9/26 Martha AMPS 168
- Thread starter Hosanna
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A few housekeeping items....
Please remember to link your previous day's condo/thread to today's condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=79797&p=862685&hilit=Martha#p862685
Several of us have repeatedly asked that you get at lease one test per cycle, that includes getting a test during the PM cycle. You tested only at pre-shot times yesterday. It is entirely possible that Martha's numbers dropped to 20 at some point. It will make helping you nearly impossible without at least one spot check each cycle. Again, Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, not on pre-shot values. We only want to help you to keep Martha safe. That drop into the 30s should be an example of why getting spot checks is critical.
Please remember to link your previous day's condo/thread to today's condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=79797&p=862685&hilit=Martha#p862685
Several of us have repeatedly asked that you get at lease one test per cycle, that includes getting a test during the PM cycle. You tested only at pre-shot times yesterday. It is entirely possible that Martha's numbers dropped to 20 at some point. It will make helping you nearly impossible without at least one spot check each cycle. Again, Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, not on pre-shot values. We only want to help you to keep Martha safe. That drop into the 30s should be an example of why getting spot checks is critical.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Hosanna said:
good morning!
i haven't been on the board much lately, but when i saw your post i took a look at martha's spreadsheeet to see what the "big scare" was. drops into low numbers can be scary, but you have the tools to keep her safe and the drops can easily be controlled when you catch them. sienne's post about getting spot checks is extremely important. martha *could be* dropping into low numbers frequently, but you'll never know without spot checks.
you made a notation on martha's spreadsheet:
"After our "big scare" I am ecstatic that the highest she went was a low yellow! I think she's back on the right path. Now...to keep her here. She has not been feeling well, and is to the point she will hardly let me test her--after all that testing the other day I don't blame her! She's such a sweetie."
can you elaborate as to why you think she's not feeling well? maybe we can help.
my cat, alex, has been diabetic for over 6 years now. she's been on and off insulin... spending about half that time on and half off. knock on wood... despite running her in low numbers, she's never experienced a hypoglycemic event because i test her as frequently as necessary. spot checking is not a punishment, nor does it hurt her. i'll be honest, there have been times when she has shown some reluctance about testing, but it's just something that has to be done to keep her safe.
the fact that you're here looking for ways to help her shows you love martha as i do alex. i know you don't want anything to happen to her, but like sienne and others who have encouraged you to spot check... i'm worried about martha bottoming out on you when you least expect it. i'm especially concerned since we are seeing her drop into low numbers on lesser doses than she has received ever before.
i'm not trying to scare you, but hypos can be scary for the caregiver as well as the cat... not to mention, not all cats survive hypoglycemic events. meters are our best friend when it comes to this sugar dance. by getting those spot checks you'll be able to intervene if/when necessary... keeping your precious kitty safe. the requests you've been receiving to get spot checks are not meant to harp on you. encouraging you to get spot checks to see how low martha is dropping in any given cycle come from caring and concern for you and martha.
everyone wants only the best for the two of you. please take this care and concern to heart...
Hosanna
Member Since 2012
Sorry about forgetting the condo:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=79797&p=862685#p862685
I am not able to test Martha right now any more than absolutely necessary because she is still quite upset over all the testing the other day. She tries to bite me as it is. She growls and hisses at me and bares her fangs and lunges at me. I can handle all this for the two vital times of testing (PS) but cannot do it more often right now. I believe we have enough data to see that she is remaining stable without large rises and drops for no reason. Each drop she has had has been the result of some mistaken dose. The rise was because of giving her that stupid dry food.
Martha is struggling with more than diabetes, though that is taking up most of our time right now. She also has CRF, IBD, and HCM, a serious heart disease. It is an incredible balancing act. Why she's feeling bad? I am not sure. We have to count breaths and pray she doesn't get so stressed out that she goes into heart failure again.
I am having to go out of state for about 3 days the end of October. This has ME very stressed, because there's no one local to do this testing and shots. I work closely with her cardiologist who does not want her stressed any more than necessary, and two trips to the vet/per day during that time is too much for her. Am hoping I will get someone who will know how to work with Martha. Very few people can.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=79797&p=862685#p862685
I am not able to test Martha right now any more than absolutely necessary because she is still quite upset over all the testing the other day. She tries to bite me as it is. She growls and hisses at me and bares her fangs and lunges at me. I can handle all this for the two vital times of testing (PS) but cannot do it more often right now. I believe we have enough data to see that she is remaining stable without large rises and drops for no reason. Each drop she has had has been the result of some mistaken dose. The rise was because of giving her that stupid dry food.
Martha is struggling with more than diabetes, though that is taking up most of our time right now. She also has CRF, IBD, and HCM, a serious heart disease. It is an incredible balancing act. Why she's feeling bad? I am not sure. We have to count breaths and pray she doesn't get so stressed out that she goes into heart failure again.
I am having to go out of state for about 3 days the end of October. This has ME very stressed, because there's no one local to do this testing and shots. I work closely with her cardiologist who does not want her stressed any more than necessary, and two trips to the vet/per day during that time is too much for her. Am hoping I will get someone who will know how to work with Martha. Very few people can.
Jane & Jack & Karre the Emperor
Member Since 2009
Hi Hosanna :smile:
I'm so happy to read that Martha is looking good to you, who knows her best! That's so important! You've both been through tricky times, and Martha has some complex health issues, and it's wonderful that you're still here and so willing to go through this process with all its challenges.
Since you're one of our newer members, I'd like to take this opportunity to echo what two of our veterans, Jill and Sienne, have mentioned. I know you've been doing a great job of reading up on Lantus, and checking the Stickies, and learning the theory. I know it's an immense amount of things to grasp! I myself still find myself clueless now and then, even though I'm often able to help out - one never stops learning! LL'ers like Jill, Sienne, Marje and others are ready to help and teach and guide, and the best way they can do that is if we all try our best to follow what they suggest, and try to comply when they ask us to do things. Like with the spot-checks.
It really is very important that you make every effort you can to get spot checks. I really do understand that you've had such a difficult time with testing. But the reason for us all urging you to spotcheck is that the most crucial insulin decision, with LANTUS, are based on the NADIR (the lowest point on the 12-hour cycle). You mention doing the tests that are "absolutely necessary" - well, the spotchecks ARE absolutely necessary. Lantus is an insulin that likes consistent dosing, and that requires a few days to settles into a new dose, because it is a depot-based insulin, too. It builds a "shed" which influences action. (If you have ANY questions about this, please ASK them anytime! We really want to explain this and help you understand it, ok?) So, if one does not have an idea of how high or low the nadir is per cycle, it's impossible to give safe dosing advice or even to assess what's going on, how a cat is responding to Lantus. Does that make sense?
We all know that you love your beautiful Martha, Hosanna. We know you would not be here, trying so hard, if you didn't. The only reason we can't very well just leave you alone about the spotchecks is that we want so much for Martha to be as safe as she can be, and to have all the chances at progress that she can have. I promise we're not just trying to bug you! :smile: If Martha is struggling at test-times - have you considered the kitty-burrito method? Does Martha get treats at test-time? Does she have all-time favourite treats, that you could limit to ONLY test-times?
What do you think - Is there a way for you to get spotchecks? The (+2) is a very useful one, to see where the cycle is going. The mid-cycle one is also good, but depends a but on whether the kitty has a clear nadir-habit (and even those can fluctuate). I wonder whether you might be willing to post a PROFILE? If we had a bit more info on how much you are able to test, during the week and then on weekends, we would be better able to give you some pointers.
Let us know how you feel about these thoughts, ok?
I'm glad you're here.
Hugs
Jane
I'm so happy to read that Martha is looking good to you, who knows her best! That's so important! You've both been through tricky times, and Martha has some complex health issues, and it's wonderful that you're still here and so willing to go through this process with all its challenges.
Since you're one of our newer members, I'd like to take this opportunity to echo what two of our veterans, Jill and Sienne, have mentioned. I know you've been doing a great job of reading up on Lantus, and checking the Stickies, and learning the theory. I know it's an immense amount of things to grasp! I myself still find myself clueless now and then, even though I'm often able to help out - one never stops learning! LL'ers like Jill, Sienne, Marje and others are ready to help and teach and guide, and the best way they can do that is if we all try our best to follow what they suggest, and try to comply when they ask us to do things. Like with the spot-checks.
It really is very important that you make every effort you can to get spot checks. I really do understand that you've had such a difficult time with testing. But the reason for us all urging you to spotcheck is that the most crucial insulin decision, with LANTUS, are based on the NADIR (the lowest point on the 12-hour cycle). You mention doing the tests that are "absolutely necessary" - well, the spotchecks ARE absolutely necessary. Lantus is an insulin that likes consistent dosing, and that requires a few days to settles into a new dose, because it is a depot-based insulin, too. It builds a "shed" which influences action. (If you have ANY questions about this, please ASK them anytime! We really want to explain this and help you understand it, ok?) So, if one does not have an idea of how high or low the nadir is per cycle, it's impossible to give safe dosing advice or even to assess what's going on, how a cat is responding to Lantus. Does that make sense?
We all know that you love your beautiful Martha, Hosanna. We know you would not be here, trying so hard, if you didn't. The only reason we can't very well just leave you alone about the spotchecks is that we want so much for Martha to be as safe as she can be, and to have all the chances at progress that she can have. I promise we're not just trying to bug you! :smile: If Martha is struggling at test-times - have you considered the kitty-burrito method? Does Martha get treats at test-time? Does she have all-time favourite treats, that you could limit to ONLY test-times?
What do you think - Is there a way for you to get spotchecks? The (+2) is a very useful one, to see where the cycle is going. The mid-cycle one is also good, but depends a but on whether the kitty has a clear nadir-habit (and even those can fluctuate). I wonder whether you might be willing to post a PROFILE? If we had a bit more info on how much you are able to test, during the week and then on weekends, we would be better able to give you some pointers.
Let us know how you feel about these thoughts, ok?
I'm glad you're here.
Hugs
Jane
Angela & Blackie & 3 Others
Member Since 2010
Try a chicken treat (you can make these yourself by either steaming them or boiling them) or other low carb treat after each test and she'll begin to attribute the testing with a reward, and hopefully won't give you as much problem with testing. And, you can also brush her as a reward, too, providing she enjoys being brushed that is.
If you warm the ear up before you insert the lancet, that may help her a bit better. You can use a rice sock warmed up in the microwave, and place it on the ear for a few seconds (rice sock is an old sock with rice, and it's tied at the end). Eventually, and over time as well as considerable amount of testing, the ears will be a bit hard and they won't feel it as much. Blackie hardly ever feels it anymore as we've been doing it for over 2 years.
Martha feels your anxiety about testing her, and with each time you try and test her she senses it, hence it makes her anxious, and lash out. If you can have calmness about you, that may help her. Cats, like dogs and especially horses, are very sensitive to our emotions.
I have to agree with the experts on getting those midcycle tests, though. Without them, you don't know what Martha is doing, and just how low she's going. Not trying to scare you. Only trying to avoid having you go through the same situation that happened to some of us on here, including myself.
Try that rice sock, and the treats and see how she does. It certainly can't hurt. Good luck!
If you warm the ear up before you insert the lancet, that may help her a bit better. You can use a rice sock warmed up in the microwave, and place it on the ear for a few seconds (rice sock is an old sock with rice, and it's tied at the end). Eventually, and over time as well as considerable amount of testing, the ears will be a bit hard and they won't feel it as much. Blackie hardly ever feels it anymore as we've been doing it for over 2 years.
Martha feels your anxiety about testing her, and with each time you try and test her she senses it, hence it makes her anxious, and lash out. If you can have calmness about you, that may help her. Cats, like dogs and especially horses, are very sensitive to our emotions.
I have to agree with the experts on getting those midcycle tests, though. Without them, you don't know what Martha is doing, and just how low she's going. Not trying to scare you. Only trying to avoid having you go through the same situation that happened to some of us on here, including myself.
Try that rice sock, and the treats and see how she does. It certainly can't hurt. Good luck!
Hosanna
Member Since 2012
Martha gets that special treat, freeze dried chicken, each time so she has learned to expect it. I used the warm sock till I learned that rubbing her ear also worked. She had no problem with the testing--She would be napping, for example, and hear me open the strip cannister. She would look up, see what I was doing, and go back to sleep. I learned much from FDMB on how to do the testing. Believe me, she and I were having a great time with it until the time I seemed to be testing her all day.
I'm not saying I'll never do spot checks, not at all. I believe in them!! What I am saying is that, for now, until Martha is okay again with it, I won't put her through it. This is also vet's orders, who has been treating her for the last five years of complex issues and knows Martha. She is a very high-strung cat.
I'm not saying I'll never do spot checks, not at all. I believe in them!! What I am saying is that, for now, until Martha is okay again with it, I won't put her through it. This is also vet's orders, who has been treating her for the last five years of complex issues and knows Martha. She is a very high-strung cat.
With regard to a pet sitter, would one of the vet techs from your vet's office be willing to stop by and give Martha her shots? It's how I found my pet sitter.
You could always post both here and on Health to see if there's anyone in your area that's a member who would be able to give Martha her shot.
You could always post both here and on Health to see if there's anyone in your area that's a member who would be able to give Martha her shot.
Angela & Blackie & 3 Others
Member Since 2010
Hosanna, please post a thread (aka condo) on the board so that the experts can keep an eye on Martha's #s for you, and help you with any issues that they may see.
Please keep in mind that Lantus works best on leveling out #s when the doses are consistently the same. Otherwise, you're going to see constant bouncing that you're currently experiencing with Martha at this time. The experts can help you with the amount of insulin needed for Martha. Just ask them, and they'll help you.
Please keep in mind that Lantus works best on leveling out #s when the doses are consistently the same. Otherwise, you're going to see constant bouncing that you're currently experiencing with Martha at this time. The experts can help you with the amount of insulin needed for Martha. Just ask them, and they'll help you.
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