? 9/4: Scout AMPS=114, 138; +6=333

sandscout

sandscout

Member Since 2018
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...80-3-5-364-7-356-9-5-422.218929/#post-2436933

So this morning Scout’s AMPS was 114; I took it a second time, thinking there was some mistake, this time it was 138, so I didn’t shoot. The vet said not to shoot if Scout was 200 or lower.
He was also a little playful after breakfast, which I haven’t seen for weeks. At +6 it had risen to 333.

I am really confused. What would account for his BG to lower that much? (Last nite his PMPS was 378, and I took a reading before turning in, he was at 350.) I’m so glad I tested this a.m., I never would have guessed he would have been this low this morning.
Is it typical for numbers to jump around this month, to the point of being too low to shoot?
 
sandscout said:
vet said not to shoot if Scout was 200 or lower.
Click to expand...

Vets love to say this so that people don't cause their cat to go hypo...but you're a long way from hypo numbers...

You used to shoot below 200...what's changed? Your kitty needs some insulin - otherwise you're only going to see high numbers.

Please review the SLGS protocol for lowest 'no-shoot' number.
 
Wow, your reply was certainly not helpful.

Re: shooting below 200- true for many vets, yes. Although this vet really gets feline diabetes. I have shot below 200 before, but I don’t feel comfortable shooting at 114 when he was so close to 400 at the AMPS yesterday.That seems very low all of a sudden and doesn’t feel right. I think also I’m much more cautious this time around, it’s the 2nd time he’s come out of remission and I know there’s more ups and downs with each time this happens.
I’ve been reading the protocols, and from what I understand, when just starting out, which we are, again, it’s best to not shoot when # is below 200.
 
This is the protocol I have been following.
  • Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin.
  • Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options:
    • a.) give nothing
    • b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose)
    • c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value
 
sandscout said:
Wow, your reply was certainly not helpful.

Re: shooting below 200- true for many vets, yes. Although this vet really gets feline diabetes. I have shot below 200 before, but I don’t feel comfortable shooting at 114 when he was so close to 400 at the AMPS yesterday.That seems very low all of a sudden and doesn’t feel right. I think also I’m much more cautious this time around, it’s the 2nd time he’s come out of remission and I know there’s more ups and downs with each time this happens.
I’ve been reading the protocols, and from what I understand, when just starting out, which we are, again, it’s best to not shoot when # is below 200.
Click to expand...

Sorry you didn't feel it was helpful. It's just difficult to see kitties numbers go up...but if it doesn't feel right to you, you know your kitty better than anyone else.
 
It is difficult see kitties numbers go up-my question was really directed at how quickly his morning number today had jumped back down into the lower blues. I guess I’m just having trouble understanding how the numbers can dip and rise so drastically within a 24-hour period. He didn’t do this the last time he had diabetes. Did you see this with Luci when you were trying to get her regulated?
 
sandscout said:
I am really confused. What would account for his BG to lower that much?
Click to expand...
The depot is building, insulin is starting to make a difference. :) The good news is that this dose is getting Scout into the SLGS target range of 90 to 149 for nadirs. I would carry on with 0.5 units tonight.

As for shooting full dose at low numbers, it's not something I'd suggest right away. You have to learn what Scout's patterns are second time around on Lantus. Often cats out of remission don't look like they did the first time on insulin. It's great you got a couple other tests to see what he would have been doing. You can use that in the future when you are confronted with a lower than used to number. By the way, the part you quote on shooting lower numbers is prefaced by "until you collect enough data to know how your cat will react". A little lower down the Dosing Methods Sticky Notes on SLGS, there is a section that starts "with experience". People with lots of data and experience on SLGS do not shoot below 90. 114 wasn't far off that.
 
sandscout said:
It is difficult see kitties numbers go up-my question was really directed at how quickly his morning number today had jumped back down into the lower blues. I guess I’m just having trouble understanding how the numbers can dip and rise so drastically within a 24-hour period. He didn’t do this the last time he had diabetes. Did you see this with Luci when you were trying to get her regulated?
Click to expand...

Luci is far from regulated...her numbers can soar to pinks for seemingly no reason at all...Sometimes, it's from a bounce...sometimes ?? I've never had a great explanation for all her crazy numbers...she has historically been a 'high diver'...loves to come from a high number and hit the very middle of the lagoon..just about as far as she can take it...so I'm on top of her testing - all day and half the night.

The things that seem to work best for us are:
Frequent testing.
Consistency - timing of shots and amount.
Rarely if ever skip/reduce a dose if safe to shoot.

The no-shoot number for us is any number below 50, unless I can get her to wait, test again in 20 and she's on her way up...it happens.
I try to hold her dose as high as possible for as long as possible...she failed reductions time and time again - so I work at feeding the curve...if she's slipping too low, like she was doing today, she gets some MC with her LC...if she's still acting like she's hungry she gets some more LC. Our rule is 3 x under 50 OR 1 time under 40 and she's earned a reduction.

I feel that her hunger is indicative of low blood sugar so she gets to eat - the only time I with hold food is two hours prior to AM/PM shots as I don't want food to influence the number and trick me into giving her a shot when/if I should not.
However, if she's starving I will give her a freeze dried treat or two - she doesn't understand how to tell time and has no idea why I won't feed her within that two hour time frame.

I have found the fewer changes the less dramatic the numbers are - but that's just my experience with Luci. Every cat is different...and the whole FD thing seems pretty touchy to me...lots of things can cause those numbers to change - dramatically - and they can't tell us how they're feeling so we can only go by testing, testing, and more testing..

I hope this is helpful.
 
Yes they could be siblings!!!!
Sue I’m sorry I became so frustrated before, when you initially replied to my post. The second time around it’s so much more difficult to predict how things might go, and my frustration level rises correspondingly.
 
@Wendy&Neko thank you for your response, I thinks it’s best to be looking at Scout’s patterns this time around and forget about the last remission .
 
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