+3.75 37 2tsp hc+2 drops Karo
+4 60 1 tsp hc+lc
+4.5 60 1 tsp hc+lc
+5 80 1 tsp lc

He is at or close to his nadir. He is hungry, mellow, and walks up to me when he knows I'm ready to test. Thank you Leo, for being such a good boy.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.5 55 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60

Marjorie and Gracie said:
No sleeping yet! :lol: :lol: :lol: You need to keep testing every 30 mins at least once more but probably until you get him past nadir unless he starts going up really fast.
Click to expand...

Drat! I was hoping you wouldn't notice! :lol:

I'll be up for a little while yet. I was pretty upset at work today and actually kind of bolted out of work when I could get out. I feel guilty about leaving him and then coming home to find him at a 36 on his way down. I could have lost him today. That scares me that it could happen so easily. So I'll be up until I know for sure he's okay. Tomorrow is going to be a looooong day.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.5 55 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60

Good move to do the LC.

So what you are looking for is two rising, non food influenced numbers.

Why don't you give him an hour now and then test and post. I'll still be up.
 
Re: 9/5 Leo PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.5 55 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60

Thanks. Hopefully that will be the right move and he won't go back down. Who knows yet. Gathering data. Next test in about 30 minutes. He's staring at me, saying, "food?"
 
Re: 9/5 Leo PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.5 55 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60

What are the official rules for getting a :mrgreen: on his Condo? Every time he gets into the green I'm not smiling!
 
Re: 9/5 Leo PMPS ? +1.75 36 +2.5 55 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60

Yes...when he gets into green, open up the first post in your condo, click on edit, click on the :mrgreen: button above the subject line, and click submit :-D :-D
 
Re: 9/5 Leo PMPS ? +1.75 36 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60 +5 80 +6 1

Thanks Marje, thanks Jane. Whew the little stinker took me for a ride!

+6 162

I'm assuming I get to go to sleep now? Please? @-)

PMPS unknown
+ 1.75 36 1tsp hc
+2 38 1tsp hc w/2 drops Karo (like little dabs from the end of a chopstick)
+2.3 37 2tsp hc + 2 regular drops Karo
+2.5 55 1tsp hc
+3 73 1 tsp lc + 1 tsp lc
+3.75 37 2tsp hc+2 drops Karo
+4 60 1 tsp hc+lc
+4.5 60 1 tsp hc+lc
+5 80 1 tsp lc
+6 162 food!!!
 
Re: 9/5 Leo PMPS ? +1.75 36 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60 +5 80 +6 1

Wow - Lisa - fantastic job with your sweet Leo!!

You get the September 5, 2012 catch of the day award for getting to your boy when he needed you and bringing him safely through the murky green bog.

I'm green with jealousy at how mellow Leo seems to be for his tests. Pirate Fitz is, well, a Pirate and hates test time in every way imaginable.

Leo - your Mama Bean loves you so hugely!!!! Now level off and allow her to get some zzzzzz's. I-) I-) I-)

Shai and Pirate Fitz
 
Re: 9/5 Leo PMPS ? +1.75 36 +3 73 +3.75 37 +4 60 +5 80 +6 1

Oh Leo is a STINKER!

I just realized the automatic feeder was still on. At some point he ate about 1/3 can of FF from the feeder. I suspect it was in the last hour or so, but I can't be sure. Based on his values, that makes sense. So that means I'm not done tonight. STINKER!
 
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