9/3 Rupert PMPS 441, +1, 403,+3-367,+5-343

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Pip & Rupert

Pip & Rupert

Member Since 2012
yesterdays hideousness: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=65711&p=713213#p713213

yesterdays numbers:

AMPS 430
+2 466.2
+6 505.8
PMPS 471.6
+2 469.8
+ 4 412.2


Started a new vial today. This morning Rupert was outside, happy, when I came down to check, feed and shoot. Bright eyed, purry and very vocal. Different cat from last night. I think he may have hit some decent numbers in the +7/89/10 range maybe overnight?? His eyes are a little weepy this morning, both of them though, and small amount of clear fluid, not the red stuff that comes from his right eye. He's had a small about of EVO (he doesn't seem THAT enthusiastic about it but will eat it when he's hungry).. and I mixed a little friskies pate in with it at the +2 snack. He's not hovering by the water bowl like he was last night. I think he gets a bit of exercise going out in the evenings patrolling so that has to help. At least he obviously felt well enough to do that. He almost managed to shoot back outside this morning before he got his shot. .. sight of me, at the crack of dawn, racing down the stairs in my dressing gown and slippers wielding a syringe trying to get to the cat flap in front of a hurling black and white missile must have been amusing. Not to mention the expletives being uttered in my still asleep state! No wonder the other cats think I'm completely mad :lol:

must remember to give Rupie his lysine in his next snack. He's sure loving the raw teeny bits of steak he gets as treats (my hubby is vegetarian, and I'm pretty much the same by default so it's funny that the cats are getting steak and we aren't!!).

Hubby MAY be back this evening, should hear from him sometime this morning, it depends what time they get in and how much sleep he can manage to get before the three hour drive home.

He's come down a little for +2, not a lot, but I"ll take anything at this oint. lets hope he settles down into some solid steady yellow's for today, rather than his characteristic massive dives. I'll be happy with light yellow if we can get it.
Hope all is well in everyone else's world today.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345

Hi guys .. I'm glad rupert is having a good morning and seems to be coming down some .. And I hope that his eye clears up some .. I always think it is funny when kitties on this board eat human fuds .. like J.D., he sure does love his shrimps :lol: have a great weekend!
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345

LMAO at your story on the sprint to the cat flap! :lol: Who knew FD would promote morning exercise for the bean?

This morning looks much nicer, with a slow slide toward yellow. Way to go Rupert!
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345

ha ha! re the morning exercise!! only way you'd get me 'running' in the morning! Now I have to go get my regular exercise! cleaning out three horses!
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345

Yeah, I thought that was pretty funny too, about the hurling black and white missile :lol:

Pit, it's so nice to see Rupert coming down from that nasty color, we won't mention. Yay :-D
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365

Good start today Rupert, guess he thought the bean needed some exercise too! :lol: :lol: Those numbers are really so close it could just be meter variance. Come on Rupie, prove me right! The important thing is that he is feeling better.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365

sight of me, at the crack of dawn, racing down the stairs in my dressing gown and slippers wielding a syringe trying to get to the cat flap in front of a hurling black and white missile must have been amusing. Not to mention the expletives being uttered in my still asleep state! No wonder the other cats think I'm completely mad
Click to expand...

ROFLMAO.gif


Oh, Pip...your humor is just what the vet ordered!!!
i'm howling at the mental image...
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415 dosecrease PM

steadily heading up again. back into the reds at +5 somewhat freaked as to where he'll be in another 7 hours. :? should I increase tonight? He's been pretty consistently in the reds for a few days. It's the weekend and I can monitor him closely. I'll be up late tonight waiting for Hubby to get home too. Thoughts for my PMPS please. getting a little bit more than stressed here.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415 dosecrease PM

I'm not one of the wise ones, but I'm voting for the increase, Pip.
He's been on this dose longer than 6 cycles, and I see nothing in his numbers that suggests a reason to delay!

With the wonderful guidance we received here, we were VERY aggressive with Binks' dosing, and I believe that led to his success.

celi
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415 dosecrease PM

and if a dosecrease.. to what? I've been saying we are doing a f1.5.. it's a bit iffy because I don't have half markers on my syringes, it's probably been closer to a 1.75 than a 1.5.. really hard to be 100% accurate......

looking for input. I think we have to do something, he can't stay up in the rafters for much longer. He looked great this morning when he came in, but once again he really seems to crash during the day, looking a little hagard now (might just be due to the excessive aerobic activity this morning !!!)
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415 dosecrease PM

Pip

I'm getting some info ready for you and will be back in a bit with some thoughts, ok? Before you shoot.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415 dosecrease PM

no panic! I have 4.5 hours till I shoot! I'm actually going to the mall, for some retail therapy, back in a couple of hours! THANX everyone!
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415 dosecrease PM

any further thoughts? I'm just over an hour away from shot time. He's looking dishevelled again, am betting he'll be high PMPS number.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

Pip:

Bottom line quickly...we don't think you should increase yet. Laurie is putting together some detailed info for you but I'm not sure if she'll be able to make it before shot time.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

SERIOUSLY? wow. I just don't get it. so way up there and looking so sad again. drinking tons. I know to wait for the bounce to clear, but he's had 7 days of these hideous numbers. :shock: :cry:
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

seriously. it is very hard - we all get it. but you have to look at how low the dose takes him and work off of that. this same dose took him to a 97 at preshot 5 days ago. he was 75 on this dose - if it took him there before it will take him there again. an overdosed cat can be a serious problem.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

okay. I'll give my f1.5 one more go, but seriously, tomorrow, if we are still pink and red, or god forbid black. the dose is going up. I can NOT sit here and watch him waste away. he goes from looking not bad, to really winthered super fast. and he's now losing weight over the past few days. these high levels are damaging him and I feel bad just letting them happen. I hope this is the right thing to do.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

now you see why I made sure to say I'm not one of the wise ones, Pip...
I have to add to that- if I hadn't continually asked for guidance, I'd have made a bunch of mistakes with Binks.

I trust the wise ones implicitly...they'll have an excellent basis for their thoughts on waiting- you'll see!
They know whereof they speak!

hang in there!

celi
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

i'm confused pip. this morning you said that he was bright eyed, a black and white missile, exercising, not laying by his water bowl.

tonight you're saying he's withering and losing weight.

are you saying over the course of this day that he's plummeted in every way?
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

And I have to ask if you checked ketones today? I see you did yesterday. If this were my cat I'd be checking at least two times a day. At least.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

yes Julie, he goes from bright eyed and enthusiastic to a complete blobby lump, his coat goes from sleek and shiny to dull and staring over the course of 8 hours. he looks like a different cat this evening than he did this morning. On the other hand, maybe because he's outside half the night, in the fresh air, etc.etc.. who knows? it's just I can tell as his numbers climb he just seems to shrink (both in personality and appearance). I know, I'm probably being melodramatic, and reading about some of the kitties on here, they sound like they are in a lot worse shape. He doesn't throw up, he has no neuropathy and, so far, no ketones.... so I should quit my whining and do as I'm told!...

off to give Rupie his f1. shot like a good girl. then I have to go feed horsies.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

In going back over several days of condos, there are questions that seem to have gotten lost in the shuffle. Could you take a few minutes and reply?

  • You were planning on taking Rupert to the vet. We agree. Rupert needs to see the vet and get the eye/dental issue addressed ASAP. It's likely that there is an infection and it could be a significant contributor to the high numbers. When can you get this scheduled?
  • Are you testing for ketones on a regular (i.e., daily) basis? The last test I see on the SS is on 3/4. High numbers, an infection, and not testing for ketones is a recipe for disaster.
  • How often are you giving the lysine? It needs to be given consistently, probably for a couple of weeks, for it to be effective.
Nobody likes red numbers, and we have been having a back channel discussion about Rupert for a while. We all agree that he needs more insulin. But there are serious concerns about you keeping him safe if you increase the dose. He is a dive and bouncer. The bouncy cats can drive you crazy, but we can help you with him.

The way we deal with bounces is to first and foremost, wait for the bounce to clear and then, once we know where the numbers are, increase the dose. Our first concern here is safety of the cats. It is not safe to raise the dose before a bounce has cleared. Rupert has a knack for diving quite low when he is clearing a bounce. Particularly with him, if you were to raise the dose and it kicks in when he is clearing a bounce, you could be looking at a dive into very low numbers. On top of that, it is absolutely essential that you monitor very carefully given Rupert’s tendency to clear a bounce with a vengeance. Otherwise, increasing could be a serious safety concern.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

Binks used to look drained when he was in the high numbers, too.
I know what you mean, Pip.

IMHO, there are few things more difficult in life than being a caregiver for those we love so deeply-
I think it's harder on us than it is on the patient.

:YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

Question, what's the note about red goop in the eye? How long has that been going on? Has Rupert been to the vet to rule out infection? Infection can cause high numbers.

Also, yesterday you mention a possible fur shot. If he had a fur shot yesterday, he might still be recovering from that.

And... take a step back and look at his SS. You say he has been in bad numbers for 7 days, but what I see is 3.5 of the last 10 cycles have been pretty good. Sure, there is room for improvement, but it's not as bad as you think.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

i want to make sure you see sienne's post - you were both posting at the same time. she's got some very important points. there is a difference between a cat bouncing and in high numbers and a cat that is sick and in high numbers. the vet appt sounds very important.

the reason we ask for the WCR (whole cat report) every morning is to help keep an eye out for all parts of the cat, not just the numbers. only you are there looking at rupert. i don't mean to be unkind, but drama doesn't help if it's not real. we can't see him and can only give advice based upon what you report. so the factuality of what you report is very important.

can you respond to the points in her post so we can help you best to figure out next steps?
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

ok. got it.
re the red goop, he's actually had that off and on for 7years. when he first moved in (he walked back home about 10 miles to his old house - next door - and moved in with us instead, he's a determined boy).. he looked like he'd possibly been in a fight so I thought perhaps his tear duct had been damaged. It seemed to clear up for the most part, but would appear now and then. never seem to bother him. I wondered if he'd damaged the sinus in a cat fight and allergies made it flare up or something. Then his actual eye 'rim' got rougher looking, took him to the vet, she removed a 'rough' spot on the inside of the upper eyelid, we figured that might have been causing the irritation.. nope, didn't make much difference. Then she took out a tooth.... can't say he made a massive recovery, but the weeping did seem to lessen. then just recently the red goop has reappeared. I mentioned it to the (new) vet when we went in when he was looking so crappy and losing weight. She looked at his teeth and thought he had an infection so gave us a/b , gave him some sub/q and sent him home with us. phoned next day to say bloodwork showed he was diabetic.

drat, now I can't remember what the other questions were. oh.. can't get him to the vet till Tuesday night (thats the first nght she's open late again) so he'll go in then unless she can fit us back in tomorrow (had to cancel because we thought hubby not home till tomorrow night but he's home tonight, but late). will talk to her again about the eye issue, really want her to check his teeth. She's a tad old school and wants us to get his numbers down first.. sigh. rather catch 22. but if she insists then I'll take him back to the original dental vet and see if she'll cooperate (if a tooth extraction is actually necessary).

testing for ketones morning and night . all negative so far. he's on the lysine every day, along with milk thistle and I've just started him on digestive enzymes (because Ann's post reminded me).

he's eating EVO, ultra low carb food, with raw steak as 'poke snacks'. I mix a tiddly bit of Friskies pate in with it since he's not THAT enthusiastic.
he's drinking LOTS again (that dropped off a bit).

I'll stick to the program. I trust you guys know best, I apologize for taking up your time. He does look bleary tonight, I'm going to see if he'll come out with me down to the barn, get some fresh air and some exercise. He's had his shot (ten mins ago) and I'll be up late waiting for hubby so I can monitor him closely. I know when he's feeling blah because I can get an ear poke with very little fuss. When he's feeling 'happier' theres a lot more cat in there!!

thanx again. I'll shut up now.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

Hi Pip!
I posted in your condo yesterday about a possible infection. I hope you can take a moment to look it over and read the link I included. It may be helpful to have in the back of your mind when you bring him to the vet.

My kitty had a period of VERY high numbers and steep dives. It was really hard to watch. And yes, her demeanor, attitude, fur...everything could change so quickly. Usually my attitude changed right along with hers. I just wanted you to know I understand the emotions when dealing with a situation like this.

I hope it gets better for you both....and soon!
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

I don't know if you saw Carolyn's note. The point about herpes is a point well taken. Here's what she said:

Carolyn & Latte said:
If I am repeating what others have suggested, I apologize. One thing to consider is whether or not Rupert has Feline Herpes Virus. Its actually very common. Some cats wont show signs for years and the owners wonder where the heck it came from! Here is a link that will explain symptoms, dx, tx, etc:
http://www.peteyedoctor.com/620635.html
Click to expand...
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

Aw, Pip...you're not "taking up" anyone's time unnecessarily...
we understand how you feel...and if there was ever a place to vent, question, or voice your concerns...
THIS is that place!

you have had such a rough time...
my heart goes out to you, and I am so impressed with how well you are handling all that is on your plate.
Kudos to you...the things you are coping with would drive a lesser person (like me) to their knees.

celi
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

thanx for the reminder, was going to ask vet about that too. He's on the lysine, it can't hurt, may help. In looking at a lot of pix on line of herpes infections and how they manifest in the eye, his eye looks nothing like any of those. Never any green, or yellow goop, never any involvement of the third eyelid, etc.etc. but that doesn't mean he doesn't have it either. so, he's on his lysine daily. I'll have to try to remember to put everything in the spreadsheet :oops:

I shall consider myself

and I'll try to do better tomorrow. Let's hope Rupie is on board with the program too.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

Pip, please don't apologize....and stop beating yourself up. Everybody on here, started out with not knowing about feline diabetes. I've been at it two years, and still asking questions.
You are getting advice from people who know what they're talking about, and are here because they care deeply about our cats.
No one is judging you......I don't give advice, obviously, but we all care about Rupert....and you. :YMHUG:
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

Pip & Rupert said:
In looking at a lot of pix on line of herpes infections and how they manifest in the eye, his eye looks nothing like any of those. Never any green, or yellow goop, never any involvement of the third eyelid, etc.etc. but that doesn't mean he doesn't have it either. so, he's on his lysine daily. I'll have to try to remember to put everything in the spreadsheet :oops:
Click to expand...

Those are some pretty extreme photos. I think the info on that page is nice and simple - easy to understand the cause, symptoms, tx, etc.

Tippie, my foster, has chronic herpes in her one eye. This means it is always (and I mean always) dripping. I am just learning about her flares, but those seem to involve more red tinge discharge (or brownish), squinting, watery eye, loss of appetite, sneezing, etc. If it does not get better with an antiviral medication and lysine then it is off to the vet to make sure there is not an underlying infection.

I think each cat will have the virus manifest a little differently. Im sure there are many others on the board, let alone in LL who have had a cat affected by this and may be able to chime in. Of course, there could be many other reasons for the discharge. It is just suspicious due to the symptoms, and now understanding that Rupert spent some time outside.

FYI...if it were herpes, it often comes about during times of stress or illness. It would make perfect sense to see it flare up right now.

Go give him some kisses and a snuggle. cat_pet_icon , and then treat yourself to something nice!
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert PMPS 441, +1, 403

I agree with Celi...time to pamper yourself a bit. You're doing a great job with Rupie!!!
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert AMPS 396, +2 345,+4, 365,+5,415,+11.5, 441, d

Pip, I'm so glad to hear that DH will be home tonight. I hope you can get into the vet tomorrow. Lantus Land is an amazing place, where you have such a fabulous support group and people with incredible expertise to help you figure this out. I'm really glad you found this place so that you can make better decisions about Rupert's care. I know how much we appreciate everyone's willingness to share. I can't imagine dealing with FD without LL. Hugs.
Liz
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert PMPS 441, +1, 403

VERY interesting re the herpes. and he really DOES fit the profile. is there a treatment, I understand it's incurable but manageable with anti viral meds??? Certainly makes sense that it would flare now.. and in defense of the previous vet who removed a bad tooth, and the eye wept again shortly thereafter.. it might have been flaring up BECAUSE of the bad tooth at the time. Only thing is, why would neither vet even suspect the virus??? Seems pretty obviously to me now. I gather it's a difficult one to prove? Let's hope the lysine really starts to kick in and help him.

it's interesting. we use the Lysine in the horses (and also my 87 year old dad takes it for his shingles - he takes NO other meds by the way... retired chiropractor, into alternative therapies, big into the herbs and vitamins)... we use it in the horses to help with hyper sensitivity in the skin (I guess could be similar to a shingles reaction) and also for hind gut health. Never thought to give it to the cats. I've actually added it to all their diets now... partly cos Rupie could possibly get into their food too (they are all on wet food, mostly friskies pate and the left overs of the EVO that Rupert won't eat!)... given that the virus is supposed to be contagious, I wouldn't want any of them to pick it up. And it's the type of amino acid that won't do any harm.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert PMPS 441, +1, 403

ha ha ha.. LOVE the Martini..... how did you guess! that's exactly what I"m planning to have this evening! Don't want TOO big a one though, don't want to fall asleep before hubby gets home. He sounded a lot better when he called today, very very tired, but not so emotional and stressed out. He's walking a fine line right now, probably why I'm so hyper sensitive about Rupie. If anything happens to Rupert right now it will send Stu over the edge, he was practically suicidal when his horse died, and Rupert is his baby too, always been more of his cat than mine. it's tough. all our animals are getting old so it's only to be expected (other than the fact that his horse was only 8 and was the youngest, healthiest of them all!)
Wilf (22) has cushings (hypothyroid) but very mildly and is managed with a $2 a day pill (pergolide). Still rideable but crabby!
Squeak (25) has hypERthyroid, but it's managed by diet, once we figured out what the issue was (UNHEARD of in horses, he's even having a paper written about him by a bunch of vet students!) he also has a tumor on his thyroid, benign so far but about the size of a tennisball, still loves to trail ride
Bumley, the oldest cat, is 14, slowing down but looking okay. showing signs of age
Sophie is Rupies full sister, seems healthy enough (certainly feisty!)
Polly the stray that moved in with us in January of 2011 seems totally okay, phew..
and Oliver the newest stray seems happy as all get out, and I"ve discovered he's a retriever! I've had cats fetch before, but not like this guy. I'm beginning to wonder if he wasn't raised with a dog? seriously. carries this yellow mouse, drops it at my feet, head butts my leg until I throw the mouse.. hurtles off after it, brings it back, drops it at my feet, head butts, meows, until I throw it. keeps doing that look down, look up, thing just like a dog! doesn't matter where I throw it, down stairs, far afar away, out of sight, he goes and chases after it, and brings it back to me. Kept doing it for about 10 minutes - least he's getting some exercise! makes it tricky typing on the computer though!

sometimes I wonder how much easier our lives would be without all these critters.. but who on earth could bear that? (we'd be richer financially, but certainly not emotionally!)
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert PMPS 441, +1, 403,+3-367

+3, and yay, we have pink.

and hubby called half an hour ago, he's on his way HOME! yay.
 
Re: 9/3 Rupert PMPS 441, +1, 403,+3-367

My Gizmo also plays fetch. There's a photo of him in the most recent set of pictures in my signature. He's got a spring in his mouth. That's what he plays fetch with.
 
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