9/30 Tıfıl going bad, help with dosing please :(

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ISIL&TIFIL

ISIL&TIFIL

Member Since 2011
Hello,
Tıfıl's BG levels were not goning very good since last week, some friends here said that it might be because of cronic cystitis, and yes they were right. 2 days ago blood came from the urine again, next morning I took her to the vet and they gave three different injections and thet gave a pill which I now learned that it is an antiseptic. I am not sure if they are medicating right and I am very worried that it is going to repeat again :(
I am also suspicious of fancy feast, I think that it is causing her to become cystitis, so I stopped giving her fancy feast and there isn't any other option in my country to give (low carb). has anyone experienced anything like this before while using ff?

Tıfıl is now in very high numbers like 400's...please please help me with dosing because the insulin dosn't seem to effect :(
And please help me with medicating? any opinions about which group of antibiotics to use? I went to 5 different vets and neighter one of them could find a solution for our cystitis :(
Thank you very much

P.S: Tıfıl is fealing terrible, she started to drink alot and the appetite seems to be going down :(
 
I wish I had some advice to give you, but wanted to bump you up for more experienced eyes.

I am not familiar with cystis. I have also never heard of issues with FF here. Know that I am thinking about you and sending healing vines to Tifil and hugs to you. (((((HUGS)))))
 
Keep Tifil's dose where you have it. You've just raised the dose a lot. Lantus needs approximately 3 days for the dose to stabilize. Also, if Tifil was given an antibiotic, you will need to monitor carefully. Once the antibiotic starts to work, her numbers could come down quickly.

Cystitis is painful. Did the vet give you any medication for pain? This is a link to information on cystitis. The vet who wrote this is someone that is very respected on this website.
 
Cystitis is also known as a urinary tract infection (I Googled it, and here's a link to one of the links that came up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feline_cystitis ), and is extremely treatable. You'll need to find a food that is very low in magnesium. Evo is low in magnesium, and can be found at PetFoodDirect.com . I have a cat who has had a urinary tract infection, and he's on Evo, the exact same stuff that I now feed Blackie. Never had an issue with it returning. Perhaps you need to take Tifil back to the vet and get another opinion, and get the proper diagnosis and treatment. Blood in the urine means that there's a urinary tract infection. It IS treatable. Tifil may need to be in the hospital for a few days because of it, but he/she'll be fine. :smile:

Good luck, and let us know how it goes with him/her.
 
Dear Isil,
I hope that Tifil will be feeling better soon. I'm sorry that I can't comment on her health problems, but please know that we are sending many beautiful healing vines to help her recover. It would be unusual for the entire line of Fancy Feast foods to cause this problem. Perhaps you should try a different flavor of FF. Tifil might be allergic to an ingredient in one of your flavors.

Feel better, Tifil!

Hugs to you both,

Ella & Rusty
 
Thank you very much everybody, I am really sad that this cystisis problem couldn't be solved for a long time.
I am sorry to say that there is not another option for food but I have decided to give her boiled chicken and pure meat for some while. I am not so sure if the vet did the right meditation because he only gave one injection, is one injection enough?
Now I will read the links that you have send. But I am very sad to say that it is +7.25 and she is up to her AMPS allready :(
 
I'm so sorry that Tifil is having such a problem. Tess occasionally has UTI problems, the link Sienne gave you is very good. The last time when I took Tess to the ER vet they suggested glucosamine/chondritin supplement. It may help with the bladder irritation. Tess hasn't had a flare up since I started using it. The pain meds are very important. Did they give you any.

Be careful of feeding just chicken. It does not have all the minerals cats need and you need to add supplements. Dr. Lisa has another page on her site about making catfood. Taurine and B vitamin are especially important. If you can get chicken hearts to add that is a great source of taurine.
 
it would probably help if you could name the injection and the prescriptions she's getting. i think cystitis doesn't always mean an infection - sometimes it can just mean the urinary tract is irritated. if you've been giving fish too often, i think that can cause a problem in some cats.

punkin has a history of many bladder problems with blood in his urine - we called them bladder infections but i don't know if they really were infections or if his bladder was just irritated. we haven't had any trouble with the fancy feast at all, in fact, he hasn't had any problems in the year he's been eating ff. before he had problems at least 1-2 times every year. if she really has an infection and isn't responding to the antibiotic, they need to do a culture to see what bacteria is growing there. they do that by poking their bladder with a needle and withdrawing a bit of urine to culture. then the antibiotic would be given that works on that particular bacteria.

post the names of the things they are using for treatment and we might be able to help more.

sorry you're having so much trouble and tifil's feeling so lousy. :YMHUG:

eta: i think one thing that's helped punkin a lot is that we add a lot of water to his canned food. he was on dry food before, now i always add water - almost equal amounts of water to his food to keep his urine diluted. that will also help tifil's pain because the more concentrated the urine is the more it burns. see if adding some water helps her.
 
I think when my cat, Jr. Mint, was in the hospital for a UTI issue, he was on antibiotics then that was injected into his IV. When he came home, I medicated him with antiobitics until it cleared. 1 pill 2x a day was given to him. It reoccurred, but I was given more antibiotics to help clear it. Then, it finally went away.

Still sending tons of healing vines, and positive thoughts for Tifil.
 
I always add lots and lots of water in her meals also. she was dehydrated when she became ketoacidosis so I am very affraid that we can have the same problem again, that's the reason I always add 2 spoons of water.

The medication that the vet gave was;
1 injection of Hepagen ( I don't know the ml) here is a link to this medicine http://www.metabolase.com/pdf_point/hep ... nglish.pdf
ın this link it looks like there is not a dosage for cats.Who knows, maybe it is not suitable for cats..

1 injection of clamoxyl (don't know the ml)
1 injection of C vitamin
and 5 tablets of cysticat to give at home

He didn't give pain killers but I started today
 
I also thought about the same thing, but it seems like itnwent up because of cystisis. But I am still thinking about that. Can it be?
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
Keep Tifil's dose where you have it. You've just raised the dose a lot. Lantus needs approximately 3 days for the dose to stabilize. Also, if Tifil was given an antibiotic, you will need to monitor carefully. Once the antibiotic starts to work, her numbers could come down quickly.
Click to expand...

remember New Dose Wonkiness? when you raise the dose some of it goes to build the shed and you have to wait the 3 days for it to settle. she's only had 2 doses of the 1.5units.

if she's got an infection, it will raise her BG
if she's in pain, which it sounds like this is painful, it will raise her BG
if she's feeling stressed, which she is under physical stress with all of this, it will raise her BG

just keep her dose steady for a few days and monitor her in case it starts dropping as the inflammation & pain resolve.
 
I am not sure if she is been medicated right, she is not using antibiotics now and I am suspicious that she is not going the right way. I am all alone and I don't have any vet knowing anything about diabetes. I must start an antibiotic with someones opinion :( has anyone heard anything about cipro, an antibiotic for cystitis...
I need an opinion from someone who has a cat with cronic cystitis :(
 
Thank you,
I must add that tıfıl is prone to ketons. And I must remind that she was ketoasidosis 4 months ago, I must do something urgently to get her BG levels down :(
 
I agree that the numbers need to come down. Do you know if you can get Humulin R insulin where you are? In the US we can get it over the counter at the pharmacy. You use it in conjunction with Lantus to help bring down high numbers, the way humans use basal/bolus insulins. If not R, then I think you'll need to get pretty aggressive with your Lantus dose increases, but monitor like crazy in case the numbers start to drop when she starts feeling better.

The other things you really need to do are get as much water into her as you can, and be sure to test for ketones every day.
 
There is humalin R in Turkey, tomorrow I will buy it immediately, can you please teach me how I should give it,
I am so so happy that there is a chance I can get the numbers down. The other idea, to give big numbers with lantus is fine also, I am at home all the time, my husband broke his achilles tendon and I am looking after him. which one is better, humalin R or giving high numbers of lantus?
Can you please help me with dosing humalin R?
Thank you thank you thank you :cry:
 
For this purpose, Humulin R is better. Big doses of Lantus can be problematic if your cat doesn't need the big dose for a longer period of time. If you do need to gradually increase the Lantus, you can do so while still using R. Libby is experienced with using R and can guide you.

Please look over the link I provided about cystitis. It is not necessarily an infection -- it is not the same as a urinary track infection (UTI) and antibiotics are not needed. Cystitis can cause there to be blood in the urine without there being any infection.

Pain medication, if this is cystitis, may be needed. Did your vet get a sterile urine sample so they can run a Culture and Sensitivity (C & S). A C & S will tell you what kind of bacteria is present if, in fact, bacteria is present. Cystitis is an irritation/inflammation of the bladder. Glucosamine and chondroiten (it's a supplement that is typically used to help with the inflammation in arthritis) can be helpful.

This is another link that discusses cystitis.

I would also encourage you to get regular tests for ketones as Libby suggested. Likewise, get as much water into Tifil as you can.
 
Yes, I'll help you. Let me know when you have the R, then we'll try using it at the next high preshot. Maybe you'll be lucky -sometimes cats read our condos. There have been a couple of people who went and bought R intending to use it, then their cat's numbers went down on their own and they never had to use it. :lol:

Here is some basic info on how to start using R:

Usually R is in and out of the system in 4 hours, so we would start with 0.1 units of R and do an "R curve" - test at +1, +2, +3 and +4 to see what the onset/nadir/duration of R are for Tifil at that dose. If the numbers are still high, you can give another 0.1 units of R after nadir. What you don't want to do is give R at a time when a bounce might be clearing, and you don't want to give it at a time when the R and Lantus might nadir at the same time. That's why we give R only at preshot and *after* nadir, and why we give it at the beginning of a bounce and not just in any cycle.

0.1 units may or may not do anything, but just like with Lantus you have to start low so you can be sure. For some cats 0.1 is all they need. Even for my Jazzy, who has acromegaly, that dose can pack a punch. After a couple of cycles of 0.1, if that isn't doing much then we try 0.25 units and do the same R curve. The goal is to find out what her R curve looks like, and also about how many points of drop she gets from each dose. Once we have some good data, we'll be able to figure out a good strategy for when and how to use R for her. It will make more sense once you're doing it.
 
I was just looking over the links Sienne posted. Maybe you can print them and give them to your vet? They address pain management (bupe is good) and other things you can do like make sure the litter box is pristine, adding lots of moisture to food, environmental modification to minimize stress, and Feliway.

Also, if you started pain meds today, it is possible that her numbers will go down on their own. Sometimes pain makes the numbers go up, so if the pain goes away, the numbers might go back down. Since you have increased her dose quite a bit, it is important to keep testing often just in case that happens. You might find that you need to decrease her dose quickly too. At least we can hope so!
 
Years ago my vet recommended Cosequin for my Tilei. She had chronic cystitis. The cosequin toughens up the bladder lining is the way he explained it to me. The bladder lining is very similar to the joints. The cosequin worked for her. It is OTC here in the US and may be something worth asking your vet about too.
 
ok I understood, so I have to give R at preshot and keep on testing every hour, at +4 if the bg is still high I can give another dose, am I right) , so, I give r and lantus at the same time? now it is 3 am and our amps is at 10 am. early in the morning I will try to obtain R...tıfıl is at +5 now and she is at 451 :(
The vet tested her urine with a strip. he said the amount of lokosit is way too high...he didn't test the tipe of bacteria, ı am really afraid if she needs antibiotics or not. Tıfıl is not going to her box frequently and there is no blood in her urine, but she feels terrible. It was so hard to give her pain killer, she dosn't like force pilling..:(
 
I just read this link on cystitus that Sienne gave you, and it is very good. I would suggest you read it, too.

I think Libby was saying that if needed, you can give a very very small dose of R at the same time as the Lantus dose, and/or if needed, after the nadir (which is usually around +6 with Lantus).
Please only use R with the guidance from an experienced person (like Libby). R is very very strong.
Libby, correct me, if I am wrong.

I wish you the best with getting her numbers down nice and safely. We are here for you.
 
You do not want to give a dose of R at +4. You want to avoid having R and Lantus peak at the same time. If a second dose is needed, you would want to use R at +8 or when Libby suggests.
 
right, you can give R at preshot time or after nadir. You can give it at the same time as Lantus, but in separate syringes. Don't mix the two insulins.

To start with, let's say to give 0.1 unit of R if she is over 300 at preshot, and only if you are able to test the first few hours of the cycle. Then get a +1, +2, +3, and if +3 is still going down, get a +4 too. With those tests, you are trying to find out when the R kicks in and when it wears off, as well as how much (if any) that dose brings her down. If she is still high at +7 or +8, you can give another 0.1u of R then.
 
ok, everything is clear. I just walkup and I am waiting for the pharmacy to open.
By the way, I read the link that sienne gave and I've been reading that link since we've met with diabetes. As written there, I have to take tıfıl for a urine test. I am still suspicious that there is a bacteria.
 
try mixing an equal amount of food with water at her mealtimes. you can also make the tuna water that is described in the first link from sienne. mix one can of tuna with 3 cups of water and let it sit for 15 minutes, then you can freeze it in ice cube trays to give it to her. the extra water will help for both the cystitis and preventing ketones.

i'm sorry she's feeling so crummy & hope tomorrow is better.
 
Isil:

I'm sorry to just get to this now. Our Gracie had chronic interstitial cystitis for three years....never any bacteria or crystals. Hers was caused by aluminum toxicity and when she was stressed (like me going out of town), she'd start running to the box a lot, peeing very little, and having blood in it. Steroids calmed it down but, long story short, caused her FD. We then found a vet who was able to detox her through Standard Process supplement. I do agree with Dr. Lisa that most cases of cystitis are probably sterile HOWEVER I'm not so quick to jump on board on that with a diabetic cat because the sugar can cause bacteria to grow.

Personally, I would treat with a pain med such as buprenex if available, have the vet do the cystocentesis (if possible), and see if there is any bacteria. However, once you've started antibiotics, you aren't going to know because if there is any bacteria, the AB should treat it.

Sending Tifil healing vines and hoping her numbers will come down and she will feel better soon.
 
Hello everyone,
I am so sorry that I couldn't write yesterday, my internet went down and they fixed it today. I felt terrible because I wanted to ask before I shoot another Humalin R. Now I am going to write the new numbers on my spreadsheet. I really need your advice :roll:

Dear Marjorie, I don't think there is buprenex in my country but I will search the medicine and try to find the equivalent drug that has the same elements..I also noticed that tıfıl is becoming cystitis when ever I leave the house and stay the night in another place. I hope that her cystitis is also because of stress because it is so hard to find a vet who can cystocentesis. But I will search...
 
Yes her appetite is fine. actually she wants to eat all the time, yesterday I made her home food with boiled chicken and chicken heart (As Ann suggested for sorce of tourine), Tıfıl got so exited she ate too much and she threw up. she constantly wants to eat, I think it is because of her BG levels
 
I'm glad that Tifil is eating well, it looks like the R helped get her numbers down very well yesterday. I have no advice on using the R but am giving you a bump up.

Tess had a few UTI episodes. The last one the vet recommended cosequin and Tess hasn't had a problem since. She also occasionally had bladder control issues while she slept, that has stopped since we started the Cosequin too. In the US Cosequin is a feline form of Glucosamine/ Chondroitin. For a cat under 10 lbs one capsule of Cosequin contains is 125mg Glucosamine Hydroxide and 100mg of Sodium Condritin Sulfate. The nice thing about Cosequin is that you can sprinkle it on food and it has tuna flavor! If that isn't available you can use the human version, but you may have to cut the pill.

You need to adjust your SS so the text wraps in the cell when you add the Humulin R, it is getting cut off now and it is hard to tell when you have given it. Use the "Wrap text" button in the toolbar it is the 4th in from the right side.
 
Hello Ann,
I tried to wrap the text but I couldn't manage it, I am working on it.
I am searching for cosequin in my country, I hope I can find it.
 
this looks better!

It looks like Tifil is pretty sensitive to R, so I would suggest using it on a sliding scale like the one below. You can change the scale if you see that it is not working well or if it is bringing the numbers down too far. You don't really want her to drop too fast, you just want the R to bring the numbers down a little bit to give the Lantus a good place to start working. That is what is happening now, so good!

At preshot: if 325+, use 0.1u of R
After nadir: if 250+, use 0.1u of R

I hope Tifil is feeling better today.
 
Many humans use a glucosamine/ chondritin supplement for arthritis . You could look for that at the drugstore in the section where they sell vitamins. You may need to divide it into the proportions I mentioned before.
 
Thank you very much Angela :)

Dear Libby, Today Tıfıl didn't go down pretty much, after now I will obey the sliding scale. By the way I ordered the cosequin from ebay. I hope tıfıl will come down as soon as possible. Can I increase the dose if it is not enough? and does the increasment have to be with Humalin? what about lantus?
Thank you :)
 
We have another problem :( Constipation :( she has made her toilet but it is very dry and very small and thin :( I hope she is not getting dehydrated again :( any suggestions. I have a medicine called osmolak and it is Lactulose, but I am affraid that it can raise the bg levels. Tomorrow I will try to find miralax. I hope she is not going dka again :( because it all started with constipation :(
 
Thank you very much Peter, I hope she is going to be well again with your prayers and with your good thoughts..Hugs from me and purs froms Tıfıl :)
 
If you get Miralax, it works by drawing water from the kitty to soften the stools. You'll want to add extra water to her meals when you give it. Also, adding extra water now, as much as she'll tolerate, may help with the dry stools, and also help to flush out any ketones.
We're all here for you Isil.
 
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