9/3 Zeke - AMPS 225;+2=87;+2.5 ~56;+3~66;+3.6~74;+4 94

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MrZ

MrZ

Member Since 2013
We're early into his cycle. Just gave him 1 tsp LC. Please let me know if I should "feed the low number". Also how often should I be taking a reading? Is hourly ok unless I see signs of hypo?
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 (ALPHATRAK)

Get another test in half an hour to see how the LC is effecting him. The 87 is still in normal range you just want to keep from going lower. It looks like his nadir is about +4?
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 (ALPHATRAK)

Hi, I can't give you advice - I am sure someone will be along soon. I would test every 1/2 hour until you see TWO rising numbers. Feed Low Crab unless there is a drop in numbers then switch to a higher carb food. I am sure someone will be posting soon! Hang in there!
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 (ALPHATRAK)

You did right by feeding the 87. It's not that it's too low, but when you saw it in the cycle. It's early, and on an Alphatrack, "80" is your line in the sand, I think.
I would test at +3 for sure.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 (ALPHATRAK)

Recently his nadir is +4 but sometimes +6 or +7
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 (ALPHATRAK)

Do you have syrup and HC gravy food? If he drops below 80 you will need it. Looking forward to that next test in 30mins like Ann said.

We will advise how much gravy food depending on his numbers. Maybe 1-2 tsp
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 (ALPHATRAK)

Is feeding 1 tsp LC adequate say if he drops below 80 within the next two readings +3 and +4? I'll be testing every 30 just for my peace of mind.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 (ALPHATRAK)

Carl is correct -- a drop below 80 is the "line in the sand" for a dose reduction if you're using an AlphaTrack.

This post on Handling Low Numbers can guide you through if people aren't around. I'm at work and can't hang out with you. There are several experienced Lantus users, along with Carl who knows the drill, who can lend a hand. The important questions are whether you have a supply of strips and high carb food and can be around to monitor your kitty.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 (ALPHATRAK)

MrZ said:
Is feeding 1 tsp LC adequate say if he drops below 80 within the next two readings +3 and +4? I'll be testing every 30 just for my peace of mind.
Click to expand...
If you are testing every 30, then yes, I think you can try LC first to see if that works. Unless you see a number below 70 on the next test, in which case I would bust out the big guns and go with HC.
Since this is the first time you've seen 80s, it's a chance to find out how he responds to carbs on low numbers. But you don't have much wiggle room to play with.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 (ALPHATRAK) +2.5 56 Help

Just gave him 13% carb food - 1 tsp. Should I give him more?
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 (ALPHATRAK)

Is readings at 30 minutes sufficient or should I do every 15 minutes?
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 (ALPHATRAK)

Have you tested again?
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 (ALPHATRAK)

Just saw the 56.

You have any gravy food?
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 (ALPHATRAK)

yes just gave him FF chicken in gravy about 1 tsp. Should I give him more? Take a reading 15 minutes after last?
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~ 56 (ALPHATRAK)

20 minutes. It takes that long for the food to show up.

I updated you first post heading to show the 56 so everyone can see it.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~ 56 (ALPHATRAK)

Food may not show up in the test numbers for 20-30 minutes.

It is feed 1-2 teaspoons of high carb gravy (absorbs faster than solid food), wait 20-30 min, re-test, repeat until up in safe numbers.

He's low enough on the AlphaTrak I'd probably feed every 15 minutes, even though the test numbers may not show it until later ... but then, I'm the nervous type.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~ 56 (ALPHATRAK)

He loved the FF. Is waiting for more. I gave him another tsp of MC (13%) after I saw the comment about bringing out the big guns. He seems fine. Got excited seeing a squirrel when I was taking his +2.5 reading. Please let me know if I should be rushing him to ER.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~ 56 (ALPHATRAK)

He's not showing any weird behavior? Let's see what the next test shows. Do you have Karo just in case?
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~ 56 (ALPHATRAK)

Keep on going with the food.

I might feed more of the gravy as it'll absorb faster.

If you have Karo or other syrup, add a few drops.


Just to be prepared - do you have an oral syringe?
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~ 56 (ALPHATRAK)

He's up to 66 (39 on ReliOn). I gave 2 tsp FF Chicken w/gravy 13% Carb. He loves it. He's waiting for more. Will test again in 20 minutes.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~ 56 (ALPHATRAK)

Good! I'll be here for the next number.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~ 56 (ALPHATRAK)

Ok. Thats better.

Gravy wears off faster than solid food, so keep going with the process.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~ 56 (ALPHATRAK)

He's hanging out ins the kitchen, very alert. No weird behavior. I have the open can of FF and he's sniffing the air just waiting for more. Will be taking next test shortly. I have maple syrup but no oral syringe.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~ 56 (ALPHATRAK)

MrZ said:
He's hanging out ins the kitchen, very alert. No weird behavior. I have the open can of FF and he's sniffing the air just waiting for more. Will be taking next test shortly. I have maple syrup but no oral syringe.
Click to expand...

Good on the behavior.


Oral syringes are handy for a number of purposes, not just when managing low numbers. You can find them - later - at the pharmacy, as a children's syringe..
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~ 56 (ALPHATRAK)

@+3 plus 20 minutes he's up to 88 AlphaTrak (49 ReliOn). We haven't gotten to nadir yet. Shall I give him more food? He's waiting in the kitchen. Maybe just LC food? Though after the FF, I don't think he's gonna want the wellness.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~ 56 (ALPHATRAK)

See if he'll take the Wellness.
You're handling this perfectly, by the way :-D
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~ 56 (ALPHATRAK)

Yes on more food, precisely because you haven't reached nadir yet.

Gravy will wear off faster, so you may want to do another round of high carb, or maybe mix some of each together.


Saw the 88 - start mixing the Wellness in.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT)

ok, he's eating the wellness. Getting ready to take another +20 minutes reading. Hopefully, the BG is rising steadily.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT)

MrZ said:
ok, he's eating the wellness. Getting ready to take another +20 minutes ready. Hopefully, the BG is rising steadily.
Click to expand...

That's the plan ... sometimes the implementation needs help :smile:
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT)

OK, so you've learned that Zeke responds really well to the higher carb food. Good to know if and when this happens again. If you can keep the numbers above 80 using LC food at this point, that's good to know also.

See how I have updated your original topic title? That makes it easy for anyone to see what's going on as soon as they see the main index page. It catches their attention so they can hop in to help if needed.
You can do that yourself, but in order to do it, you have to go up to your first post, hit the "edit" button, and then you can update it for each reading you get. Just good to know for next time. (I can only do that because I am one of the board moderators. Otherwise, only the author of a thread can edit their own threads.)
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT)

Dropped to 74 (AT) 41 (ReliOn). Feed 2 tsp FF (13%) with some Wellness. Will test again in 20. His behavior is normal. thanks for hanging in here with us. :mrgreen:
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT)

You want to keep testing at 20 to 30 minute intervals until you see Zeke staying up without additional food for at least 2 tests. If he starts going down again give a little more LC pr MC.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT)

Be glad this isn't an all nighter! (Been there, did that!! and folks stayed with me too.)
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT)

OK, so nadir today is might be beyond +4 ;-)
Good on the snack.

It's also good that you've been comparing meters to see the pretty consistent variation of 30 or so points. That's good to know if you ever run out of strips for either of them.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

It's not unusual for numbers to wobble around. You want to keep testing until you see several tests in a safe ( i.e., above 80) range while you're still testing every 30 min. Once the numbers stabilize, you can back off to testing every hour.

For managing low numbers:
  • Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of gravy from high carb food or high carb food only. (If you have a cat with GI issues, using a couple of drops of syrup plus low carb food is an alternative.)
  • Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
  • Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
  • Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
  • Test in an hour and follow the same steps.

DO NOT become complacent. If number have risen after one or two tests, it’s important to continue testing. Numbers may bobble up and down as the HC food and/or Karo wear off. DO NOT get one test where your cat has risen from low numbers into the 50s and go to sleep or leave the house. You are putting your cat in a risky situation. When in doubt, leave HC food out.
Click to expand...
 
Re: AMPS 225;+2=87;+2.5 ~56;+3~66;+3.3~88;+3.6~74;+4 94(AT)

Will continue 20 minute testing. So how much reduction has kitty earned? 0.25 or 0.5? Thanks again from both of us for sticking with us. Couldn't imagine doing this without you. {{{{ BIG HUGS }}}}
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

The standard deduction would be .25u, but wait for more input.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

OK, I have to fly out the door to get to work, but there are plenty of people around that can help if needed.

Great job with this today! I'll check in later.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

Ok, at +4 plus 20 minutes holding at 94 (AT) since +4 reading. ReliOn down just a tad at 49 from 51. Will test again in 20. Poor Zekey's getting tired of the ear pricks. Had to give him some freeze-dried salmon kisses to keep him from getting worked up.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

You are doing a great job! How long between the last test and food? ALWAYS give treats when testing! Tess purrs through the test anticipating her treat! Many cats come on their own at test time looking for their treat!
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

its not the protocol, but tonight, you might decrease 0.5 units to drain the shed a bit faster than just decreasing 0.25 would do.

If not always home a lot to monitor, you might keep it at the 0.5 unit reduction level until test data indicated a change was needed.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

+ 5 at 88 (down a tad). No ReliOn result. Will test again in 30. Hopefully then I can go back to hourly testing. Feed him wellness with a little tuna.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

MrZ said:
+ 5 at 88 (down a tad). No ReliOn result. Will test again in 30. Hopefully then I can go back to hourly testing. Feed him wellness with a little tuna.
Click to expand...

Once you're past about +7 (the usual range for a Lantus nadir, though this may vary), it may start coming up on its own. Unitl then, be vigilant.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

You are doing a great job! How long between the last test and food? ALWAYS give treats when testing! Tess purrs through the test anticipating her treat! Many cats come on their own at test time looking for their treat!
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

+5.5 93 (AT). Up 5mg from +5 reading. No ReliOn possible. Gave LC wellness along with tuna.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

Thoses last several numbers are really surfing. All meters will vary a little from test to test. Looking good.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

Still surfing. +6 94. Is it too early to start thinking ahead? Not sure I'm up for another PM like early this AM. Like the surfing but don't care for BGs under 79 (want the reduction though).

So, should we reduce 0.5 or 0.25? I like the 0.5 because I'm hoping that will keep Zekey out of the 70s (low), 60s & 50s but don't want to set him back either. It's a tricky call. Would appreciate the benefit of your experience on how we should proceed. Thanks.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

The protocol says 0.25.

I'd go with 0.5 to help the shed drain faster, just because I don't stay up well (sleep disorder).
- You might then go to the 0.25 reduction tomorrow, unless you want to work down to shooting low to stay low more cautiously.

You hold the syringe, so its your call.
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

Want to make sure I understand your recommendation.

So this morning we shot 1.5u, and I'm understanding you to suggest that it's our call and we can choose to:

(a)Tonight - shoot 1u
Tomorrow morning and going forward shoot 1.25 (unless kitty earns another reduction tonight < 80) and hold until need to increase or decrease based on protocol.

(b) Follow the protocol and if I have the strength to stay up with him tonight (which is what I'm more inclined to do), shoot 1.5u and see how it goes, unless he's at 80-130 at shot time tonight, then we decrease by an additional 0.25 and shoot 1u.

Is this correct?

Based on today's numbers, say we decrease only 0.25. Based on your experience are we likely to see really low numbers again or really can we not predict as ECID?

What about the fact that he was able to go as low as 56 and not go hypo. Is it safe to assume that if that happens again most likely I won't be faced with a hypo crisis (not that I wouldn't take the same action to get him back up to =>80).

On the other hand, being that he's already dipped into the 50s, if it happens again does the risk of going hypo increase?

I know it sounds like I'm asking to have you look into your crystal ball but I figure it doesn't hurt to ask these questions.

Thanks,
Laura and Zeke
 
Re: AMPS 225; +2 = 87 +2.5 ~56; +3~66; +3.3~88; (AT); +3.6~

MrZ said:
Want to make sure I understand your recommendation.

So this morning we shot 1.5u, and I'm understanding you to suggest that it's our call and we can choose to:

(a)Tonight - shoot 1u
Tomorrow morning and going forward shoot 1.25 (unless kitty earns another reduction tonight < 80) and hold until need to increase or decrease based on protocol.
Click to expand...
Yes

MrZ said:
(b) Follow the protocol and if I have the strength to stay up with him tonight (which is what I'm more inclined to do), shoot 1.5u and see how it goes, unless he's at 80-130 at shot time tonight, then we decrease by an additional 0.25 and shoot 1u.

Is this correct?
Click to expand...
No, the protocol would have you shoot 1.25 tonight.

MrZ said:
Based on today's numbers, say we decrease only 0.25. Based on your experience are we likely to see really low numbers again or really can we not predict as ECID?
Click to expand...
You might, due to the shed/depot effect. That's why I'd take it down to 1.0 units tonight, myself. Get that shed drained down a bit.

MrZ said:
What about the fact that he was able to go as low as 56 and not go hypo. Is it safe to assume that if that happens again most likely I won't be faced with a hypo crisis (not that I wouldn't take the same action to get him back up to =>80).
Click to expand...
No - you were lucky. so many things go into the glucose level - illness, activity, changes in food batches, etc.

MrZ said:
On the other hand, being that he's already dipped into the 50s, if it happens again does the risk of going hypo increase?
Click to expand...
I don't know about that. His insulin sensitivity may increase, though, any time he gets really low like that. Another reason for dropping to 1 unit tonight.
 
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